Speculation: Should Army trade away Jake Allen @ off-season?

[Falco Lombardi]

You better have a backup plan for when Hutton leaves

 

[Thallis]

I disagree that the defense was as good as previous years this year. I think the defense, as a whole, was above average, but also suffered from some inconsistency that strayed from what we've become accustomed to over the years. Much of that was due to the abundance of injuries and a complete devolving of our special teams. You brought up being top 6 in the league in goals against. My issue with that is that the goalie is blamed when more goals go in, but the the praise goes to the defense whey they don't. The reality is that the truth is somewhere in between. I'm not trying to troll you on this issue, I'm just trying to have a real a real conversation on the thread about the problems and how to fix them, instead of just the "jake sucks! These numbers prove it!" commentary that is often displayed. In my personal opinion, almost every aspect of the club took a hit this year. Certainly the offense and goaltending, definitely the special teams, and to a lesser extent the defense. I think our record would have been bottom ten in the league without the acquisition of Schenn.

The defense was fine. We gave up the 3rd fewest shots against per game and the 4th fewest high danger shots against per game. Our possession metrics were near the top of the league too. There's not really much that supports the D being just "above average" this year. We were one of the top defensive teams in the league again.

 

[TK 421]

Ville Husso Hype Train has entered the station. All aboard for impenetrable summer goalie arguments that you can't lose!

 

[ezcreepin]

I disagree that the defense was as good as previous years this year. I think the defense, as a whole, was above average, but also suffered from some inconsistency that strayed from what we've become accustomed to over the years. Much of that was due to the abundance of injuries and a complete devolving of our special teams. You brought up being top 6 in the league in goals against. My issue with that is that the goalie is blamed when more goals go in, but the the praise goes to the defense whey they don't. The reality is that the truth is somewhere in between. I'm not trying to troll you on this issue, I'm just trying to have a real a real conversation on the thread about the problems and how to fix them, instead of just the "jake sucks! These numbers prove it!" commentary that is often displayed. In my personal opinion, almost every aspect of the club took a hit this year. Certainly the offense and goaltending, definitely the special teams, and to a lesser extent the defense. I think our record would have been bottom ten in the league without the acquisition of Schenn.

No you're fine, I dont think you're trying to troll at all. I'm just trying to look at Jake's struggles objectively, and might be doing it wrong. I agree with you that I think the team has faltered a bit this year compared to other years, and the special teams are a clear indicator of that. What I find interesting is there were only 2 teams out of the top 16 in goals against that didn't make the playoffs: the Blues and Stars. Stars had average goaltending, but their special teams were just as bad as ours, and I dont think it's a coincidence that they both missed by 2 games or less. With even middle of the pack PP and PK, both teams are probably in the playoffs, and I think both teams are relatively interchangeable at this point. One has a better defense, the other has seemingly more potent offense (though they were on par with the Blues this year). I think you and I both agree that either Allen and Marty need to get together and figure something out or improve our goaltending when we can. This team cant keep faltering because of Allen's inability to stay focused or have a bad memory. I'm just not sure how many options are out there atm if we plan on shopping Allen. One thing that is imperative this coming season is to fix the special teams. They, along with Jake's inconsistency, really brought this team down in a bad way.

 

[The Note in MI]

You better have a backup plan for when Hutton leaves

I see what you did there

 

[WeWentBlues]

This is what I would do to address goalie situation for 2018-2019:
Resign Hutton
Trade for one of Dansk/Mrazek/Grubauer
Trade Allen to Carolina in a hockey trade
Let Husso continue to develop in the AHL

 

[David Dennison]

Ville Husso Hype Train has entered the station. All aboard for impenetrable summer goalie arguments that you can't lose!

Yeah, but like, Im correct.

 

[Itsnotatrap]

This is what I would do to address goalie situation for 2018-2019:
Resign Hutton
Trade for one of Dansk/Mrazek/Grubauer
Trade Allen to Carolina in a hockey trade
Let Husso continue to develop in the AHL

With their long history of awful goaltending, I don’t see Carolina being the team that would take the risk of Allen, unless we were taking the risk of Darling back.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

With their long history of awful goaltending, I don’t see Carolina being the team that would take the risk of Allen, unless we were taking the risk of Darling back.

