Shocking Tyler Wright stat

[The Zetterberg Era]

What he posted at the time was true sure but it doesnt make it any less reactionary and poorly thought out. Not trying to attack him but its the kind of post with a negative spin that this board has going in spades the last little while even if its undeserved. So it was called out for how bad it looks now, especially some of the posts in here.

That is fine and I know we all do it. I am just trying to point out I don't think the ridiculous and lol and whatever else needs to be thrown on every subject.

We are at the start or middle if we are lucky of this rebuild and some dark times. We all root for the same team, we all have good opinions and bad. Just trying to point out while I would love to discuss the uptick in Wright draft picks hitting the roster we can do it without necessarily the barbs being thrown around in my opinion. I get that it is a part of it and they never go away outright. Just was pointing out I think we all have posts that proved wrong and ideas/concept about the team that weren't on the money.

Biggest wish in the new year is that we just all get a little nicer around here.

The Wings are a difficult team to watch right now, but again we all root for the same team. Even if it is unrealistic and idealistic, I just think we need to be more understanding at times around here. Let's talk more hockey in 2019 and less about each other is all... I know I am not super thrilled when I read a reply starting to one of my posts that has don't be ridiculous or laughing at whatever I just posted. I try not to do it to others even if I also fail at times. It was just a reminder.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I understand on that and I’ll attempt to be nicer, but this was exaggerating something that was technically true to make a very weak point. It is entirely possible that the 2015-2017 drafts are all busts. But the fact that they didn’t have a point in the NHL within 2-3 years of being drafted isn’t remotely indicative of it.

It was taking an indefensible position and trying to slag the Wings executives with it. They’ve made enough mistakes/questionable decisions that you don’t have to stretch like that.

There is a big difference to me between something like you thinking Marek Tvrdon is going to be something special and someone saying “HOLY CRAP, THIS STAT IS SHOCKING AND HORRIFYING. LOOK HOW BAD HOLLAND IS!” And all this using bad logic to defend the opinion

I get that and I am sorry if you and @newfy feel targeted. I just am saying this also as a turn the page on the new year. We are in for a tough second half. December went as a bunch of us predicted in terms of this team couldn't get wins which is what the schedule looked like. But just the age old if you don't have something nice to say could apply around here a decent amount.

I didn't delete anything, just asked that we talk more on the hockey points and less on the who was right or not and posters individually. It is more of a general thought that I think we could have more meaningful discussions than some of the one upping you see from time to time. We have a lot of smart posters that know the game and a lot of different opinions. I wish we all devoted more time to that is all. End of rant...

There is a lot of Holland bashing I can do without, I think most of you know that I am a big Ken Holland guy. I do think his time is coming to a close, but I do think he has given us the solid foundation for a rebuild. Him and Wright are building a team with size and speed. We need a little more talent mixed in obviously, but I like a lot of what has been done with the rebuild in mind the last couple years. Hopefully Yzerman continues this and pulls us all the way out.

 

[Frk It]

Biggest wish in the new year is that we just all get a little nicer around here.

The Wings are difficult team to watch right now, but again we all root for the same team. Even if it is unrealistic and idealistic, I just think we need to be more understanding at times around here. Let's talk more hockey in 2019 and less about each other is all... I know I am not super thrilled when I read a reply starting to one of my posts that has don't be ridiculous or laughing at whatever I just posted.

We should sticky this. I second this all day.

 

[Henkka]

Both Hronek and "slumping" Cholowski are having more points per game than Jacob Chychrun at this season.

NHL.com - Stats

From 2016 draft Charlie McAvoy is the best producer.

1. McAvoy, 0.65 points per game
2. Hronek, 0.39
3. Cholowski, 0.36
4. Sergachev, 0.35
5. Lajoie, 0.33
6. Chychrun, 0.33
7. Girard, 0.31

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Both Hronek and "slumping" Cholowski are having more points per game than Jacob Chychrun at this season.

NHL.com - Stats

From 2016 draft Charlie McAvoy is the best producer.

