Tribute Sheldon Keefe Discussion Part 2

[Cleetus]

Can we still get Gallant or someone in the offseason.

would be happy with a new gm and new coach

 

[Pookie]

Well I don’t know bro. That over use of a figured out system of back peddling the puck is likely hitting a bad nerve on more than myself. Its destructive to our teams skating game. Who likes it might be a good poll on a yes or no context.

flaws in coaching style can be adjusted in a handful of practices. Then kind of mix it up as the particular game dictates. The players need to recognize it also in fairness. So i agree with you also to a degree.

I just hope it works out in time here

I guess if it’s more on the coach then we have more reason to worry.

His trendline is in the wrong direction and they haven’t figured a counter.

Those would raise questions of whether they are they too stuck to a vision of possession, speed and skill to adjust or just incapable of adjusting?

Because they aren’t adjusting.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Well I don’t know bro. That over use of a figured out system of back peddling the puck is likely hitting a bad nerve on more than myself. Its destructive to our teams skating game. Who likes it might be a good poll on a yes or no context.

flaws in coaching style can be adjusted in a handful of practices. Then kind of mix it up as the particular game dictates. The players need to recognize it also in fairness. So i agree with you also to a degree.

I just hope it works out in time here

Why do you think they are skating and passing backwards all the time? Because there is no room between red line and blue line to get through for them. This is not a system it is just passing to the open player because teams are trapping us. Listen to Matty after last game he explains it very clearly. They don't want to give up puck possession so they keep passing it backwards to open man.

Another way to beat this is to force other team to bring in more forecheckers. Just play with puck for like 5 minutes in our end and crowds will start to BOOOOOO. The refs will force other team to attack. or they may call a delay of game penalty on us too. But bottom line Dubie did not construct a team to play this type of game.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Why do you think they are skating and passing backwards all the time? Because there is no room between red line and blue line to get through for them. This is not a system it is just passing to the open player because teams are trapping us. Listen to Matty after last game he explains it very clearly. They don't want to give up puck possession so they keep passing it backwards to open man.

Another way to beat this is to force other team to bring in more forecheckers. Just play with puck for like 5 minutes in our end and crowds will start to BOOOOOO. The refs will force other team to attack. or they may call a delay of game penalty on us too. But bottom line Dubie did not construct a team to play this type of game.[/

 

[Wafflewhipper]

How many times have we seen this lol. Its just unacceptable for any nhl players to look like this and it has happen lots in many many games. Our own zone play is so terrible in the blink of an eye. All goes well then something like this happens. Structure ha

Tell me how Barrie can be that out to lunch. Disgusting if it happens once if you ask me.lol

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Trying to save myself explaing this with this article i will post. This is plain old hockey 101 explained nicely. It is really simple and formed off of defensive position by all on the ice in you end. As you will see it says nothing of multiple speed killing drop passes when they are not necessarily the only option. Forward firward the puck and skate and work and yes eat a puck on the wall if you have to. Its pretty shocking what we are seeing actually. Its a joke and killing us actually.

The Winger's 4-Step Execution Plan for Successful Breakouts in Hockey - BuiltForHockey.com

 

[stickty111]

Great coach. He has done a great job with this team.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I don't think it's realistic that a coach with Boudreau's resume takes a job as an assistant, especially to a rookie coach.

Boudreau as head coach, now that's another story, would love to see that happen.

I think you are getting carried away. Keefe is fine, he needs to make adjustments and be reactive moreso in his approach would suffice no? Haha no no, I don’t want a coaching change

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Great coach. He has done a great job with this team.

I agree. Has to stop the drop though

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think you are getting carried away. Keefe is fine, he needs to make adjustments and be reactive moreso in his approach would suffice no? Haha no no, I don’t want a coaching change

I'm not close enough to the team to know if a changes is needed, plus it's too early to tell anyway. Let's see if we win the cup first before we talk about a coaching change.

Now having said all that, IF it's true that immaturity is a big problem with the team, that would suggest we need someone who commands authority, as in not a rookie coach. As far as Boudreau, I'll admit I don't know a ton about coaches and all I really know about him is that he has had a lot of experience, a fair bit of success and he loves the Leafs like crazy. He also hates MTL with a passion so basically he's my kind of guy.

