Should the Pens consider dealing Letang?

[Empoleon8771]

If Bergevin would be willing to deal his 2018 first, plus Galchenyuk and a young defenseman like Mete or Juulsen, I think you have to pull the trigger. Basically, we're talking about the return that Joe Sakic is hoping for in exchange for Matt Duchene

That's a flat out awful trade for the Penguins to make. How is that a good trade?

 

[Gurglesons]

I would love to find out what Marc Bergevin would be willing to give up for Letang.

I know he's a right defenseman and not a left defenseman, and Montreal is clearly in the market for the latter, but Bergevin and Canadiens ownership seem to be on a mission to save face right now. Adding a Montrealer and Stanley Cup winner would be viewed locally as a major coup (NO MATTER what they surrender in return). Also, they have the cap space to pull it off and would also need to spend it to save face with the fans.

If Bergevin would be willing to deal his 2018 first, plus Galchenyuk and a young defenseman like Mete or Juulsen, I think you have to pull the trigger. Basically, we're talking about the return that Joe Sakic is hoping for in exchange for Matt Duchene.

Anything less, and I agree with the notion that Letang's value isn't high enough right now to deal. Wait for him to start playing well again, then see what's out there.

JR is never afraid of the bold trade, and this season he just might have to make one of those.

That trade would likely take us out of playoff contention for the next two years.

 

[HandshakeLine]

And yet, we just won a cup without Letang in the lineup. Unless Letang is single-handedly willing us to the postseason, I guess.

Life is full of mysteries.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Between his wildly inconsistent play and penchant for missing 25 or so games a season, Letang means a lot less to this team than people want to admit. Sure, when he's at his best he's a stellar player, but that's a pretty rare occurrence. This team survived without him and they can do so again if they choose to move him. Not that you want to go through the risk of icing our blueline corps from last playoff on a regular basis--we'd have to restructure the defense a bit for sure, but we'd have a really solid return for Letang to expedite that process or bolster the lineup elsewhere.

Fact is, he's not helping this team win when he's on the shelf with a serious injury or playing like he's been playing. Assuming the return would be solid--and I very much think it would be despite his play and injuries--I think there's a real possibility this team is better having moved the guy.

But it'll never happen. He's got too much tenure for the Pens to even think about it.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

That's a flat out awful trade for the Penguins to make. How is that a good trade?

That trade would likely take us out of playoff contention for the next two years.

Oh really? Geez, you guys have zero faith in the General Manager of 3 Stanley Cup teams.

Adding another first, possibly a lottery pick, gives us the assets needed to add another defenseman. Dropping Letang's cap hit makes the possibility of re-signing Hornqvist (or adding someone like him) far more palatable. Ditto Cole.

Adding Galchenyuk gives us another offensive weapon and drops Sheahan to 4C and McKegg to the press box. That improves the team, whether Galchenyuk centers Line 3 or whether Guentzel does.

A move like this gives JR so many more options.

 

[Gurglesons]

And yet, we just won a cup without Letang in the lineup. Unless Letang is single-handedly willing us to the postseason, I guess.

Life is full of mysteries.

If you think the path to the cup that we took is easily replicated more power to you.

I'm not banking on Crosby and Malkin being in god mode because we have one of the best offensive rosters in the past ten years.

If you didn't notice we lost two main catalysts in that roster as well as defensive depth.

 

[vodeni]

I always thought he's been a bit overrated mostly by PGH hockey media, he had some really highs and real lows, he is excellent in some area of the game and he struggles consistently in others. it always bothered me that he was consider one of the big three: as Sid Geno and Tanger, he is not in that kind of stratosphere, rightfully recognized by the canadien and other american hockey circles.

Having said that, I still think he will turn the corner and be his old Letang wehatever that means, and will be good d-man for us for a few more years...

So no trade, that will never happen...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Oh really? Geez, you guys have zero faith in the General Manager of 3 Stanley Cup teams.

You're not Rutherford. That was a suggestion by you. It's a terrible trade suggestion.

 

[td_ice]

I would love to find out what Marc Bergevin would be willing to give up for Letang.

I know he's a right defenseman and not a left defenseman, and Montreal is clearly in the market for the latter, but Bergevin and Canadiens ownership seem to be on a mission to save face right now. Adding a Montrealer and Stanley Cup winner would be viewed locally as a major coup (NO MATTER what they surrender in return). Also, they have the cap space to pull it off and would also need to spend it to save face with the fans.

