Should the NHL have allowed the use of non-wooden sticks?

JianYang

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Sep 29, 2017
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Yes. Gotta keep some fair consistency throughout the years and eras.

Goals had come down despite the advancement in stick technology.

We also got goaltenders who evolved to become more bulked up, yet the equipment was lighter than before.

The horse is out of the barn now. Theres no going back. This is just another reason why I dont like to compare two guys from different eras. Theres too many variables at play.
 

mrhockey193195

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Nov 14, 2006
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Goals had come down despite the advancement in stick technology.

We also got goaltenders who evolved to become more bulked up, yet the equipment was lighter than before.

The horse is out of the barn now. Theres no going back. This is just another reason why I dont like to compare two guys from different eras. Theres too many variables at play.

You could have restricted the bolded if every NHL player wasn't shooting the puck 90+ mph. It became a figurative arms race, and now there's a legitimate argument that you cannot reduce the size of goalie pads much further due to safety concerns.
 

JianYang

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Sep 29, 2017
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You could have restricted the bolded if every NHL player wasn't shooting the puck 90+ mph. It became a figurative arms race, and now there's a legitimate argument that you cannot reduce the size of goalie pads much further due to safety concerns.

The enlarged goalies actually came before the non wooden sticks though. So I think goaltender intentions were more about covering as much net as possible, rather than safety concerns.

But youre right, with the current sticks, there probably would be claims against safety.

If the league wanted to do something though, the time was even before the non wood sticks came onto the scene. Goalies were pushing the envelope, and the nhl didnt do anything about it.
 

Thenameless

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Apr 29, 2014
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Yes. All other equipment has advanced. Skates, jerseys, helmets, pads, and of course goalie equipment. There's no need to single out the stick, and leave it lagging in advancement.
 
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Amazinmets73

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Dec 1, 2015
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Yes. All other equipment has advanced. Skates, jerseys, helmets, pads, and of course goalie equipment. There's no need to single out the stick, and leave it lagging in advancement.
Fair point. A sport like baseball has little equipment that can be enhanced by modern technology. Yea, gloves and cleats have improved to a degree. However, you could suit a player in gear from 1985 and he'd compete without issue. In hockey no chance
 
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LeBlondeDemon10

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Jul 10, 2010
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Fair point. A sport like baseball has little equipment that can be enhanced by modern technology. Yea, gloves and cleats have improved to a degree. However, you could suit a player in gear from 1985 and he'd compete without issue. In hockey no chance
Generally, I'd agree. However, bats have changed a great deal since the 90's. I don't think they are using ash anymore; I believe its maple. And they make them so light and flimsy now, every player seems to use at least two bats a game. I think part of the homerun surge is due to the quality of the bats, even if they aren't made to last.
 
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The Panther

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Mar 25, 2014
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The difference between hockey sticks and all other forms of equipment, however, is that those other things (shin-pads, masks, helmet, goalie equipment) were never a natural substance, but all sticks were from the 18th century to 1990.
 

tarheelhockey

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This is a really tough question. Composite sticks are a bit like electric guitars... they cover up mistakes and make mediocre players look like stars, but they also provide experiences that otherwise wouldn't exist at all.

I think there are a lot of virtues in seeing the game played with wood sticks, but I'm inclined to say professionals should be using the best equipment available. Ideally amateurs should be using wood, a bit like the reverse of baseball.
 

filinski77

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Feb 12, 2017
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If wooden sticks were still in the NHL, we would most likely see scoring levels decrease below what they were in the DPE.

Any advantage that players have with composite sticks now are matched by equal advancements in goaltending equipment, where a goalie is literally able to stand there and save certain shots that would have went in 40 years ago.

Not to mention that advancements in defence and the structure of the game as well have tilted the game to a disadvantage of scoring anyways.
 
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The Panther

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If wooden sticks were still in the NHL, we would most likely see scoring levels decrease below what they were in the DPE.

Any advantage that players have with composite sticks now are matched by equal advancements in goaltending equipment, where a goalie is literally able to stand there and save certain shots that would have went in 40 years ago.

Not to mention that advancements in defence and the structure of the game as well have tilted the game to a disadvantage of scoring anyways.
That's probably true. My opinion is that I'd rather have the League mandate wooden sticks, but of course it only makes sense if goaltending equipment had also been more limited, but how do you limit something that's artificial to begin with?

