So trade our 2nd best defenseman at the trade Deadline?
Are we giving up on the season because that's what that move signifies
Are we giving up on the season because that's what that move signifies
Should Gardiner be traded prior to the deadline?
- Thread starter Swedish Gretzky
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SeaOfBlue
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TBH, neither is Gardiner... So I guess we have the same issue.
Dermott would not need to suddenly play 22 minutes a night, since the Leafs would clearly acquire a replacement for Gardiner if he was traded. That person alone would probably be able to take over most, if not all, of Gardiner's ice time and be a better defensive player no less.
If you see any difference in Dermott's TOI, it is because he enters the top 4 in place of Hainsey and takes away some of his minutes. Hainsey plays almost 20 minutes a night while Dermott plays 17.5. You may see that swap if Babcock thinks Dermott is ready to play with Zaitsev in the top 4. However, Dermott's extra minutes would be mostly be Gardiner's cushy offensive minutes as second fiddle to Rielly, while Hainsey would likely lose tougher defensive minutes that would get split between the new guy and Zaitsev.
SeaOfBlue
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Not if they acquire another top 4 defenseman at the same time. Nobody should be suggesting moving out Gardiner for futures and then sitting on our hands like we are sellers. However if trading Gardiner makes us a better team, then do it 100%.
Being a rental on a competitive team should not make you untouchable, especially if you are a liability. That is such an old-school mindset that will hinders your chances of winning.
i utterly disagree , as we have seen again most top teams they have played this season that they are close but still need one more year of "man growth/manning up" call it what you want.
BUT marners and mattys contract demands are going to totally gut this situation. Hell marner wanted 9m per after a 69 point season.
We are totally and utterly cap screwed, the franchise has to take a step back, load up on futures and think about the next steps.
Best i can tell Gards and willy are long long gone, due to mattys/marns contract demands.
He's our 2nd best defenseman by plenty, the chances of trading him and getting somebody better are miniscule
We're either adding to the defensive group with him still in it or were giving up on going deep this playoffs, there is no third option
We've got Zaitsev still on the team and people want to trade Gardiner, you lot must be out of your God damned minds, why not try stretching your minds to getting rid of that liability first
zeke
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you're right, he wouldn't be 2nd best on a bunch of other teams, he'd be 1st best.
Atomos2
Registered User
At his age, to make the stupid mistakes that he does, he would be a poor on-ice role model for Liljegren. He just is what he is. I honestly don’t care what we do with him before the year is done but I’m completely ok with not bringing him back.
We’ve given him plenty of opportunities to be something special. We’ve seen the best and the worst of him. My preference would be to shelter him on the bottom pair and say goodbye at the end of the season.
We’ve given him plenty of opportunities to be something special. We’ve seen the best and the worst of him. My preference would be to shelter him on the bottom pair and say goodbye at the end of the season.
Keep him through the deadline but dont resign him unless he takes a big discount. I think I'm fine with a Rielly, Dermott, Sandin left side next season.
DarkKnight
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Jake is the last player that was part of both Boston debacles. Those two traumatic experiences are in his psyche no question about it. I looks like we are facing Boston, I'm not counting on Gardiner at all, he's "seen too much", he's damaged goods. Might be wise to consider moving him, he is not an asset in the first round he's a big time concern and he could well cost us the series. Last night was reality, not a blip.
TheGroceryStick
Registered User
Trading Gardiner would be a power move.
.. a playoff contender moving their 2nd best (by association) Dman...mid season.
I don't mind Gardiner most nights.....but is he ever the blunder machine, when under pressure.
Change of scenery
Gardiner + Kadri + Bracco
For
Faulk + Ferland + Fleury
.. a playoff contender moving their 2nd best (by association) Dman...mid season.
I don't mind Gardiner most nights.....but is he ever the blunder machine, when under pressure.
Change of scenery
Gardiner + Kadri + Bracco
For
Faulk + Ferland + Fleury
I agree that the cap situation is going to change drastically this summer and that Gardiner is likely not here next season. However, I believe this team needs to take a shot at going for it all now before they have to lock up Marner and Matthews and are restricted by the cap. Winning teams don't sell. You'll see a player walk every year that we could have received and asset for. Like JVR last year. That's just how good teams operate in the cap world.
What's the point in building such a talented core if you want to put off trying to actually win the Cup? Teams are generally not perennial Cup contenders. The Leafs have a shot if they add a piece or two to their lineup. They owe it to everyone in that room and their fans to go for it.
As to your point about some players needing to go, I believe that the guys on their way out are Gardiner, Marleau, Brown and Zaitsev. These guys will need to be replaced by guys on ELC's or cheaper contracts. Grundstrom, Marchment, Sandin and Rosen all likely make the squad next season if those guys are moved.
justafan22
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You're actively hurting the team if you trade Gardiner for futures. I'm leaning towards not wanting to keep him, but he's the 2nd best dman this team has. If he's gone, one of Marincin or Rosen will be playing regular minutes in the top 6.
