Should Crosby Still be #1?

[illogic]

I think with these two even if you cut off one of their toes they still would be in the top ten scoring.

 

[BigE]

He's the 3rd best rookie of the world

He's also the youngest. Ovechkin in the NHL at 18 wouldn't hold a candle to Crosby.

 

[BigE]

Echoing what others have said, Crosby does still deserve to be #1. And that's simply because these are prospect rankings and not Calder rankings. I think Crosby's the 3rd best rookie this year, but as far as prospect rankings go, I'd be willing to bet that 2 years from now, Crosby will be better than Ovechkin is right now, just as I'd be willing to bet that Crosby is better now than Ovechkin was 2 years ago.

Edit: However, I do think that while they are technically considered rookies by HF's criteria, I think it's still rather silly to consider most of these guys prospects if they've already secured a permanent spot in the NHL.

A voice of reason. Nice points.

 

[Mr.Brownov*]

Ovechkin and Malkin are both a good deal older than Crosby, especially Ovechkin. He was ready for the NHL in '03, so he probably won't get TOO much better than he already is. Crosby, as much a spoiled, whimpering brat as he shown tgo be, has miles higher to go, and you can see it in his play.

I'm starting to believe Malkin might be even better than Ovechkin in the long run. Crosby beats them both combined.

A good deal older? By 1 and 2 years? And because Ovechkin joined the NHL in 05/06 instead of 03, you believe that would stunt his development and or has already reaached his potential? And Crosby better than both combined? No wait I was looking for this one

 

[Mr.Brownov*]

He's also the youngest. Ovechkin in the NHL at 18 wouldn't hold a candle to Crosby.

Ya whatever chief. Nice avatar

 

[Winston Wolf]

Hmm, let's see, when was the last time an 18 year old was in the top 10 in scoring after two thirds (roughly) of the season?

I don't know, but Crosby is tied for 11th.

 

[Form and Substance]

A good deal older? By 1 and 2 years? And because Ovechkin joined the NHL in 05/06 instead of 03, you believe that would stunt his development and or has already reaached his potential? And Crosby better than both combined? No wait I was looking for this one

There's a big BIG difference between stepping in the NHL at 18 and stepping in at 20. But that's just flogging a dead horse.

 

[CCCR]

Ovechkin and Malkin are both a good deal older than Crosby, especially Ovechkin. He was ready for the NHL in '03, so he probably won't get TOO much better than he already is. Crosby, as much a spoiled, whimpering brat as he shown tgo be, has miles higher to go, and you can see it in his play.

I'm starting to believe Malkin might be even better than Ovechkin in the long run. Crosby beats them both combined.

are you mantaly ill???? cause I think you are. you should see your doctor.
Beats them both combined.. mmm well how can he beat them both combined if AO is better then SC.
And Malkin is only a year older. wow is that a lot?
i would like to star a poll ( who is #1 AO or SC, but only canedians, russians and us cannot participate.) (well i will not start a poll like that cause i think a lot of SC fans will get disapointed )

 

[espo*]

i don't think either Crosby or Ovechkin are prospects anymore,they are already stars honestly.They were'nt prospects anymore the minute they stepped on NHL ice.But if they were still considered prospects i would'nt hesitate having Crosby in the number one spot and Ovechkin number two.

I think Crosby will end up being the better player,18 years old and this good already?scary folks,plain and simple.Enjoy your run of top spot hype Alexander,it's going to end in a few years when Crosby is acknowledged as the superior player of you two.

 

[Evilo]

are you mantaly ill???? cause I think you are. you should see your doctor.
Beats them both combined.. mmm well how can he beat them both combined if AO is better then SC.
And Malkin is only a year older. wow is that a lot?
i would like to star a poll ( who is #1 AO or SC, but only canedians, russians and us cannot participate.) (well i will not start a poll like that cause i think a lot of SC fans will get disapointed )

I'm not sure you're in position to call anyone mentally ill.
Crosby can be considered as a better prospect than Ovechkin without it being anything outrageous. He's 18 and producing around the same numbers as Ovechkin while being younger. There's no reason to believe Crosby will be second to anyone in this league in the next 15 years.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

are you mantaly ill???? cause I think you are. you should see your doctor.
Beats them both combined.. mmm well how can he beat them both combined if AO is better then SC.
And Malkin is only a year older. wow is that a lot?
i would like to star a poll ( who is #1 AO or SC, but only canedians, russians and us cannot participate.) (well i will not start a poll like that cause i think a lot of SC fans will get disapointed )

This may be the post of the thread. The imagery is wonderful. Congratualtions Sir.