The late-90s was a weird period when an increase in goaltender training and athleticism coincided with a big increase in lightness and flexibility of equipment, resulting in the dead-puck era and a lot of average goalies looking dominant.

I almost wonder if it's going too far the other way now, though. Every day I see shots going in the net by stay-at-home defencemen that would have been impossible with wooden sticks. It's not that I would want scoring to go down, but I wonder now if equipment hasn't overly-leveled the playing field between elite and less-than-elite talents (offensively, anyway).
 

filinski77

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Feb 12, 2017
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That's probably true. My opinion is that I'd rather have the League mandate wooden sticks, but of course it only makes sense if goaltending equipment had also been more limited, but how do you limit something that's artificial to begin with?

The late-90s was a weird period when an increase in goaltender training and athleticism coincided with a big increase in lightness and flexibility of equipment, resulting in the dead-puck era and a lot of average goalies looking dominant.

I almost wonder if it's going too far the other way now, though. Every day I see shots going in the net by stay-at-home defencemen that would have been impossible with wooden sticks. It's not that I would want scoring to go down, but I wonder now if equipment hasn't overly-leveled the playing field between elite and less-than-elite talents (offensively, anyway).
Definitely an interesting point of view, I did a quick and dirty quantitative look into goalscoring distribution between players:

20182010200019901980
1st in goals5151587268
10th in goals4135364548
50th in goals2825253030
100th in goals2220192223
200th in goals1413121213
300th in goals99856
400th in goals65522
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

300th and 400th in goals for 90's and 80's are skewed because of less teams, and less players in the league, so a lot of these guys were playing 1/3 of the season, whereas in the last 20 years, 300th and 400th in goals would be playing closer to a full season.

Because of this, I would assume the the scoring of 100th place and lower seem to have remained fairly constant. The big changes come from the top ~50 goalscorers each year, being the top 1-3 (depending on era and # of teams) scorers per team.

I'm not sure that stick technology has helped the 'less-than-elite' players be more effective now than they were 40 years ago. It just seems that the improved goaltending and defensive systems have lowered the offensive output of the elite players in the league.

Just my $0.02, as there are many factors that come to play in this.
 

scott clam

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Sep 12, 2018
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This is a really tough question. Composite sticks are a bit like electric guitars... they cover up mistakes and make mediocre players look like stars, but they also provide experiences that otherwise wouldn't exist at all.

I think there are a lot of virtues in seeing the game played with wood sticks, but I'm inclined to say professionals should be using the best equipment available. Ideally amateurs should be using wood, a bit like the reverse of baseball.
Volume and sustain can be used to compensate for a lack of chops, but if anything it is harder to cover up mistakes when the instrument is amplified.

But with that being siad, I tend to agree with your main point.
 

tabness

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Apr 4, 2014
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It is amazing how much skater equipment has evolved in the last 20 years or so, not just sticks. The nineties was like this period of experimentation but not much actual impact beyond just that (aluminum never got the right feel), but like in the early 2000s these hockey equipment companies started to think of themselves like "technology" companies and all that internal/external rebranding (which really hurts me as someone who absolutely hates technology and yet works in Product in big tech and sees the same sort of crap in my favorite sport lol). All the research and development costs required can easily be passed on to the consumer right?

That Easton Synergy stick that had all its advantages but also felt great to handle the puck was a true game changer.

I think it would have been ideal to set parameters on what sticks could be made of, but as some have called out, goalies were experimenting with all sorts of stuff for a while (masks are the big precursor but then you had all sorts of additions to pads in the eighties and beyond), and there is always the safety aspect with other equipment like skates and pads which can be tagged on to whatever performance benefits are given.
 
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BigBadBruins7708

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Dec 11, 2017
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Las Vegas
I'd argue that if the league mandated wood only when composites first hit the scene there wouldn't be much of a drop now with wood.

What I mean is stick makers would've been forced to innovate and come up with better wood sticks
 

tabness

be a playa
Apr 4, 2014
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I'd argue that if the league mandated wood only when composites first hit the scene there wouldn't be much of a drop now with wood.

