Should Holland be replaced as GM? (and moved to front office)

[Frk It]

Vote yes or no. You cane explain why if you want (although there is another thread discussing Holland right now).

Just wanted to get a feel for where people stand.

Click to read more...

 

[Ezekial]

Should have already been replaced with Nill or Yzerman. Yes.

Who would replace him? Could they get either of those guys does anyone think?

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Voted no, unless there's someone on the market ryan Martin is going to do the same thing but worse


I do however want him replaced

 

[Dotter]

Voted no because he's an elite GM trying to managing a team on the downswing with ownership that wants the playoff streak to stay alive at all costs.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

The answer was apparent about 4 years ago. The writing was on the wall.

 

[sarcastro]

He's seen what happened to Jimmy D when he took that deal. The only time people realize he's still alive and employed by the team is when he makes his annual dumb as **** newspaper quote.

Holland gets the national fawning he craves, even when he doesn't deserve it. He's not about to give that up.

 

[Flowah]

As much as I criticize his moves, I can't think of a better replacement so it makes no sense to move him.

If someone identifies a replacement and they're actually gettable, sure I'm all for it. Until then at least he's decent at knowing how to draft good middle6 forwards and NHL level bottom4 defensemen. That does count for something.

 

[Henkka]

Should have already been replaced with Nill or Yzerman. Yes.

Who would replace him? Could they get either of those guys does anyone think?

Yzerman proably yes, but definitely not by Nill.

 

[DanZ]

Yzerman proably yes, but definitely not by Nill.

Nill has done a pretty good job in Dallas. Their Cup window is opening.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

As much as I criticize his moves, I can't think of a better replacement so it makes no sense to move him.

Would you take a somewhat less-skilled GM who had a more coherent plan? I.e. a guy who couldn't pull off, say, that crazy Datsyuk trade, but maybe wouldn't do some of the Ken Hollandy things that drive us crazy, like keeping guys around too long? and refusing to trade?

I think I would. All of Ken Holland's smarts aren't worth much when he refuses to use them more than 4-5 times per decade.

 

[Flowah]

Would you take a somewhat less-skilled GM who had a more coherent plan? I.e. a guy who couldn't pull off, say, that crazy Datsyuk trade, but maybe wouldn't do some of the Ken Hollandy things that drive us crazy, like keeping guys around too long? and refusing to trade?

I think I would. All of Ken Holland's smarts aren't worth much when he refuses to use them more than 4-5 times per decade.

I'm not sure how crazy that Datsyuk trade was. Pretty much everyone expected it to happen. They even knew which team it would go to. Good for Holland for managing to do it for pretty cheap but I would not call it "crazy." That seems more as expected than crazy to me.

Here's the problem with going with a GM who doesn't draft as well. One of the big reasons I'm upset with Holland is *we have good pieces to trade with* but he won't do it. A GM who can't draft well won't have those pieces. You can't get anywhere without drafting in today's league. I put far more faith in Holland growing a pair than I do in a GM who can't draft in assembling a contending team.

Literally if Holland just stopped getting so damn attached to his veterans this team would be far, far better. It's not the biggest flaw in the world but it's enough to keep the team mediocre because of all the cascading effects.

I guess that depends though on how much worse at drafting.

 

[Goalie guy]

I say yes the game has passed him by. He does not know how to build a team any longer.

 

[Retire91]

Its too little to late the damage he has done to this team will be felt by an entire generation. The time to move him was when Yzerman was still with the organization. That was the single biggest mistake I have seen the wings make.

 

[Mister Ed]

I say yes, I think the GMs are getting younger and with the younger GMs, comes a different way of doing things. I think there is an aura around him that makes Holland really respected, but his message has become a little stale, even for a supporter like me.

 

[Chance on Chance]

Voted no because he's an elite GM trying to managing a team on the downswing with ownership that wants the playoff streak to stay alive at all costs.

What exactly makes him elite for you? Elite being a top 5 Gm. And can you show me where ownership said keep the streak alive at all cost?

 

[Winger98]

I voted yes because it would be the only clear sign that ownership wants a change in direction. As long as Holland's here, have to figure the mandate is to be just good enough.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

Yes.



Because well common sense.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Definitely Yes.


Why? Because he's taking this team down the wrong path.

 

[Frk It]

As much as I criticize his moves, I can't think of a better replacement so it makes no sense to move him.

