Confirmed with Link: Sheldon Keefe Fired -- Discussion Thread

[The Masters]

Are you talking purely about size or how they play?

Those aren't players who play heavy, and Rielly would have been their second-biggest D after Parayko, who is barely larger.

And if we are only talking about height, it is irrelevant, that is like saying Matthews is the same size as Byfuglien.

I am just not seeing this heavy D...

Size and play. And they had edumunson. Thats a big bunch that can hit and move the puck. I dont know where you are coming with a take they didn't play heavy? lol

 

[notbias]

Size and play. And they had edumunson. Thats a big bunch that can hit and move the puck. I dont know where you are coming with a take they didn't play heavy? lol

Have you seen Petro or Parayko play? We probably had a heavier bunch of D this year... they had way better D for sure.

 

[The Masters]

I don't disagree, but you have to be careful that you don't whittle away talent while you are reshaping the lineup. He sort of did exactly that in Calgary...

Tre is leading the ship now. Unless he gets fired, he's got to play out his vision. It is what it is at this point

Have you seen Petro or Parayko play? We probably had a heavier bunch of D this year... they had way better D for sure.

I don't think you have. Those guys are all 6'4" , hit and move the puck. I don't know what you are not getting.

 

[notbias]

I don't think you have. Those guys are all 6'4" , hit and move the puck. I don't know what you are not getting.

Oh... you just mean tall. Ya sure, they are big.

They don't play big though.

113 D played in the playoffs during their cup run.

hits/60

79. Parayko
80. Barrie
....
98. Petro
99. Brodie

Big hitters.

 

[The Masters]

Oh... you just mean tall. Ya sure, they are big.

They don't play big though.

113 D played in the playoffs during their cup run.

hits/60

79. Parayko
80. Barrie
....
98. Petro
99. Brodie

Big hitters.

Yeah big and skilled. It's staring right at you but I guess you don't understand defence that has size and skill like st louis did when you are comparing them with brodie and barrie.

Fried.

 

[Woodman19]

My guess on the other coach who was a former Head Coach is John Stevens. He was a head coach in stints in Philly and Los Angeles and recently been an assistant in Dallas and Vegas. He worked with Berube in Philadelphia.

 

[notbias]

Yeah big and skilled. It's staring right at you but I guess you don't understand defence that has size and skill like st louis did when you are comparing them with brodie and barrie.

Fried.

Big and skilled, all for it, but you said heavy, which is different.

You were telling me they hit a lot and were skilled, which is just false.

I'd love to have some of the best D in the league that are also big.

It's fine if you just weren't familiar with Petro and Parayko, you don't need to keep shifting the goalposts.

 

[The Masters]

Big and skilled, all for it, but you said heavy, which is different.

You were telling me they hit a lot and were skilled, which is just false.

I'd love to have some of the best D in the league that are also big.

It's fine if you just weren't familiar with Petro and Parayko, you don't need to keep shifting the goalposts.

You claimed St Lous defense was small which is false. You clearly did not watch any of them play. It's fine if you dont understand what big, heavy mobile defense looks like when I explain it to you. Go along now

 

[notbias]

You claimed St Lous defense was small which is false. You clearly did not watch any of them play. It's fine if you dont understand what big, heavy mobile defense looks like when I explain it to you. Go along now

I don't think you have. Those guys are all 6'4" , hit and move the puck. I don't know what you are not getting.

Changing what you said... but alright.

I also never called them small.

As I said, St Louis had big D, and was skilled, but didn't hit much.

They just had good D, I'd like more of that too.

"Heavy D" was the original thing, but they play more skilled than heavy... that's how you win.

 

[The Masters]

Changing what you said... but alright.

I also never called them small.

As I said, St Louis had big D, and was skilled, but didn't hit much.

They just had good D, I'd like more of that too.

"Heavy D" was the original thing, but they play more skilled than heavy... that's how you win.

Incorrect again. You claimed they were small while using Colorado as a comparison Lol. Lost.
All big heavy puck moving defenseman. That's what it takes to win and thats what they had to deliver a chip. Move along

 

[notbias]

Incorrect again. You claimed they were small while using Colorado as a comparison Lol. Lost.
All big heavy puck moving defenseman. That's what it takes to win and thats what they had to deliver a chip. Move along

Does he like heavy D? St Louis didn't have heavy D, they weren't Colorado small, but they weren't big or overly physical.

Also, the NHL is trending away from the heavy terrible D, not sure it is wise to get Treliving to target a bunch.

uh oh... looks like you are lying again.

