Should Burke be given one extra year to redeem himself?

[Bomber0104]

I guess that means Jay Feaster is doing a bang up job in Calgary right hockeyfanz?

 

[veedubn1]

Burke isn't perfect but I definitely support him. This team finally has a farm system (watching the Marlies beat up Chicago's farm team atm) and I feel we're headed in the right direction.

After the recent WJC's I'm hoping we've heard the end of the "Burke only likes Americans" comments... by the looks of that squad we could probably use a couple more of them.

 

[Bomber0104]

Burke isn't perfect but I definitely support him. This team finally has a farm system (watching the Marlies beat up Chicago's farm team atm) and I feel we're headed in the right direction.

After the recent WJC's I'm hoping we've heard the end of the "Burke only likes Americans" comments... by the looks of that squad we could probably use a couple more of them.

Remember when the Bulldogs (Montreal) won the Calder years ago?

Yeah well...Montreal finished third last this past season....

 

[hockeyfanz*]

I guess that means Jay Feaster is doing a bang up job in Calgary right hockeyfanz?

Yeah....Burke is closer to Feaster than Torrey or Pollock

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Remember when the Bulldogs (Montreal) won the Calder years ago?

Yeah well...Montreal finished third last this past season....

Bingo...and The Caps farm team have been a powerhouse in the AHL in the last decade..look at how that has translated to the parent club. Not exactly playoff juggernauts..

 

[4evaBlue]

Remember when the Bulldogs (Montreal) won the Calder years ago?

Yeah well...Montreal finished third last this past season....

Look at who the main contributors to their success were. Career AHLrs or NHL prospects?

 

[colchar]

Bingo...and The Caps farm team have been a powerhouse in the AHL in the last decade..look at how that has translated to the parent club. Not exactly playoff juggernauts..

The Montreal farm system has contributed to the NHL team. Hell, Price was the goalie when they last won the Calder.

The bottom line is that the Leafs organization is in far better shape now than it was when Burke arrived. The NHL team was decent last year until their unprecedented collapse which can be blamed as much on coaching as anything else. If they had had a goalie with more NHL experience it is highly likely that he could have stopped that slide. If they get a goalie for this year then they will be fine - they even finished 10th in the league in scoring last year and how long has it been since the Leafs could say that?

 

[Bomber0104]

Look at who the main contributors to their success were. Career AHLrs or NHL prospects?

Carey Price.

I saw the whole Calder Cup playoffs. Trust me, it was all Price.

 

[Bomber0104]

The Montreal farm system has contributed to the NHL team. Hell, Price was the goalie when they last won the Calder.

He was the only reason they won. And with him in net in the NHL, they were 3rd last this past season.

The bottom line is that the Leafs organization is in far better shape now than it was when Burke arrived. The NHL team was decent last year until their unprecedented collapse which can be blamed as much on coaching as anything else.

I respect your opinion but all facts and metrics support the Leafs being in worse shape then when Burke took over the team.

The team finished 5th last...there's no other way to describe the season. 5th last is where they finished. And this is worse than the 7th last placed team Burke took over.

If they had had a goalie with more NHL experience it is highly likely that he could have stopped that slide. If they get a goalie for this year then they will be fine - they even finished 10th in the league in scoring last year and how long has it been since the Leafs could say that?

Maybe they could, maybe they couldn't. Montreal had Price (fantastic goalie) and they couldn't do much.

Luongo might change the dynamic of the team but they will still be hard pressed to make the playoffs in my opinion.

When Burke took over I believe they scored as many goals if not more if I recall the Disgruntled Observor's post correctly which basically summarized all the hard facts.

 

[4evaBlue]

Carey Price.

I saw the whole Calder Cup playoffs. Trust me, it was all Price.

He can't score any goals. Apparently some scrub called Corey Locke went a PPG for those playoffs.

 

[Bomber0104]

He can't score any goals. Apparently some scrub called Corey Locke went a PPG for those playoffs.

And how did Corey do in the NHL?

 

[FelixPotvin29]

Look at who the main contributors to their success were. Career AHLrs or NHL prospects?

bingo.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

I'm of the opinion that Bryan Murray build the Duck team that won the cup, sure Burke got a couple of stud defensemen to come to Anaheim, 1 to play with his brother (not a very hard sell) and another who's wife didn't like the Alberta winters. Other than that what exactly did Burke do?

Burke changed 100% of Murray's team so I don't get how you could say Murray built the cup winner. Burke how to undo a lot of Murray's blunders like dumping Federov's terrible contract.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Murray drafted Perry, Getzlaf, Lupul (traded for Pronger)

Signed Niedermayer (Rob) who was the reason for Scott signing.

Brian Burke had a big part in signing the supporting pieces but the bulk of the team's success in the playoffs was largely due to the pieces that were already there (Perry, Getzlaf, Lupul, Rob Nied, Giguere, 1st round picks).

In my opinion, Brian Burke would be great for a team like Vancouver (in its present state) in getting over the top. Not necessarily getting a bottom feeder out of the hole.

Another golden comment from you. If Murray built Anaheim, then Burke built Vancouver.

