Sheldon Keefe Discussion

[Clark4Ever]

If Keefe has a flaw, it's that he's trigger happy at times with juggling the lines. Otherwise, he has done a tremendous job overall getting the most out of this roster, especially on the defensive end.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

This team will be judged on playoffs but they are rolling

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Rielly and Dermy can't be trusted late in games ... last night Keefer got burned with Rielly .. but he did have a 2 goal lead and Rielly did not see anymore ice after that screw up

 

[The Podium]

If Keefe has a flaw, it's that he's trigger happy at times with juggling the lines. Otherwise, he has done a tremendous job overall getting the most out of this roster, especially on the defensive end.

Except on the PP where he is reluctant to make the necessary changes

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

 

[Pookie]

I love when stats “experts” use stats from this season.

Obviously, comparing anything league wide is not possible this year. Might as well compare us to the KHL from a data integrity perspective.

demonstrates why there is a difference between a degree in mathematics and someone who looks at charts.

 

[kb]

I love when stats “experts” use stats from this season.

Obviously, comparing anything league wide is not possible this year. Might as well compare us to the KHL from a data integrity perspective.

demonstrates why there is a difference between a degree in mathematics and someone who looks at charts.

Huh. I love how self-proclaimed "expert" bashers like to exclude real data that doesn't fit their narrative. That's even more pathetic.

 

[HC7]

I wish he played Willy/Gally more. Also he seems to dislike Liljegren which is weird.

 

[Pookie]

Huh. I love how self-proclaimed "expert" bashers like to exclude real data that doesn't fit their narrative. That's even more pathetic.

The only data set you can reliably compare this year is how the 7 teams that play each other are doing relative to each other.

If that concept is too hard to grasp then perhaps one should avoid threads where numbers are used.

 

[The Podium]

The only data set you can reliably compare this year is how the 7 teams that play each other are doing relative to each other.

If that concept is too hard to grasp then perhaps one should avoid threads where numbers are used.

We’re talking about comparing NHL teams to NHL teams and statistically, including years past, the only outlier division is the East that is stronger than the rest.

Comparisons can be made across divisions, sure it won’t be perfect, but let’s not pretend like we’re talking about some large discrepancy.

 

[Pookie]

We’re talking about comparing NHL teams to NHL teams and statistically, including years past, the only outlier division is the East that is stronger than the rest.

Comparisons can be made across divisions, sure it won’t be perfect, but let’s not pretend like we’re talking about some large discrepancy.

c’mon, you have to know that we can’t compare our team to Pittsburgh in any meaningful way.

 

[The Podium]

c’mon, you have to know that we can’t compare our team to Pittsburgh in any meaningful way.

I clearly said the East is the outlier, so any comparisons with Pittsburgh should reflect that. But why is our success any different than Florida? Or Colorado?

 

[Pookie]

I clearly said the East is the outlier, so any comparisons with Pittsburgh should reflect that. But why is our success any different than Florida? Or Colorado?

yes. Our success is different than Florida or Colorado.

we don’t play the same teams.

it’s also different than previous Leaf teams as well who played a full schedule against the entire NHL.

 

[The Podium]

yes. Our success is different than Florida or Colorado.

we don’t play the same teams.

it’s also different than previous Leaf teams as well who played a full schedule against the entire NHL.

Its a law of averages though, we don’t have to play strong teams, but we also don’t get the chance to play weak teams. We have an unfortunate travel schedule this season that we wouldn’t have had in years past.

Again, obviously it’s not a normal year but comparisons can be made. We’re talking about apples to apples not apples to steaks.

 

[kb]

Its a law of averages though, we don’t have to play strong teams, but we also don’t get the chance to play weak teams. We have an unfortunate travel schedule this season that we wouldn’t have had in years past.

Again, obviously it’s not a normal year but comparisons can be made. We’re talking about apples to apples not apples to steaks.

Do they play other NHL teams? Yup.

So any point he may have had is.....well......fake, and based on the opinion of one vs the reality he wishes to exclude because ego trumps all.

