Should Gardiner be traded prior to the deadline?

[43Kadri43]

faulk is garbage and dermott needs a better partner if he takes 2nd pairing. He will get buried there

I doubt it. Dermott is very, very good.

So is Gardiner, obviously, but I don’t foresee a scenario where the Leafs can afford to keep him

 

[deletethis]

So... we consider lowering the team's chances (considerably IMO) in this year's playoffs for future teams' benefit? How long do we continue this forward? There will always be players departing the team every summer. I really think the actual objective of every NHL team is completely lost to some fans. It's not an asset management game first and an attempt to win a championship a distant second.

Here's where it might make sense: Gardiner is leaving and a couple of younger defensemen have made it abundantly clear that they're almost as good as him. If you think that then by all means make the trade. If you think that isn't true, a GM owes it to the team to provide them with an optimally competitive playoff team every spring within reason.

 

[Notsince67]

I doubt it. Dermott is very, very good.

So is Gardiner, obviously, but I don’t foresee a scenario where the Leafs can afford to keep him

I understand the problem. That being said, I see a likelier situation of Zaitsev being moved in a package. There just isn't the depth to adequately replace him seeing Hainsey is gone too. The leafs need veteran dmen to round out the defensive side and shelter the guys coming up.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Trade Z Johnsson and a 1st for Pesce then. Pesce is better than Z so we upgrade for playoffs and we don't have to carry 3 rooks next season. Gards and Hainsey go in offseason and Rosen and Lilly come up and play 3rd line minutes.
Next year
Rielly Pesce
Dermott Oz
Rosen Lilly
If 2nd pair is not good enough next year then we make another trade on an interim basis to get a UFA on expriring deal.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

We have to strengthen our top pairing guys on D for playoffs

 

[Mugzy97]

Gardiner's a better player and both contracts are expiring. What is Winnipeg adding?

I agree they should add, but it’s not going to be anything significant. Maybe a 3rd?

 

[Drytoast]

Yes.

 

[43Kadri43]

I understand the problem. That being said, I see a likelier situation of Zaitsev being moved in a package. There just isn't the depth to adequately replace him seeing Hainsey is gone too. The leafs need veteran dmen to round out the defensive side and shelter the guys coming up.

I'd certainly consider moving Zaitsev to be the ideal situation; I'm not convinced it's likelier, unfortunately. I don't think teams will be lining up to add his contract

 

[Notsince67]

I'd certainly consider moving Zaitsev to be the ideal situation; I'm not convinced it's likelier, unfortunately. I don't think teams will be lining up to add his contract

They would easily take him on a package deal.

 

[member 157595]

I agree they should add, but it’s not going to be anything significant. Maybe a 3rd?

I'd think about it. I'd probably use the 3rd+ to trade for another rental piece, possibly a depth LHD, if a trade like this were to be offered and accepted.

 

[Fogelhund]

Trade Z Johnsson and a 1st for Pesce then. Pesce is better than Z so we upgrade for playoffs and we don't have to carry 3 rooks next season. Gards and Hainsey go in offseason and Rosen and Lilly come up and play 3rd line minutes.
Next year
Rielly Pesce
Dermott Oz
Rosen Lilly
If 2nd pair is not good enough next year then we make another trade on an interim basis to get a UFA on expriring deal.

Carolina have no need for Z... he would be negative in the trade. Currently they have four RHD on their roster.

I think Lily still needs to work on his game more in the AHL, so I don't see him being ready yet.

------------------------------------

Should Gardiner be moved? If we can obtain a RHD with term, that requires the assets obtained in what is likely a separate deal in moving Gardiner, I have no issue with such a deal. But, we can't just move him out, without a roster replacement of some sort.

 

[Mugzy97]

I'd think about it. I'd probably use the 3rd+ to trade for another rental piece, possibly a depth LHD, if a trade like this were to be offered and accepted.

I think we’re good for depth on the left with Dermott, Borgman, Rosen, Marincin

 

[Trapper]

Trades like these need to be done in the summer.
That Ship has sailed for the 2nd year in a row.

 

[meefer]

If you could trade Gards and improve the current team, yes, you do it. However, that looks to be quite unlikely.
If you could move Zaitsev + and improve the R side, yes, you do that. Also allows for the better chance of signing Gards next year.
You don't trade Gards for picks. This team is a legitimate contender, you try to add, not subtract, in a year where you are a serious contender.

 

[lebdafor norris]

The poll vote numbers are pretty even. Everyone wants to go for the Cup this year but reality is this year is about making a little run in playoffs with a round 1 win and then a balls to the wall round 2 series where we will go head to head with Tampa. Great if we win and get a conference final appearance against a Washington. The likelihood of winning a conference final is pretty low. So that's why getting a reduced RHD defensive asset on lower CAP hit appeals to me. Plus we do not have to rely on 2 rooks next season. Gards + Johnsson to Canes for Pesce.

Rielly Pesce
Dermott Z
Hainsey OZ

The management needs to established a winning culture and trading their 2nd most important Dman will send a bad message to the team, anyone who kept up with the Jays these last 5 years can tell you how players can feel cheated when management shows an unwillingness to commit to winning during the teams' contending years. Gardiner currently has the lowest goals against average this season among the entire Leafs D core despite getting above average second pairing assignment and being the anchor of that pairing. Some of the fans might not appreciate him but judging from Babcock's recent interview he seems to think very highly of Jake and I'm sure his teammates does as well.