1. McAvoy, 0.65 points per game
2. Hronek, 0.39
3. Cholowski, 0.36
4. Sergachev, 0.35
5. Lajoie, 0.33
6. Chychrun, 0.33
7. Girard, 0.31

Hronek's shot is a beauty; hope he puts on 15+lbs of muscle in the offseason, 170 is way too light for Dman listed at 6'. Cholo's shot is also decent.

 

[Dotter]

That is fine and I know we all do it. I am just trying to point out I don't think the ridiculous and lol and whatever else needs to be thrown on every subject.

We are at the start or middle if we are lucky of this rebuild and some dark times. We all root for the same team, we all have good opinions and bad. Just trying to point out while I would love to discuss the uptick in Wright draft picks hitting the roster we can do it without necessarily the barbs being thrown around in my opinion. I get that it is a part of it and they never go away outright. Just was pointing out I think we all have posts that proved wrong and ideas/concept about the team that weren't on the money.

Biggest wish in the new year is that we just all get a little nicer around here.

The Wings are a difficult team to watch right now, but again we all root for the same team. Even if it is unrealistic and idealistic, I just think we need to be more understanding at times around here. Let's talk more hockey in 2019 and less about each other is all... I know I am not super thrilled when I read a reply starting to one of my posts that has don't be ridiculous or laughing at whatever I just posted. I try not to do it to others even if I also fail at times. It was just a reminder.

I find them to be an exciting team to watch right now and it just keeps getting better as they keep injecting more youth. That said, I get your point.

The only thing happening in the system right now that worries me is Zadina. Hopefully it'll all come together for him.

 

[benusmc]

I find them to be an exciting team to watch right now and it just keeps getting better as they keep injecting more youth. That said, I get your point.

The only thing happening in the system right now that worries me is Zadina. Hopefully it'll all come together for him.

It seems like there are more fans going even though they continue to lose. People can see the direction of the team, and Larkin is starting to carry the mantle of Wings Captains being must sees.

 

[Henkka]

Dylan Larkin is his only draft pick in Detroit to generate at least 1 point in the NHL. That's really sobering. Svechnikov may get an assist over the final 10 games, so we may get to two guys who have produced points at the NHl level.

It's yet another sign of how much needs to change once the season is officially over.

Really interesting.

This thread was started on March 17, 2018, so one year ago Larkin was the only Tyler Wright -drafted player who had scored points.

Now we have 7 players.

Larkin, 202 points
Hronek, 16 points
Cholowski, 16 points
Rasmussen, 15 points
Ehn, 7 points
Svechnikov, 4 points
Zadina, 2 points

The change you called for has really happened. 6 more young players have taken some steps towards NHL.

 

[FissionFire]

Lies! It only counts as change if someone loses their job!

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Really interesting.

This thread was started on March 17, 2018, so one year ago Larkin was the only Tyler Wright -drafted player who had scored points.

Now we have 7 players.

Larkin, 202 points
Hronek, 16 points
Cholowski, 16 points
Rasmussen, 15 points
Ehn, 7 points
Svechnikov, 4 points
Zadina, 2 points

The change you called for has really happened. 6 more young players have taken some steps towards NHL.

Why, it's almost like RtJ's "sobering" stat was nonsense and complaining simply to complain.

Hell, like half that list were guys thought to be projects at the time of their draft that were multiple years away.

 

[Hockey Know it all]

Chychrun is going to have a long, successful NHL career. Vilardi was a top 5 point producer at even strength. All of you who have defended Holland need to realize how bad he's been over the past 5 years. Add in awful drafting and he's set the rebuild to being competitive back further than was necessary.

Damn, how do you feel now buddy? Both Hronek and Cholowski played in the NHL, Cholowski was our best dman in the beginning of the year and Hronek has been great all year(he went down for a little)

I’d retract your statement.

 

[Dotter]

I’m not as inflated as everyone else here. These players are only on the team because there really no one else to put there and aside from Cholowski (who himself is struggling too right now), none have proven to be NHL talents.

I think the idea was Detroit is bad at drafting because they traded a pick that could have landed them Chychrun and skipped on Vilardi.

But as we are seeing now, Cholowski+Hronek and Rasmussen are proving to be a much better choice than the former option.