I suppose you're trying to say he could finish off what Gillis started, yet Gillis is using Burke's core to win with.

 

[Bomber0104]

Another golden comment from you. If Murray built Anaheim, then Burke built Vancouver.

I suppose you're trying to say he could finish off what Gillis started, yet Gillis is using Burke's core to win with.

How did Burke "build" Vancouver?

There's Sedins, Kesler, and what from Burke again?

Nothing that's gotten them anywhere.

Sedin's won't get you anywhere. Soft little princesses in my opinion.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

How did Burke "build" Vancouver?

There's Sedins, Kesler, and what from Burke again?

Nothing that's gotten them anywhere.

Sedin's won't get you anywhere. Soft little princesses in my opinion.

Vancouver went to game 7 of the finals. That's certainly getting somewhere.

And what's different from Getzlaf/Perry to the Sedins and Kesler exactly?

Sedins are star forwards on great contracts.

 

[Bomber0104]

Vancouver went to game 7 of the finals. That's certainly getting somewhere.

And what's different from Getzlaf/Perry to the Sedins and Kesler exactly?

Sedins are star forwards on great contracts.

Well there's Lupul, Giguere, Rob Niedermayer (and in turn Scott Niedermayer) still to account for.

(Just gotta say Roger, I think your heart is in the right place after reading some of your other material....I just don't think your view on Brian Burke is accurate...you do mean well as a true Leaf fan I'm sure)

 

[FlareKnight]

Look at who the main contributors to their success were. Career AHLrs or NHL prospects?

How about prospects that will turn into Career AHLrs .

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

It's odd given the Marlies record and some of our prospects and our financial situation that the Leafs are perceived as the biggest mess in the NHL.


I don't think people get how much the NHl will look different next time they play. There will be so many trades/signings. There will also be teams that are not deemed contenders that will be.

Are you keeping your fingers crossed?

You're funny.

 

[LeafsNation75]

He offer sheeted in 2007 which means the 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 picks would have been forfeited.

That would have been two 1st overalls (2010, 2011) and that's assuming that an Edmonton team with Vanek doesn't improve at all (which is presumptuous) and management removes itself from the free agent business.

Your argument is simply incorrect.

Please review all the facts and information before trying to excuse Brian Burke's failures here in Toronto.

Since the Oilers had orignally given up their own 1st round pick in 2008 because of the Dustin Penner offer sheet they were lucky enough to have Anaheim's 1st round pick that same year because of the Chris Pronger trade. The condition was Anaheim having to make the Stanley Cup Finals within three years of the trade and we all know they did in 2007. Anyway had that never happened the Oilers would have never got to select Jordan Eberle. So was Kevin Lowe very lucky with the way things ended up with that draft or would they still be a good young team without Eberle?

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

It's a model of trying to get the best prospects in the draft.

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Why play dumb?

Pittsburgh/Chicago/Edmonton....multiple first overall picks.

The only one of those teams that have had multiple first overall picks because of its ineptness is Edmonton.

Chicago jumped from 5 to 1 because of the lottery.

Pittsburgh also won a lottery where 30 teams had a chance to be #1.

As for Marc-André Fleury, they got that #1 following a trade.

When Pittsburgh finished last, they lost the lottery and had to satisfy themselves with a #2 pick (someone by the name of Malkin... poor them).

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

No that would be a promotion.

And the same strategy was carried forward with the new GM Tambellini.

Signing a veteran in net to allow Dubnyk to develop is not a bad move and this was done in Toronto too with Cujo, Gigeure, etc.

I quoted Kevin Lowe to show you what kind of a different strategy and organizational goal Edmonton has versus the gung-ho pursuit of playoffs one here in Toronto.

You dismissing this tells everyone all they need to know about your capacity for reason.

Really?

That's your best comeback...

As Mark Twain said/wrote : "It's better to keep silent...

 

[ULF_55]

The only one of those teams that have had multiple first overall picks because of its ineptness is Edmonton.

Chicago jumped from 5 to 1 because of the lottery.

Pittsburgh also won a lottery where 30 teams had a chance to be #1.

As for Marc-André Fleury, they got that #1 following a trade.

When Pittsburgh finished last, they lost the lottery and had to satisfy themselves with a #2 pick (someone by the name of Malkin... poor them).

True, but I think 5th. worst is inept, and winning the lottery and moving the 1st. overall is a result of that ineptness.

 

[Bomber0104]

Really?

That's your best comeback...

As Mark Twain said/wrote : "It's better to keep silent...

Honestly..

What are you doing here?

The man basically says " we are going to come in last for the next little while "

And you interpret this as what?

Really?

What do think this means? Because Roger seems to think this means something radically different than what I mean.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I was talking about Cujo a few years ago...not the young Cujo.

The UFA's that Brian Burke has signed are not the way to go as in:

Connolly, Komisarek, Liles, Macarthur, Armstrong...

When you are a really terrible team like the Leafs...you are improving the team unnecessarily and just harming your draft position.

But when you trade multiple first round picks, I guess this is the sort of thing you almost have to do to not avoid the humiliation of sending Tyler Seguin to a divisional rival..

Some would claim that he was following your advice and trying to worsen the team by signing some of these FAs.