If Bergevin would be willing to deal his 2018 first, plus Galchenyuk and a young defenseman like Mete or Juulsen, I think you have to pull the trigger. Basically, we're talking about the return that Joe Sakic is hoping for in exchange for Matt Duchene.

Anything less, and I agree with the notion that Letang's value isn't high enough right now to deal. Wait for him to start playing well again, then see what's out there.

JR is never afraid of the bold trade, and this season he just might have to make one of those.

I love Letang, but yeah, if offered that trade, you gotta pull the trigger. Moot, as GMMB would never offer that. They already have Weber, they don't need another high priced Dmen. And he would be an idiot to offer his 1st round pick, especially when they look like a non playoff team. And after losing Sergachev, who looks like a stud, in the TB deal, I can't see them moving Mete.

 

[Clare2904]

If somehow Letang was gone by the time this comes around, how much would you throw at Doughty in FA?

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Later in his career when he has one or two years left on his deal yes we should. A #1 D adds the assets to keep a team going through its forwards post primes. But right now no, Letang is what Letang is a huge minute crunching prone to mental gaff #1 D and we need him to create a dynasty. The team is worn down right now, they will figure it out, all be it painfully but they will.

 

[Jacob]

I only see Letang being moved for a similarly aged, similarly struggling, similar cap hit d-man. And they'll probably need to be a righty too.

In Montreal that'd be Weber, but no way do I want anything to do with his term.

For now they need to scale back the dude's minutes. He's not playing like a #1 so he shouldn't be given the minutes of a #1. Divide that up amongst Schultz, when healthy, and Maatta, who's been more or less very good.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If you think the path to the cup that we took is easily replicated more power to you.

I'm not banking on Crosby and Malkin being in god mode because we have one of the best offensive rosters in the past ten years.

If you didn't notice we lost two main catalysts in that roster as well as defensive depth.

I mean, I didn't say I was banking on that, so we agree there. I'm saying that Letang is not the absolute lynchpin you and some others are making him out to be, which makes this question fair game.

If Letang really was so absolutely indispensable, we wouldn't have won the Cup. That's the easy part that we can all see. The hard part, and the part that should be the focus of the discussion IMO, is, "IF we were going to move Letang, what would be a reasonable package that would allow us to strengthen the blueline?" That's the discussion we should be having if not now, then maybe in the off-season or next year.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If somehow Letang was gone by the time this comes around, how much would you throw at Doughty in FA?

a bunch. But someone else is likely going to give him more than we can afford even without Letang.

 

[ColePens]

I feel users like Cassius/TTEOT/etc. all stay away until stuff like this happens and than run in, throw gasoline on a fire, and run back away when things return to great.

Why trade the guy at this point? We are 16 games into the season and he's struggling after being off for about 8+ months. He's really struggling. It happens. It even happens to the best of all players. Remember Sid back in 2015? Even the greatest player in the game struggles. Letang is really really really struggling, but let's work through it. There are some things we can do first to help him. Let's limit his minutes, get him off the top powerplay (Schultz), and let him build his confidence slowly.

Ultimately let's revisit this at the end of the season. If, and I would really be shocked, Letang struggles all season and stays at this level - let's revisit the discussion. But I have a feeling we aren't going to need to revisit this. Jussssst a hunch.

 

[Pens x]

I said this summer, and was attacked for it, I didn't think Letang was a bona fide #1 dman anymore. His hockey IQ has always been pretty pathetic. Now he's constantly injured and his contract is tough to accommodate. Trading him would depend on the return, of course. But we don't have any great defense prospects in the system and our D depth is not spectacular. It would be very difficult to make it work.

 

[Peat]

And yet, we just won a cup without Letang in the lineup. Unless Letang is single-handedly willing us to the postseason, I guess.

Life is full of mysteries.

This is a fair point. Letang isn't indispensible.

But an in form Letang is the very next best thing to it and, barring giving up the sun and moon in trade to acquire a very undercosted top 20 dman from someone, the best use of his cap hit for the team as currently constructed.

Now, sure, at some point Letang's ceiling will dip and his in form effort no longer is so good a thing. But the conversation should wait until that's looming large above us, not when its some nebulous thing in the future.

Fair enough to anyone who thinks that Letang's current form represents said day. But I think that those people are mahossively jumping the gun.