I remember how upset everyone was when Ken Holland missed Chychrun and skipped Vilardi. Now Kenny's looking like a complete genius.

 

[Invictus12]

I think the idea was Detroit is bad at drafting because they traded a pick that could have landed them Chychrun and skipped on Vilardi.

But as we are seeing now, Cholowski+Hronek and Rasmussen are proving to be a much better choice than the former option.

I remember how upset everyone was when Ken Holland missed Chychrun and skipped Vilardi. Now Kenny's looking like a complete genius.

Its still a bit early to say ofcourse but yeah, the outrage over youngsters where 10 scouts will give you 10 different answers was not rational at all.

 

[The Zermanator]

Way too early to tell with any of these guys.

Remains to be seen whether the Wings used their first top 10 pick in decades wisely. If it does end up being a really weak draft and Rasmussen becomes a decent contributor then hard to argue with that one. But if there are players chosen within 10 or so picks after him that end up being much better then the return on that first top 10 pick won't look too hot.

As for those dmen, I think a lot of shortchanging happens towards Chychrun around here. He's developing a worrisome pattern of being an often injured guy which is not good, but it could also just be bad luck early in his career. His physical gifts were considered to be his strengths when he was drafted so he may prove to be more durable than he appears in the long run, or as the injuries mount he may lose all effectiveness. But he still jumped straight into the NHL as an 18 year old and he's put up respectable numbers ever since. And the kid is only 20. With dmen typically hitting their prime in the back half of their 20s, he's got a lot of hockey left to play before we know what he is. To say that he is what he is and won't grow seems absurd at this point. I don't think kids who hit the NHL at 18 are done developing at 20.

So far the results are very promising with both Hronek and Cholowski, they seem to be developing into solid 2nd pairing guys at minimum. Hopefully one or both of them find another gear and become top pairing dman but that is a lot to wish for. There still exists a very real possibility, maybe even likelihood, that Chychrun will end up the best of the three.

Also as a side note, I believe shedding Datsyuk's contract in this deal is what gave Holland the cap space to sign Helm and Nielsen to those abhorrent deals, is it not?

EDIT: I hope this whole Tyler Wright discussion is moot because Yzerman will be GM next year anyway and will be bringing in his own scouting team.

 

[newfy]

Way too early to tell with any of these guys.

Remains to be seen whether the Wings used their first top 10 pick in decades wisely. If it does end up being a really weak draft and Rasmussen becomes a decent contributor then hard to argue with that one. But if there are players chosen within 10 or so picks after him that end up being much better then the return on that first top 10 pick won't look too hot.

As for those dmen, I think a lot of shortchanging happens towards Chychrun around here. He's developing a worrisome pattern of being an often injured guy which is not good, but it could also just be bad luck early in his career. His physical gifts were considered to be his strengths when he was drafted so he may prove to be more durable than he appears in the long run, or as the injuries mount he may lose all effectiveness. But he still jumped straight into the NHL as an 18 year old and he's put up respectable numbers ever since. And the kid is only 20. With dmen typically hitting their prime in the back half of their 20s, he's got a lot of hockey left to play before we know what he is. To say that he is what he is and won't grow seems absurd at this point. I don't think kids who hit the NHL at 18 are done developing at 20.

So far the results are very promising with both Hronek and Cholowski, they seem to be developing into solid 2nd pairing guys at minimum. Hopefully one or both of them find another gear and become top pairing dman but that is a lot to wish for. There still exists a very real possibility, maybe even likelihood, that Chychrun will end up the best of the three.

Also as a side note, I believe shedding Datsyuk's contract in this deal is what gave Holland the cap space to sign Helm and Nielsen to those abhorrent deals, is it not?

EDIT: I hope this whole Tyler Wright discussion is moot because Yzerman will be GM next year anyway and will be bringing in his own scouting team.