What I mean is stick makers would've been forced to innovate and come up with better wood sticks

That's definitely a good point, but I'd figure that there would still be intrinsic limitations with wood in terms of weight and torque and lack of flex and so on that would mean the gains were a lot less drastic than what we see with composites (and I'm no expert in materials science or anything so someone who knows better could add some more insight).

My last stick when I really played as a teenager was this Nike aluminum thing, I thought it was so cool and all that back then. After that in my later teens I just got out of playing hockey a bit. In 2012 I bought my first new hockey stick in ten years (an Easton Mako first generation) and started to play around a bit. At first I was like "nice I got all my skills and shots as I remember them except I'm stronger I guess" and thought the stick was just lighter. Going back to some Sherwood and Louisville wood sticks was an eye opener. You eventually get used to the wood stick again and the muscle memory of how to pass/shoot/handle comes back with it, but there's no doubt these new sticks are something else in raising the skill floor at least (I'm probably not the right person to ask about the skill ceiling but I guess there's a reason all the pros now use them).
 

BigBadBruins7708

Registered User
Dec 11, 2017
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Las Vegas
That's definitely a good point, but I'd figure that there would still be intrinsic limitations with wood in terms of weight and torque and lack of flex and so on that would mean the gains were a lot less drastic than what we see with composites (and I'm no expert in materials science or anything so someone who knows better could add some more insight).

My last stick when I really played as a teenager was this Nike aluminum thing, I thought it was so cool and all that back then. After that in my later teens I just got out of playing hockey a bit. In 2012 I bought my first new hockey stick in ten years (an Easton Mako first generation) and started to play around a bit. At first I was like "nice I got all my skills and shots as I remember them except I'm stronger I guess" and thought the stick was just lighter. Going back to some Sherwood and Louisville wood sticks was an eye opener. You eventually get used to the wood stick again and the muscle memory of how to pass/shoot/handle comes back with it, but there's no doubt these new sticks are something else in raising the skill floor at least (I'm probably not the right person to ask about the skill ceiling but I guess there's a reason all the pros now use them).

Oh there's definitely inherent limits you can't overcome with wood vs composite.

Baseball could have exponentially more HRs if they allowed aluminum bats, but they kept it to wood only

I'll say too that if it was wood sticks only scoring wouldn't drop much. With the speed decrease with wood you remove the argument against smaller pads not having enough protection.

Though I admit I'm more on the traditionalist side of things
 

MadLuke

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
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Because of this, I would assume the the scoring of 100th place and lower seem to have remained fairly constant. The big changes come from the top ~50 goalscorers each year, being the top 1-3 (depending on era and # of teams) scorers per team.
In 1984 there was only 63 first line first power play unit spot.
Now there is 96.

With some defenceman making the cut off, you have enough spot to be all filled by first liners/first PP unit guy now.

In hockey the change on the goaltender side of things equipment wise is so massive versus the equipment available to a pitcher and they do make the ball a bit fly a little longer or shorter over time has well, that it is not necessarily a fair comparable.

Because of this, I would assume the the scoring of 100th place and lower seem to have remained fairly constant. The big changes come from the top ~50 goalscorers each year, being the top 1-3 (depending on era and # of teams) scorers per team.
In 1984 there was only 63 first line first power play unit spot.
Now there is 96.

With some defenceman making the cut off, you have enough spot to be all filled by first liners/first PP unit guy now.

Composite stick did not lead to an out of norm high scoring change and was not an issue after the first couple of season when they were breaking all the time.
 

filinski77

Registered User
Feb 12, 2017
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In 1984 there was only 63 first line first power play unit spot.
Now there is 96.

With some defenceman making the cut off, you have enough spot to be all filled by first liners/first PP unit guy now.

In hockey the change on the goaltender side of things equipment wise is so massive versus the equipment available to a pitcher and they do make the ball a bit fly a little longer or shorter over time has well, that it is not necessarily a fair comparable.


In 1984 there was only 63 first line first power play unit spot.
Now there is 96.

With some defenceman making the cut off, you have enough spot to be all filled by first liners/first PP unit guy now.

Composite stick did not lead to an out of norm high scoring change and was not an issue after the first couple of season when they were breaking all the time.
Why the f*** would you quote my post from 2.5 years ago?
 

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