If someone identifies a replacement and they're actually gettable, sure I'm all for it. Until then at least he's decent at knowing how to draft good middle6 forwards and NHL level bottom4 defensemen. That does count for something.

I'm not saying this isn't important, but had you heard of Arizona's GM or Florida's GM prior to them being hired? I hadn't, but I like what both have done since taking over so far.

Regarding being "good" at drafting bottom 4 defenseman... Hasn't drafted a middle pairing defenseman since Quincey in 03 and Ericsson in 01, and the two 1st round picks we spent on them most recently were typically scratched watching games in the press box. So not sure I can agree with your usage of 'good' there.

We are, however, fantastic at drafting forwards. Will not begin to try and deny that. TZE has the idea of getting Nashville's scouting director and moving Holland to the front office to still advise on the draft. That is kind of a dream scenario where we can cover the bases, but not sure what Nashville's plans for Fenton are.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

yes

he use to be innovative but he has no new ideas no new ways to think about the game

we need a new voice, new blood in there, someone with their own ideas

maybe that ast down in nashville?

 

[Flowah]

I'm not saying this isn't important, but had you heard of Arizona's GM or Florida's GM prior to them being hired? I hadn't, but I like what both have done since taking over so far.

Sure.

But as of now the only suggested replacement I've even heard of is Ryan Martin or lolngshots like Yzerman/Nill.

I'm open to any suggestions and then some background on them. Just not an open casting call.

 

[Frk It]

Sure.

But as of now the only suggested replacement I've even heard of is Ryan Martin or lolngshots like Yzerman/Nill.

I'm open to any suggestions and then some background on them. Just not an open casting call.

Posted another one in my post, but you edited it out

 

[njx9]

While I disagree with the direction of the team, I don't know that I want Holland canned tomorrow. I mean, imagine if we replaced him with Benning (or similar)? If Yzerman said he'd leave the Lightning tomorrow for a spot with us, then sure, but if it's firing Holland and picking up whoever's available on the street, I don't know that that would really make the team better. That said, I agree with the post that said his firing would be a definite signal from ownership that they want the team to go in a different direction, and I'd really welcome that kind of change.

I guess I'm more in favor of changing ownership (mentality) first, then changing the GM if there's an actual upgrade to be had. And I say that as someone very critical of what Holland's been doing for the last few years.

Edit: oops, just saw it's not firing him, but moving him to the FO. I guess if he still had a heavy hand in drafting, it couldn't really hurt? I'd still not do it just for kicks, but only if there was someone good out there to replace him with.

 

[Eastopia]

Even if I knew a decent alternative I'm not sure I see the point. A new guy (who almost cerainly would be worse at the job) for people to hate and blame because he does what ownership tells him to do? Great.

 

[Retire91]

It might be important to find out if Holland is just following orders from the top. Any insiders? Even if that is the case wouldn't he want to call it a career or move on to a team where he can build the future. I couldn't stand working in a job that made me do the job in such a way that I know wouldn't work. This offseason's signings were a laughing stock.

Illich: we need new players to keep the streak alive I don't care who it is

Holland: How about a couple more bottom 6 forwards for 5-7 years

Illich: good

While I disagree with the direction of the team, I don't know that I want Holland canned tomorrow. I mean, imagine if we replaced him with Benning (or similar)? If Yzerman said he'd leave the Lightning tomorrow for a spot with us, then sure, but if it's firing Holland and picking up whoever's available on the street, I don't know that that would really make the team better. That said, I agree with the post that said his firing would be a definite signal from ownership that they want the team to go in a different direction, and I'd really welcome that kind of change.

I guess I'm more in favor of changing ownership (mentality) first, then changing the GM if there's an actual upgrade to be had. And I say that as someone very critical of what Holland's been doing for the last few years.

Edit: oops, just saw it's not firing him, but moving him to the FO. I guess if he still had a heavy hand in drafting, it couldn't really hurt? I'd still not do it just for kicks, but only if there was someone good out there to replace him with.

Yzerman was the way to go, but at this point taking a chance on someone new would be better than Holland continually singing mediocrity through their late 30's. Shanahan would have been interesting even. Another example of a GM going by while Holland's country club membership ticks onward. Heck I would even try Pier McGuire to get something new going. I think he would die to try a rebuild for an original 6 team.