As for polls on HF, it almost depends what week you take them, the visitors to this board are more fickle than a pre-teen girl who has a crush on a teen idol. Usually does not last long before they move on to the next teen idol. Almost comical really. I love Fleury, I would not give a 6th rd. pick for him, I love him again and Lehtonen is over-rated. Oh, he is over his injury, well Lehtonen is my absolute Fav now. Parrrrrrr-eeee-seeee! Where is the love for Svatos? Ahhh, he fell into third by 15 points, what did I ever see in him? . . . and on and on.

Ovechkin right now spins gold out of his rear on these boards. In his case it is the real deal (ability, not the gold part) but even he will come down to earth some and the 'Ovechkin >>>>> better than Jagr and Forsberg combined' threads will stop as the fickle creatures on this board find a new darling and new demon. Usually someone who is not yet in the NHL yet or even drafted. Fantasy is always better than reality could ever be you know. But have your little poll here. We all know how really meaningless that poll would be.

 

[HockeyCritter]

Nope ----- he's graduated.

 

[Metallian*]

He's also the youngest. Ovechkin in the NHL at 18 wouldn't hold a candle to Crosby.

we'll never know that

 

[CCCR]

I'm not sure you're in position to call anyone mentally ill.
Crosby can be considered as a better prospect than Ovechkin without it being anything outrageous. He's 18 and producing around the same numbers as Ovechkin while being younger. There's no reason to believe Crosby will be second to anyone in this league in the next 15 years.

you did not get me ( he said that SC is better than both AO and malkin,) and that is way I wrote that he might be ill. and about SC being better then AO, we can only see, not now but later in 2 to 3 years from now.

 

[mytor4*]

Ovechkin and Malkin are both a good deal older than Crosby, especially Ovechkin. He was ready for the NHL in '03, so he probably won't get TOO much better than he already is. Crosby, as much a spoiled, whimpering brat as he shown tgo be, has miles higher to go, and you can see it in his play.

I'm starting to believe Malkin might be even better than Ovechkin in the long run. Crosby beats them both combined.

on ovechkin
[so he probably won't get TOO much better than he already is.]


hahahahahaha can you imagine 20 yrs old and he has already hit his prime. guess it' time to trade the oldtimer. what a ???? quote

 

[Atlas]

on ovechkin
[so he probably won't get TOO much better than he already is.]


hahahahahaha can you imagine 20 yrs old and he has already hit his prime. guess it' time to trade the oldtimer. what a ???? quote

Yeah, and not only that, AO has been playing with scrubs on the power play all year long. Imagine what he'll do when he has a little bit of help.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

on ovechkin
[so he probably won't get TOO much better than he already is.]


hahahahahaha can you imagine 20 yrs old and he has already hit his prime. guess it' time to trade the oldtimer. what a ???? quote

Of course he will get better. You all miss the point though. Think a bell curve. If you tracked the average players increase in stats, ability, etc. during his career there would be a much bigger vertical incline upward between 18 and 20, because of mostly physical, but also mental, maturation than there would be during any other period of a players' career. Not for all but for almost all. This trancends all sports just about, which is why so many 18 year old phenom basketball players for instance crap out. Why the baseball draft and hockey drafts are much more of a crap shoot than in football where you draft players who are coming out of college, about Ovechkin's age actually. So Ovechkin is further up on the curve for the average player. Just is common sense that while both players will grow, likely peaking late 20's, Crosby has the potential to grow more if he follows the average path. Now was that so hard to follow? You may argue that there is no guarentee, Crosby may be that freak who is a 20 year old equivilent at 18. But then you can not argue how childish he has been this year and that it had no effect on him like you all did can you? Can't have it both ways. In any event hopefully this explained the argument in a way that you all can grasp.

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

Ya whatever chief. Nice avatar

Well, he's right.

An 18 year old AO wouldn't have nearly as much success as Crosby is having.

Hug for nut if you must though.

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

we'll never know that

And we'll never know if AO would score more than Crosby with better players or if Crosby would score more on the Caps etc...

