Should Gardiner be traded prior to the deadline?

[Rare Jewel]

There is no way you subtract from this team. Winning at least 1 round is important this season, in my opinion. Even if you don't think we can win the Cup this year, winning a round or 2 will go a long way to make us better. You don't go from losing in the 1st round 3 straight years to straight winning the cup. At least not usually. I am not interested in weakening the team.

Yeah, however if he's not going to be here past this season playing Dermott, Ozhiganov and possibly Rosen more minutes in games down the stretch and in the playoffs may more beneficial to the team.

I don't think trade him for futures, but in a ''hockey'' deal perhaps they may.

 

[Swedish Gretzky]

Why are we helping another contender by downgrading our D while seemingly paying a premium to do so?

I would disagree that overall this is not a downgrade. The right side was targeted due to its relative weakness which was a major factor in the Leafs losing the bruins series.

Furthermore, although pesce is the inferior talent, he is cost controlled for 5 more years at a reasonable price.

Im only using pesce as an illustration

 

[Damisoph]

Only on a real hockey deal that nets us a dman not on an expiring deal.

 

[member 157595]

Eg.
To toronto: Brett Pesce
To Carolina: assets, offense (from Tor and team x)
To team X: Jake gardiner

This is theoretically possible but the particulars are what would likely kill it. Without knowing what Toronto would be giving up it's hard to say whether or not such a trade is worthwhile, and I find a scenario like this highly unlikely.

Adding Pesce improves the right side massively but subtracting Gardiner weakens the left, though I suppose Gardiner leaving for nothing this offseason will weaken the left regardless.

 

[Muston Atthews]

You only trade Gardiner if you’re getting a d man with term that’s as good or better than him. Anything else would be dumb as hell

 

[Judas Tavares]

If its for an upgrade, yes. If its just for picks, no. I hate assets walking but if you are im contention... You just can't give up the player for futures. If you want to do that, you trade a pending ufa the summer before.

 

[Swedish Gretzky]

This is theoretically possible but the particulars are what would likely kill it. Without knowing what Toronto would be giving up it's hard to say whether or not such a trade is worthwhile, and I find a scenario like this highly unlikely.

Adding Pesce improves the right side massively but subtracting Gardiner weakens the left, though I suppose Gardiner leaving for nothing this offseason will weaken the left regardless.

It does weaken the left as u said strengthens the Right - which i think is inevitably what the Leafs will do before the deadline.
Rosen is intriguing prospect who I am i terested in seeing

 

[Mr Hockey]

You only trade Gardiner if you’re getting a d man with term that’s as good or better than him. Anything else would be dumb as hell

why would a GM trade a d'man as good or better that has term for Jake who will be a UFA?

 

[mikeyz]

If they can get a legit RHD for him. Absolutely.

 

[Swedish Gretzky]

If its for an upgrade, yes. If its just for picks, no. I hate assets walking but if you are im contention... You just can't give up the player for futures. If you want to do that, you trade a pending ufa the summer before.

What Im saying is trading gardiner (who is gone anyways) for a controlled rhd by using the haul gardiner nets. Thereby creating more balance to the d overall.

Getting rhd by the deadline is inevitable

 

[Swedish Gretzky]

If they can get a legit RHD for him. Absolutely.

Yes which requires assets. Trading gardiner will help acquiring these assets without overly mortgaging the future. This is my reasoning

 

[Muston Atthews]

why would a GM trade a d'man as good or better that has term for Jake who will be a UFA?

I’m not saying it would happen. I’m saying that’s the only way I’d trade him

 

[Swedish Gretzky]

why would a GM trade a d'man as good or better that has term for Jake who will be a UFA?