Its definitely too early to tell with these guys but could you imagine this board if the wings drafted Vilardi instead of Rasmussen? It would be the same couple of posters saying "Wow, Holland didnt do hishomework on the guy and now hes played 30 games since the draft" ..." the wings could've drafted a 6'6 potential center who plays with some physicality instead they drafted this bandaid"... "Rasmussen has played more NHL games since the draft than Vilardi has total since the draft"

It would be the same typical shit show with the same posters who complain about the Rasmussen pick, who also complained about Larkin before that and then complained about how Bertuzzi could've been signed as an undrafted free agent or 7th rounder while theyre at it.

As for Chychrun, hes solid. But Cholowski and Hronek are too. I wouldnt trade either one of them straight up for Chychrun right now, forget about the both of them. Chychrun has already had his ACL operated on 3 times at the age of 20. Hronek and CHolowskis offensive ceilings are much higher than Chychruns

 

[Run the Jewels]

Here's some analytics to confirm what we already know: the Wings have been really bad at drafting NHL talent since it became a focus following the lockout:

Link: Analyzing 16 years of NHL draft data to see which teams have...

 

[SirloinUB]

Here's some analytics to confirm what we already know: the Wings have been really bad at drafting NHL talent since it became a focus following the lockout:

Link: Analyzing 16 years of NHL draft data to see which teams have...

I mean, maybe if you ignore all context around draft position and picks traded.

In reality this link is irrelevant to the discussion at hand about the success of Tyler Wright's draft picks. His picks are just starting to reveal their abilities now and therefore we can barely eventuate his success, let alone compare him to 16 year long track records.

Also compared to when you first created this discussion many of his picks have already shown improvement.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Money quote from the article:

It’s pretty unbelievable that the Lightning went from being the least-successful team at the draft during the first third of the 16 years to the most successful during the middle third (four of five years which were spearheaded, likely not by coincidence, by Steve Yzerman) as well.

Stevie can't get here soon enough.

 

[SuperScript29]

I definitely wanted Vilardi, but I am very happy with the chowolski/Hronek trade. Chychrun has a ton of red flags.

Vilardi is made of glass, I'm glad we ditched that choice. Rasmussen may not be as talented, but I'm confident that he will be a top-6 forward and will play an important role by providing a screen on the PP.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Money quote from the article:



Stevie can't get here soon enough.

Here's some analytics to confirm what we already know: the Wings have been really bad at drafting NHL talent since it became a focus following the lockout:

Link: Analyzing 16 years of NHL draft data to see which teams have...

Here is another "money quote" from the article:

While pulling the raw production of skaters drafted by NHL teams into one number provides some interesting insights, it also lacks the necessary context.

That context is: Not all NHL teams draft from the same position and that impacts the degree of difficulty they’ve faced in finding players.

While the results below certainly tell us that teams like Detroit, Toronto, Calgary, New Jersey and Vancouver have fared extremely poorly vis-a-vis the Bostons of the world when it comes to point totals from their drafted players, they don’t tell us what challenges they faced.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Here is another "money quote" from the article:

Shhh... Don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

 

[BinCookin]

^^ Interesting that I ran an analysis of 2000-2015 using

Draft position vs ReDraft position using a pick value chart to score the players.
Under that analysis, detroit has had a very solid drafting record (They have also had almost no good picks to bust on, so lack of opportunity to fail is the main bias in determining detroit's position)

 

[kliq]

Vilardi is made of glass, I'm glad we ditched that choice. Rasmussen may not be as talented, but I'm confident that he will be a top-6 forward and will play an important role by providing a screen on the PP.

Wasnt even aware of this, I stopped following him since he left the Spits, and even when he played here I didnt follow too closely.

 

[newfy]

Wasnt even aware of this, I stopped following him since he left the Spits, and even when he played here I didnt follow too closely.

Hes played about 50 games total since his draft year, where hes had similar production to Rasmussen. The outrage is pretty funny with how things played out

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

^^ Interesting that I ran an analysis of 2000-2015 using

Draft position vs ReDraft position using a pick value chart to score the players.
Under that analysis, detroit has had a very solid drafting record (They have also had almost no good picks to bust on, so lack of opportunity to fail is the main bias in determining detroit's position)

But Bin, a guy from the Athletic ran a bunch of data ignoring context and even stated he was ignoring context that said we draft really bad. Clearly that is more valid a statistical analysis than anything.