The teams that would take a shot on Allen are probably limited to Buffalo, NYI (and that's a steep maybe because Halak and Greiss haven't been great but Greiss hasn't been that bad either), Philly, and Vancouver. Very limited list. I think the Blues are stuck with Allen for better or worse. That's why I want to see Husso start taking games from Allen.

 

[BlueDream]

The teams that would take a shot on Allen are probably limited to Buffalo, NYI (and that's a steep maybe because Halak and Greiss haven't been great but Greiss hasn't been that bad either), Philly, and Vancouver. Very limited list. I think the Blues are stuck with Allen for better or worse. That's why I want to see Husso start taking games from Allen.

I don’t like Allen but he’s a shit ton better than Greiss IMO. The Isles have horrendous goaltending. They’d actually be smart to take a chance on him.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Cory Schneider put his house up on the market. I wonder if NJ already has a deal in place.

 

[Oberyn]

From JR's most recent article where he delves into who he believes is untouchable, unlikely, and more likely to be dealt in the offseason. The news on Allen is interesting.

Jake Allen — Another midseason unraveling could spell the end of the netminder’s time with the Blues, despite having three more years left at $4.35 million per. He turned it around down the stretch, but it’s believed the Blues only gave him the net to help improve his stock for a potential trade.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Next off-season is gonna be total buyers market for goalies. It could be difficult to trade him then.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

The teams that would take a shot on Allen are probably limited to Buffalo, NYI (and that's a steep maybe because Halak and Greiss haven't been great but Greiss hasn't been that bad either), Philly, and Vancouver. Very limited list. I think the Blues are stuck with Allen for better or worse. That's why I want to see Husso start taking games from Allen.

Philly could very well be the answer. Hextall sure likes other teams capdumps and is looking for veteran d as well. Two birds one stone?

 

[stl76]

Cory Schneider put his house up on the market. I wonder if NJ already has a deal in place.

Saw that news about Schneider's house...personally, I'm hesitant to read too much into that sort of thing. We saw Backes put his house up prior to signing in Boston, so there is some precedence from a Blues fan perspective (even tho the situations are very different). But maybe Schneider just wants a bigger house in Jersey, wants a shorted commute to the NJD practice facility, or maybe his basement was constantly flooding. Anticipating a trade is just one of 1000+1 reasons he might be selling his house.

NJ would be foolish to trade Schneider given his relatively low value at the moment coming off a couple mediocre seasons and a serious hip injury/surgery. Given his performance in the playoffs and subsequent injury disclosure, I think it's likely NJ realizes that his struggles have been at least in part due to injury and that he can still be a very good goalie. Plus, while Kinkaid played great down the stretch, he stumbled hard in the playoffs and has not really proven he can be a legit #1 guy...and it's not like NJ has an elite goaltending prospect knocking on the door. There's a lot to like about Blackwood, but doubtful he'd be ready for an NHL backup role (much less starter) in the next year or two.

That said, I would do backflips down Broadway if the Blues acquired Schneider. He is one of my favorite goalies in the NHL/world.

 

[Stealth JD]

Let's say the Blues don't trade Allen this off-season, for whatever reason. What happens if he's playing relatively well up until January 1, and then has a single bad start? How much **** would the Blues be in that situation?

I mean...they'd have to give him a chance to rebound...but management and coaching would have to be on red alert and expecting the worst. Do you give him 2 or 3 GAMES between starts at the first sign of losing it again? What if his next game back he gives up another clunker or two? How long is the leash at that point? Armstrong couldn't possibly risk making his team go through another annual Allen-meltdown, could he? And if you can't give a guy two or three games of leeway before hitting the panic button, how can you honestly enter the season as that being a possibility of even playing out?