 

[zeke]

We’re talking about comparing NHL teams to NHL teams and statistically, including years past, the only outlier division is the East that is stronger than the rest.

Comparisons can be made across divisions, sure it won’t be perfect, but let’s not pretend like we’re talking about some large discrepancy.

And even then I'd argue that the teams in the East probably took a bigger offseason hit in quality, both by player losses and player aging, than the other divisions. I'm not sure even one team in the East was generally considered to have upgraded their roster in the offseason aside from Buffalo.

Whereas in the North, every team other than the Canucks was considered to have made nice roster upgrades this offseason.

 

[Menzinger]

Do they play other NHL teams? Yup.

So any point he may have had is.....well......fake, and based on the opinion of one vs the reality he wishes to exclude because ego trumps all.

And not to mention in the modern NHL, there's not a single team in the league that plays all other teams equally over the course of the regular season.

 

[Pookie]

Its a law of averages though, we don’t have to play strong teams, but we also don’t get the chance to play weak teams. We have an unfortunate travel schedule this season that we wouldn’t have had in years past.

Again, obviously it’s not a normal year but comparisons can be made. We’re talking about apples to apples not apples to steaks.

If one wants to claim this is a science, then we need to have integrity of the data.

especially with something as basic as a rank order chart.

when 24 teams do not play each other in a 31 team league, that should be pretty self evident.

 

[kb]

I wish he played Willy/Gally more. Also he seems to dislike Liljegren which is weird.

It's not a dislike as much as it is about cap space, and the fact the Leafs would have to waive someone (and hope they clear) to the taxi squad to get him into the lineup.

 

[Pookie]

And not to mention in the modern NHL, there's not a single team in the league that plays all other teams equally over the course of the regular season.

right. And therein is a challenge with NHL “advanced” stats in general.

 

[Pookie]

Do they play other NHL teams? Yup.

So any point he may have had is.....well......fake, and based on the opinion of one vs the reality he wishes to exclude because ego trumps all.

your desire to go all personal with words like ego and narrative is kinda funny.

For chrissake, it’s a thread about numbers in a game. Save it for Fox.

 

[LeafsFan89]

We’re talking about comparing NHL teams to NHL teams and statistically, including years past, the only outlier division is the East that is stronger than the rest.

Comparisons can be made across divisions, sure it won’t be perfect, but let’s not pretend like we’re talking about some large discrepancy.

Its a law of averages though, we don’t have to play strong teams, but we also don’t get the chance to play weak teams. We have an unfortunate travel schedule this season that we wouldn’t have had in years past.

Again, obviously it’s not a normal year but comparisons can be made. We’re talking about apples to apples not apples to steaks.

Do they play other NHL teams? Yup.

So any point he may have had is.....well......fake, and based on the opinion of one vs the reality he wishes to exclude because ego trumps all.

You have to be careful with the between group variability. I would argue not all NHL teams are created equally. Would the points that our players currently have, as well as the team record change if we played "stronger" teams like Tampa, Islanders, Golden Knights, whoever? Likely yes.

However, I do think it is valid to compare teams within group (i.e., divisions). But for this season, to say team 1 in division A is better than team 2 in division B might be more challenging with just looking at aggregate data like standings or team records.

 

[NK94]

Saying something like Tampa is better than Boston or Toronto for example is silly when not one of those teams will play each other unless they all get out of their respective divisions in the playoffs. How can you possibly compare them without any head-to-head data?

 

[Dekes For Days]

I love when stats “experts” use stats from this season.
Obviously, comparing anything league wide is not possible this year. Might as well compare us to the KHL from a data integrity perspective.

There is always a variance in opponent quality across teams in every season, but it's usually pretty insignificant. The same is true this year. The differences between the divisions is massively exaggerated. You were just wrong, and are looking for excuses to move the goalpost.

 

[Pookie]

There is always a variance in opponent quality across teams in every season, but it's usually pretty insignificant. The same is true this year. The differences between the divisions is massively exaggerated. You were just wrong, and are looking for excuses to move the goalpost.

posts haven’t moved an inch my friend.

Data is only relevant when comparing teams within a division.