Actually - I'd like to add another scenario - if Jultz/Maatta becomes a better dman than Letang's best and we're really cap crunched, you do it. But I'm not holding my breath there.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I said this summer, and was attacked for it, I didn't think Letang was a bona fide #1 dman anymore. His hockey IQ has always been pretty pathetic. Now he's constantly injured and his contract is tough to accommodate. Trading him would depend on the return, of course. But we don't have any great defense prospects in the system and our D depth is not spectacular. It would be very difficult to make it work.

And since this summer you've added what, 15 post injury games to support that claim? Maybe he's not. Maybe this injury has permanently damaged him as a player. But come the f*** on. How long has it been since Letang was in the Conn Smythe discussion? About 15 months? 8 of which he was out with his neck injury. Trying to pat yourself on the back as if you have been proven right is just ridiculous.

 

[ColePens]

I said this summer, and was attacked for it, I didn't think Letang was a bona fide #1 dman anymore. His hockey IQ has always been pretty pathetic. Now he's constantly injured and his contract is tough to accommodate. Trading him would depend on the return, of course. But we don't have any great defense prospects in the system and our D depth is not spectacular. It would be very difficult to make it work.

The classic Pens x comment will be met with the same thing people challenged you and pixies for all summer, yet you cannot come up with an answer. Heck, Emp just challenged you last week and you couldn't provide answers:

Letang w/ health issues, poor play, and a NMC. The league with a salary cap and most teams strapped with spending whether it's internal salary cap space or actual cap space. Who in the world do you trade Letang for? And dont' just say picks/prospects. Salary has to come back. And he has to not have that team on his NMC.

So give me a realistic plan.

 

[Pens x]

The classic Pens x comment will be met with the same thing people challenged you and pixies for all summer, yet you cannot come up with an answer. Heck, Emp just challenged you last week and you couldn't provide answers:

Letang w/ health issues, poor play, and a NMC. The league with a salary cap and most teams strapped with spending whether it's internal salary cap space or actual cap space. Who in the world do you trade Letang for? And dont' just say picks/prospects. Salary has to come back. And he has to not have that team on his NMC.

So give me a realistic plan.

It doesn't make sense to trade Letang. You aren't going to get a sufficient package for him. In a perfect world, you'd trade him. But because of the factors I listed above, he isn't very attractive for other teams unless we give him away as a bargain and retain.

I said in my post it would be difficult to do. I guess you people can't make inferences? I will try to be not clear in my posts.

In summation, we are stuck with Letang.

 

[Lustaf]

Starts and ends with "Doughty/Karlsson hits free agency and wants to sign a nice deal with the Pens."

Ah fantasy.

 

[Peat]

He can be traded to 18 teams to be fair. That's a good whack and once you take out eternal basement dwellers and places he simply doesn't want to live (not that we know any), I think that leaves pretty much the entire league.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Just to remind everyone: The last time Letang played meaningful hockey, he was playing like a top 5 d-man in the league and was 3rd in Conn Smythe voting. Now he's coming back from a serious long term injury. Give him some time. Kris Letang is really freaking good at hockey.

 

[ColePens]

Just to remind everyone: The last time Kris Letang played meaningful hockey, he was playing like a top 5 d-man in the league and was 3rd in Conn Smythe voting. Now he's coming back from a serious long term injury. Give him some time. The guy is really freaking good at hockey.

While we are on the same side in terms of being patient, I disagree with your reasoning. He was great in 2016 while having 2 games where you identify with Bad Letang (ECF Game 5/SCF Game 3). He was God awful in those games. And then his nagging injuries caused him to play so poorly last year that it was actually pretty close to what it looks like right now. Except the Pens were playing much better. But that's legit meaningful hockey.

And yes - this is meaningful hockey, too. I know people want to say it's only October/November, but it is meaningful hockey. Yes, it's more important in March - June, but this isnt' preseason.

 

[Ogrezilla]

While we are on the same side in terms of being patient, I disagree with your reasoning. He was great in 2016 while having 2 games where you identify with Bad Letang (ECF Game 5/SCF Game 3). He was God awful in those games. And then his nagging injuries caused him to play so poorly last year that it was actually pretty close to what it looks like right now. Except the Pens were playing much better. But that's legit meaningful hockey.

And yes - this is meaningful hockey, too. I know people want to say it's only October/November, but it is meaningful hockey. Yes, it's more important in March - June, but this isnt' preseason.

I disagree about him looking near this bad last year. He looked like normal struggling Letang, who was still a solid top pairing d-man. This year he is playing considerably worse than that.

edit: maybe I'm being lax on my definition of meaningful hockey. But still, he's 57 games removed from Conn Smythe contention.