I agree completely. There is no way management is even considering selling assets at this point. This team's a buyer.
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Good teams keep their UFA guys for their playoff runs. That's what they did with Bozak and JVR.
The reality is that Gardiner if moved is netting futures.
Who would the Leafs realistically get if they moved Gardiner for futures and then used either those futures or some of their own futures to get another Dman?
Interesting that Friedman said during the 2nd intermission that he thinks there are a lot of sellers, but he thinks it is a buyers market unless it's a game changing player.
Look at who the contending teams are out west:
Nashville - not adding D, would likely look for forwards
Winnipeg - could use a LHD
Dallas - are they going to make that push this year?
Colorado - are they going to make that push as well?
Calgary - no need to add D
SJ - no need to add D
Vegas - not sure what they are willing to add
Anaheim - not adding D
TB - Don't see them adding LHD
Bos - no, not happening
Pit/Was/Cbs - Probably Pitt out of that group would want D. Other 2 would go for Depth D
then you have NYI/Mon/Buf - what would they really want to add?
Those teams could simply go and acquire the Dman that the Leafs would want rather than go through Toronto unless they are short a puck mover. If teams are choosing between a Gardiner or say an Edler, they would decide which type of Dman would best fit their club.
Swedish Gretzky
Registered User
BlueBaron
Registered User
Was thinking the same. Go all in on Petro and then flip Jake but we have the Cap we would probably keep both and let Jake walk in summer.
Dumb thread. We need him and should try to sign him to an extension. With his recent "struggles" it will help with negotiations.
robertmac43
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Trading him would be an absolutely terrible move for the Leafs at this time. You will not get something better back at him and for all the blunders he has, Jake also supplies some great moments.
SeaOfBlue
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Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Duffman955
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This is getting ridiculous
Gardiner is at the very least a top 4 dman
We need to add defnesmen not subract
Gardiner is at the very least a top 4 dman
We need to add defnesmen not subract
barilko05
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I think many people's frustration with Jake (mine especially) is you just don't know which one is going to show up on a given night. When he's on, he's a smooth, fast skating offensive D who can back the other team off allowing great zone entry. Good passer too, (for the most part). Those GD stretch passes drive me nuts, but that's more on the system than on him.
But when he's off...he's hesitant in D zone, prone to giveaways, soft, and easily pressured, which leads to making bonehead plays with the puck.
He's not going to change and suddenly "figure it out". It's too late for that. He is what he is. Jekyll and Hyde.
He's on the last year of his contract...and he's probably going to want too much to resign. Even at a discount (less than 6) he's just not worth the aggravation any more. You can't count on him to be consistent. So what is the point in keeping him past the deadline? I don't believe we're quite ready to contend this year, so his presence (or lack thereof) in the playoffs is probably going to be a moot point anyway. Just like keeping JVR and Bozak was ultimately an exercise in futility and cost us some valuable picks and/or prospects that we could have used to keep the Marlies re-stocked as cap dollars become few and far between.
But what about his offence? I believe that can be absorbed by whoever his replacement(s) are NEXT YEAR.
Let's cut the cord and move on.
It may be a bold move to dump a top 4 D before the playoffs, but as they say...fortune favours the bold.
But when he's off...he's hesitant in D zone, prone to giveaways, soft, and easily pressured, which leads to making bonehead plays with the puck.
He's not going to change and suddenly "figure it out". It's too late for that. He is what he is. Jekyll and Hyde.
He's on the last year of his contract...and he's probably going to want too much to resign. Even at a discount (less than 6) he's just not worth the aggravation any more. You can't count on him to be consistent. So what is the point in keeping him past the deadline? I don't believe we're quite ready to contend this year, so his presence (or lack thereof) in the playoffs is probably going to be a moot point anyway. Just like keeping JVR and Bozak was ultimately an exercise in futility and cost us some valuable picks and/or prospects that we could have used to keep the Marlies re-stocked as cap dollars become few and far between.
But what about his offence? I believe that can be absorbed by whoever his replacement(s) are NEXT YEAR.
Let's cut the cord and move on.
It may be a bold move to dump a top 4 D before the playoffs, but as they say...fortune favours the bold.
I would move Gardiner for someone who can play better defensively, or someone with a bigtime shot (the lack of which has made our PP and zone control predictable and stale.) I'd even bundle a pick with him for a guy who could do both of those things well.
Who ever this player is must also be effective at making simple zone exit passes. A quality which is not rare in the NHL but that we've severed lacked for too damn long.
People hate to hear it, but like with JVR and Bozak there is an element of addition by subtraction with non-competitive, defensive liabilities like Gards.
Who ever this player is must also be effective at making simple zone exit passes. A quality which is not rare in the NHL but that we've severed lacked for too damn long.
People hate to hear it, but like with JVR and Bozak there is an element of addition by subtraction with non-competitive, defensive liabilities like Gards.