Also... Colorado is the perfect example of skill over size...

This year's Leafs were the perfect example of all size and no skill...

Vegas is in between, St Louis was in between, a lot of teams are in between, but no one has won with all size and no skill.

 

[Evilhomer]

Oh... you just mean tall. Ya sure, they are big.

They don't play big though.

113 D played in the playoffs during their cup run.

hits/60

79. Parayko
80. Barrie
....
98. Petro
99. Brodie

Big hitters.

Come on, you can't compare anyone on the Leafs defense to Pieterangelo. Who cares how tall anyone is. Pieterangelo is in a different stratosphere. He hasn't won two Cups by accident.

but no one has won with all size and no skill.

This I completely agree with.

 

[notbias]

Come on, you can't compare anyone on the Leafs defense to Pieterangelo. Who cares how tall anyone is. Pieterangelo is in a different stratosphere. He hasn't won two Cups by accident.


This I completely agree with.

I am not arguing our D is the same, just that chasing size is silly and St Louis didn't have a ton of "heavy D", they just had some tall D that were skilled.

 

[The Masters]

uh oh... looks like you are lying again.

Also... Colorado is the perfect example of skill over size...

This year's Leafs were the perfect example of all size and no skill...

Vegas is in between, St Louis was in between, a lot of teams are in between, but no one has won with all size and no skill.

uh oh look whos wrong again

"they weren't big"
I suggest you look at their heights since you never watched any of them play. Don't forget about edmonson

 

[IPS]

I remember when Josh Manson was a dinosaur type acqusition who was only going to make Colorado's defense worse, then they won the cup with him playing a key role. Zeke was pretty adamant Justin Holl was a far better D.

 

[notbias]

uh oh look whos wrong again

"they weren't big"
I suggest you look at their heights since you never watched any of them play. Don't forget about edmonson

Height is not how I judge someone's size, weight is.

Buff and Benoit are about the same height, but Buff has like 50lbs on him, are they the same size?

Anyway, you keep changing what is being said, I'll let you continue going back and forth if you want, but I am done.

Rielly is 225 (about what Parayko is), is he a heavy D?

 

[The Masters]

Height is not how I judge someone's size, weight is.

Buff and Benoit are about the same height, but Buff has like 50lbs on him, are they the same size?

Anyway, you keep changing what is being said, I'll let you continue going back and forth if you want, but I am done.

Rielly is 225 (about what Parayko is), is he a heavy D?

Ha
look who's moving goal posts. Go get a dictionary. If you didn't understand just say so next time,. I suggest you actually read what you say before arguing - might help a bit in the future when you attempt to argue.

I'll say it again for you though, St louis had a lot of height, big heavy defense and moved well. that's how they won it all - a key component along with Binner.

 

[34]

Call me crazy, but Keefe is a better coach than Berube. It should have been Shanahan who was fired, Keefe was just the scapegoat for Shanahans incompetence. The team is heavily flawed from the net out.

Samsonov, Woll, Tavares, Marner and Rielly all need to go. That is the problem. It was not the coach.

 

[3blizzard4]

Call me crazy, but Keefe is a better coach than Berube. It should have been Shanahan who was fired, Keefe was just the scapegoat for Shanahans incompetence. The team is heavily flawed from the net out.

A new voice was needed.

 

[34]

A new voice was needed.

You honestly think Keefe was the problem?

With the worst goaltending in the NHL and guys like Marner on the team what did you expect.

 

[Amadeus]

DJ Smith may be back with whoever is coaching the Leafs I think as an assistant.

 

[MSZ]

DJ Smith may be back with whoever is coaching the Leafs I think as an assistant.

Unless the Leafs are hiring him as a head coach, he isn't coming here. LA already hired him as an assistant earlier.

 

[shaner8989]

You honestly think Keefe was the problem?

With the worst goaltending in the NHL and guys like Marner on the team what did you expect.

Samsonov is a pile of shit. Agreed. Woll was the best goalie in the NHL before he got hurt. He was also the best goalie in playoffs albeit only 3 games. That’s on Keefe. If woll starts game 1 the leafs are still playing hockey right now

 

[Evilhomer]

I am not arguing our D is the same, just that chasing size is silly and St Louis didn't have a ton of "heavy D", they just had some tall D that were skilled.

I completely agree. The obsession with size is foolish. Size in the absence of skill won't get this team any further, just as skill without size doesn't work. You need both.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I just don't see the playoffs going any differently next year if they can't convince Marner to waive and bring back the core 4 plus a new coach. Coach still needs horses.