 

[zeke]

good Lord leafs fans suck.

 

[BrainyBomber]

Not even a remote chance we can afford 6.5M next season. Add up the numbers it will be way over the CAP. The following season we could but not next year.

He fits just fine under the cap as long as Marleau retires/is moved

 

[93LEAFS]

The management needs to established a winning culture and trading their 2nd most important Dman will send a bad message to the team, anyone who kept up with the Jays these last 5 years can tell you how players can feel cheated when management shows an unwillingness to commit to winning during the teams' contending years. Gardiner currently has the lowest goals against average this season among the entire Leafs D core despite getting above average second pairing assignment and being the anchor of that pairing. Some of the fans might not appreciate him but judging from Babcock's recent interview he seems to think very highly of Jake and I'm sure his teammates does as well.

In the NHL it will be more accepted. The Jays were viewed as cheaping out, I think anyone who plays realize the Leafs spend as much as they possibly can for any competitive advantage (especially guys who played for the Marlies).

Jake seems well liked, and part of the team. He performs well generally.

While, I do think this applies in certain cases (like Wheeler in Winnipeg), I don't think Gardiner is as key a cog or leader in the ownership that letting him move on is slighting him. Now, if they tried to short-change Rielly in 3 years and he is playing at this level or Andersen it may be another story.

 

[lebdafor norris]

In the NHL it will be more accepted. The Jays were viewed as cheaping out, I think anyone who plays realize the Leafs spend as much as they possibly can for any competitive advantage (especially guys who played for the Marlies).

Jake seems well liked, and part of the team. He performs well generally.

While, I do think this applies in certain cases (like Wheeler in Winnipeg), I don't think Gardiner is as key a cog or leader in the ownership that letting him move on is slighting him. Now, if they tried to short-change Rielly in 3 years and he is playing at this level or Andersen it may be another story.

Failing to resign Gards was not what was being discuss thou, but rather trading him right now (with another roster player mind you) before the deadline for an inferior player but one who is signed for more than just this season. I fully expect Gardiner to walk in the offseason due to the Cap but teams with cup aspiration usually don't make trades like that.

As for the Jays, well I don't want to derail the trade but I was actually referring to the 2014 and 2016 seasons when player such as JB and Casey Jansen criticize the management for failing to make the trade for the needed extra bats/arms to propel the team. The player kinda had a point for the 2016 season too, which was the Jays final window to win the coveted WS, except Sharpie made it clear that he didn't want to mortgage the future and it showed when he chose to hold on to his prospects instead of fixing the Jays really weak bench. Once the Jays top line hitters all went to a slump in the ALCS, the dream was over as the the Jays had way to many AAAA quality players on the bench.

 

[93LEAFS]

Failing to resign Gards was not what was being discuss thou, but rather trading him right now (with another roster player mind you) before the deadline for an inferior player but one who is signed for more than just this season. I fully expect Gardiner to walk in the offseason due to the Cap but teams with cup aspiration usually don't make trades like that.

As for the Jays, well I don't want to derail the trade but I was actually referring to the 2014 and 2016 seasons when player such as JB and Casey Jansen criticize the management for failing to make the trade for the needed extra bats/arms to propel the team. The player kinda had a point for the 2016 season too, which was the Jays final window to win the coveted WS, except Sharpie made it clear that he didn't want to mortgage the future and it showed when he chose to hold on to his prospects instead of fixing the Jays really weak bench. Once the Jays top line hitters all went to a slump in the ALCS the dream was over as the the Jays had way to many AAAA quality players on the bench.

Fair enough, I missed the context. In the example of trading him at the TDL for futures, you are absolutely right.

 

[GoldenGOOSE]

No way they trade him. Imo. Too valuable for the playoffs, Tavares didnt come here to have Dubas do stuff like that.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

He fits just fine under the cap as long as Marleau retires/is moved

That may be a challenge but agree I'd rather have Gards even with his brain farts over Marleau who is a HOF passenger now.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The management needs to established a winning culture and trading their 2nd most important Dman will send a bad message to the team, anyone who kept up with the Jays these last 5 years can tell you how players can feel cheated when management shows an unwillingness to commit to winning during the teams' contending years. Gardiner currently has the lowest goals against average this season among the entire Leafs D core despite getting above average second pairing assignment and being the anchor of that pairing. Some of the fans might not appreciate him but judging from Babcock's recent interview he seems to think very highly of Jake and I'm sure his teammates does as well.

It is not about messaging it is about winning. In playoffs guys like Lindstrom, Hedman and Chara go 30 minutes a night. Rielly and Pesce would be expected to play similar in playoffs. 2nd line pair gets 12-15 minutes and 3rd pair gets a few shifts here and there.

 

[Thervguy]

Yes trade him. Too many games he plays defense like he in a beer league game . Out to lunch on a lot of goals against us. Pushed off the puck super easy .Time to let him go.

 

[indigobuffalo]

I suggested this in the Pietrangelo thread but I would do a sign and trade with retention. Sign him at $6.5Mx4 and retain $0.75M so the Blues get a $5.75M x 4 Gardiner and the Leafs get Pietrangelo.