If you've got a team that was already challenged with confidence and mental-toughness issues, the last thing a General Manager of a team needs to do is put a shaky-goalie behind a fragile club. It's inexcusable. Even if the guy they bring in is less talented, he's not a ticking time-bomb like Allen is. Guys won't feel their season slipping away or feel like they need to be perfect playing ahead of a guy with a clean slate. He'd at least inspire hope that he can bounce back and put it behind him quickly. They know Allen cannot.

I'd put the chances of Allen having played his last game as a Blue at over 50%, personally.

 

[Robb_K]

If he's still on The Blues, and has an awful game in January, I'd give Allen 3 games before going to a "tandem" situation. Then, if he stays "bad", I'd play him only in back-to-backs, until he'd start playing well again

 

[WeWentBlues]

4 years remaining at 6M AAV for Schneider with a NTC.

Would Devils consider swapping goalies? Color me interested.

 

[Ranksu]

Just put that softie at bench and ride with Brodeur.

 

[67Blues]

If he's still on The Blues, and has an awful game in January, I'd give Allen 3 games before going to a "tandem" situation. Then, if he stays "bad", I'd play him only in back-to-backs, until he'd start playing well again

I guess the length of the hook depends on who our backup is.

 

[GoldenSeal]

I am all onboard with trading Jake Allen only if it gets us a player we need in a package. Not a pick. Not a prospect. A player that can plug right into the top six. I'm a radical and I'd rather run with Hutton and Husso behind him at this point than Jake, we've seen what he can do and imo his problem is mental toughness and that's something you can't teach. On the same token, we know where his ceiling is and can build around that but not with Yeo as coach or the coaching staff we have.

 

[Brian39]

From JR's most recent article where he delves into who he believes is untouchable, unlikely, and more likely to be dealt in the offseason. The news on Allen is interesting.

My athletic subscription has really soured me on JR. He seems to give his opinion more than he used to and I find his opinion is usually fairly uninformed.

His statement, "it’s believed the Blues only gave him the net to help improve his stock for a potential trade." doesn't really make much sense and he doesn't indicate that he has a source to back it up. The Blues went back to Allen when Hutton got injured. Hutton was slated to start his 3rd straight game when he was hurt during the morning skate. Yeo literally said that he was surprised Hutton couldn't go when he got to the rink that evening. Hutton only skated twice in the next 2 weeks and didn't get cleared to play until almost 3 weeks after the injury. Is he suggesting that the Blues intentionally injured Hutton or fabricated a neck issue in order to increase Allen's trade value? Because by the time Hutton returned, Allen had already 'turned it around' during his absence.

 

[Stealth JD]

My athletic subscription has really soured me on JR. He seems to give his opinion more than he used to and I find his opinion is usually fairly uninformed.

His statement, "it’s believed the Blues only gave him the net to help improve his stock for a potential trade." doesn't really make much sense and he doesn't indicate that he has a source to back it up. The Blues went back to Allen when Hutton got injured. Hutton was literally slated to start his 3rd straight game when he was hurt during the morning skate. Yeo literally said that he was surprised Hutton couldn't go when he got to the rink that evening. Hutton only skated twice in the next 2 weeks and didn't get cleared to play until almost 3 weeks after the injury. Is he suggesting that the Blues intentionally injured Hutton or fabricated a neck issue in order to increase Allen's trade value? Because by the time Hutton returned, Allen had already 'turned it around' during his absence.

JR does seem to contradict himself a lot, or talk out of both sides of his mouth and create more confusion than clarity. His hot takes get in the way of actual reporting and is not what we'd come to expect of him for sure.

 

[Itsnotatrap]

What do people think about something centering around Allen for Craig Anderson? Supplement and even out however you want, but we get one year less term on a shaky asset, and more defined timeline and path for Husso, and they get a lottery ticket that might matter for them when it counts.

 

[David Dennison]

What do people think about something centering around Allen for Craig Anderson? Supplement and even out however you want, but we get one year less term on a shaky asset, and more defined timeline and path for Husso, and they get a lottery ticket that might matter for them when it counts.