It would habe to be a mutiteam trade. Ie. 3 way trade

Eg.
To toronto: Brett Pesce
To Carolina: assets, offense (from Tor and team x) To team X: Jake gardiner

 

[Randy Randerson]

I'd prefer to trade him than lose him for nothing in the summer, but he's only due for about a $1.5M raise so if we can bring him back on a 5x$5.75M term I think that fits in our cap plan so that might be the best plan. It would be nice to know if one of Rielly/Gardiner/Dermott can play the right side effectively before we make that decision, and know for sure that Dermott can handle top 4 mins well

 

[member 157595]

It does weaken the left as u said strengthens the Right - which i think is inevitably what the Leafs will do before the deadline.
Rosen is intriguing prospect who I am i terested in seeing

If you're either confident Dermott can handle Top 4 duties in the playoffs (I really like him but definitely not sure about this yet) or that you can make a buyer's move for a good/decent LHD with an expiring contract like Gardiner (therein lies the problem) or both, then

Rielly-Pesce
Dermott/TD pickup - Zaitsev
TD pickup/Dermott/other - Hainsey/Oz
Oz/Hainsey

is certainly better than the Leafs' current defensive lineup. But the moment we move Gardiner we are counting on either Dermott handling Top 4 duties against the best of the best or us acquiring another LHD on an expiring contract. It's a bit of cutting off our nose to spite our face.

 

[Mugzy97]

Trade him for Tyler Myers

 

[member 157595]

Trade him for Tyler Myers

Gardiner's a better player and both contracts are expiring. What is Winnipeg adding?

 

[Swedish Gretzky]

If you're either confident Dermott can handle Top 4 duties in the playoffs (I really like him but definitely not sure about this yet) or that you can make a buyer's move for a good/decent LHD with an expiring contract like Gardiner (therein lies the problem) or both, then

Rielly-Pesce
Dermott/TD pickup - Zaitsev
TD pickup/Dermott/other - Hainsey/Oz
Oz/Hainsey

is certainly better than the Leafs' current defensive lineup. But the moment we move Gardiner we are counting on either Dermott handling Top 4 duties against the best of the best or us acquiring another LHD on an expiring contract. It's a bit of cutting off our nose to spite our face.

I've seen enough of Dermott - im a huge fan. he does have his terrible rookie lapses but the overall positives he brings substantially outweighs the risk. I think he is becoming a stud. Top 4 material right now

 

[qqaz]

The Chicago model says to extend the player, even if it is a bit too expensive, and then trade them a bit down the line for an average return.

The problem for us now is that we can't afford Gardiner already by next season. So an extension is highly unlikely. So he either gets traded or walks. You can't cut the team off at the knees by liquidating a good player before a cup run, so he won't be traded for picks.

That leaves only 2 realistic options, from what I can see. (1) Keep him for the playoffs and then let him walk. (2) Trade him in a hockey trade that improves the team now. Option 1 or 2 are fine by me.

 

[4thline]

Zero percent change they move him for futures.
.

I see your zero and raise you to 0.5, in under the extremely unlikely scenario that we make a futures deal for a rental+1 and use Gardiner to recoup assets, shifting money from left to right and gaining a cost controlled year that fits for next year.

ex.

Gardiner for futures
futures for Spurgeon

Bonus round
Brown for Pysyk

 

[Loosie]

Nope. Just like last year with our pending UFAs we are no longer sellers at this point, this is the time we lose UFAs for nothing.

 

[Swedish Gretzky]

Nope. Just like last year with our pending UFAs we are no longer sellers at this point, this is the time we lose UFAs for nothing.

And how did that end up?

 

[ShaneFalco]

And how did that end up?

it's a good point. lou gambled by keeping them and lost.
If the Leafs go out again early this year, I will view this as a lost gamble too

 

[Budz]

This own rental thing is terrible asset management. Jake is not as bad as the fanbase makes him out. If I am GM - I try to sign him cheap until the deadline (while explaining to him he will be dealt at the deadline if a contract cannot be signed) , if a contract is not for Jake then you trade him for parts needed to complete a separate trade to acquire another D man.
It's a 2 part process.
1- Jake goes for picks/prospects (Not for established D men competing teams aren't going to deplete their roster).
2. Use these picks or prospects + already existing parts to complete a trade for a #2-4 Dman.

This is what should have been done with JVR as well.

 

[Brown Dog]

Really would like to see Dubas sign Gards to an 8yr extension and try to save on the cap by offering term. Move Zaitsev out with retention or picks to sweeten the pot to create the cap space.