Yet these are always used as crutches by AO supporters so... Why is it any different? His point is as valid as anyone saying that AO would od better with better players.

 

[jd84]

It is certainly debatable. Does Crosby deserve the #1 spot? I certainly think so. He is only 18 plus Ovechkin has played in a pro league before the NHL therefore has more experience. Crosby has had to deal with alot of pressure unlike Ovechkin. He has to carry the PEns organization on his shoulder. I have no doubt in my mind Ovechkin is probably the future of the caps but he isnt being burdened with it. Ovechkin is also a very good player and watching him prooves it. For me it is very hard to decide. If i could I would give them both the 1st spot. Good luck to the people who have to decide this. It is going to be a difficult task.

 

[jd84]

And we'll never know if AO would score more than Crosby with better players or if Crosby would score more on the Caps etc...

Yet these are always used as crutches by AO supporters so... Why is it any different? His point is as valid as anyone saying that AO would od better with better players.

Scoring is not the only issue at hand. It has alot to do with defensive play, and alot of other things. Crosby may be surrounded by better players although they haven't been that impressive. If they were then the pens wouldnt be so far behind in the standings. It shows that there isnt a team effort and alot of those big named players havent shown that team play. And not to take anything away from Ovechkin. I just dont think it is fair when people discredit crosby's skill because of the players he is surrounded by. Both are very good.

 

[God Bless Canada]

The cut-off for the HF Boards top 50 is somewhere around 60-65 games. It used to be 25 games (a more sensical number, and the number I use for my own system), but they changed it a couple years ago. Not that I'm complaining or anything.

Is Ovechkin the better player right now? Yes. Will he be a better player in three years? Probably. But the age difference is a very big deal. Crosby is better now than Ovechkin was two years ago. He'll be better in two years than Ovechkin is now. In five or six years, once the age difference is less of a factor, Crosby will be a better player, therefore he should be No. 1.

Crosby's having the best season for a true 18-year-old rookie (a player who spends his entire rookie year in the NHL as an 18-year-old) since Dale Hawerchuk in 1982.

As hockey fans, it'll be fun to watch Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin dominate for years to come.

 

[PatrickRoy]

Does this ever end????
I mean how many different ways can you hash, hide and rediscuss the same damn thread.
Ovechkin or Crosby
Crosby or Ovechkin

Talk about being mental

 

[Janney17]

An 18 year old, with no pressure at all, can't imagine the knowledge of being the replacement player for one of the best players to ever play the game would affect him too much. He also plays for a team in turmoil right now with players playing for themselves so that they can be traded and play on a contending team. He's lost a coach, Lemieux, Palffy, the team itself might not stay in Pittsburgh, players want to be traded, the team can't play together at all etc....... Plus, this kid is under a microscope and although he cracks under the pressure sometimes, he has proved that he can handle it quite well for a kid his age.

As for Ovechkin, I've seen this guy show immaturity many a time at the WJC's over the past years and his one year of pro last year helped him to mature alot. Ovechkin plays on a team with a more care free attitude that has all accepted Ovechkin is the goto guy and they play more as a team despite their lack of skill. Also Ovechkin's only pressure this year is to score and be exciting that's it. Washington was never expected to win this year so Ovechkin pretty much has total freedom to play his own game on the ice with no repercussions whatsoever.

What Crosby is going through now is what some even more respected players have folded under. (Thornton and Lecavalier come to mind) So as far as prospects go he is the #1 guy but when it comes to the Calder Ovechkin is #1 but not by much IMO. As for Malkin even being considered in the same category as these two before he even plays an NHL game), he himself summed it up best through his agent when he said he'll play as a rookie next year because he has a better chance of winning the Calder Trophy

 

[NYR469]

According to the hockey news, future watch edition, ovechkin and crosby are no longer considered prospects, their lists were compiled in late november and early december.

the cutoff for who is considered a prospect is completely arbitrary and the criteria that THN uses has absolutely nothing to do with the criteria that HF uses...

THN took them out of consideration because they are 'established nhlers' already, but in the new HF rankings released so far (11-50) that list includes svatos, parise, meszaros, steen, richards, prucha, whitney, etc that are all currently in the nhl and don't qualify by THN standards, but if those guys qualify by HF standards then so will crosby, ovechkin, phaneuf, lundqvist, lehtonen, vanek and carter.