 

[likecheese]

Why do you think they are skating and passing backwards all the time? Because there is no room between red line and blue line to get through for them. This is not a system it is just passing to the open player because teams are trapping us. Listen to Matty after last game he explains it very clearly. They don't want to give up puck possession so they keep passing it backwards to open man.

Another way to beat this is to force other team to bring in more forecheckers. Just play with puck for like 5 minutes in our end and crowds will start to BOOOOOO. The refs will force other team to attack. or they may call a delay of game penalty on us too. But bottom line Dubie did not construct a team to play this type of game.

They skate it backwards to avoid the initial forechecker (usually one guy), largely as a result of their inept passing, usually the defence. By the time they manage to work it up to the neutral zone and center ice after 13 passes, where they meet 3 more guys, they can barely reach center line in time to dump it in with almost no forecheck (unless it's Hyman, Nylander, or Matthews).
That just about sums up their offensive "strategy" in their 3 games out west, it was gross.

 

[Cleetus]

Great coach. He has done a great job with this team.

yes keeping the lines stagnant on this road trip where we only scored 3 goals in 3 games... he is the best!, if Babcock would of not changed the lines you would be posting negative about him every chance you got, what a joke... great job he is not better than what we had....

 

[JT AM da real deal]

They skate it backwards to avoid the initial forechecker (usually one guy), largely as a result of their inept passing, usually the defence. By the time they manage to work it up to the neutral zone and center ice after 13 passes, where they meet 3 more guys, they can barely reach center line in time to dump it in with almost no forecheck (unless it's Hyman, Nylander, or Matthews).
That just about sums up their offensive "strategy" in their 3 games out west, it was gross.

When they encounter the trap between the red line and blue line they just turn around again and reload with another backwards pass. Bottom line the lanes never open up because of the trap. It is designed that way where you have to beat a guy along the wall. These places our young Leaf forwards don't like to go too. Kappy can just outskate people. Hyman just blows through people. Clifford can outmuscle people. Willy uses his edges and keeps guys off him until he makes a very quick change of direction which most NHLers can't handle. That's all we got in this kinda game. That's why I said put 3 of them together and play them every 2nd shift and we will break the trap and score. Then teams have to change strategy and send in 2/3 guys to forecheck. We can handle that because it spreads da ice and leaves lots of lanes open for our breakout.

 

[Pookie]

Why do you think they are skating and passing backwards all the time? Because there is no room between red line and blue line to get through for them. This is not a system it is just passing to the open player because teams are trapping us. Listen to Matty after last game he explains it very clearly. They don't want to give up puck possession so they keep passing it backwards to open man.

Another way to beat this is to force other team to bring in more forecheckers. Just play with puck for like 5 minutes in our end and crowds will start to BOOOOOO. The refs will force other team to attack. or they may call a delay of game penalty on us too. But bottom line Dubie did not construct a team to play this type of game.

Just like this, almost a decade ago.

 

[IPS]

Who gives a f*** how long Keefe is signed for or whether he's interim or not? Is the money coming out of your pocket or something?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Just like this, almost a decade ago.

Yep the Flyers did the right thing. Just wait for some forecheck. When teams drop back 4 like that they are just waiting for the attacking team to lose puck on breakout with a pass so they can gain a 2 on 1 advantage. It is terrible hockey but many inferior skill teams do it to get wins. It is the only way the are going to win. So they do it. So we should have just waited out all 3 west coast teams and played 3 0-0 games and got 3 points. and then on 3 on 3 and shootout used our advantage. Well we didn't do it in our 1 chances but more often than not we will get the extra point.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

They skate it backwards to avoid the initial forechecker (usually one guy), largely as a result of their inept passing, usually the defence. By the time they manage to work it up to the neutral zone and center ice after 13 passes, where they meet 3 more guys, they can barely reach center line in time to dump it in with almost no forecheck (unless it's Hyman, Nylander, or Matthews).
That just about sums up their offensive "strategy" in their 3 games out west, it was gross.

Yeshh its gross ha. Thats not even sarcasm you wrote there. Its nuts on

 

[Wafflewhipper]

When they encounter the trap between the red line and blue line they just turn around again and reload with another backwards pass. Bottom line the lanes never open up because of the trap. It is designed that way where you have to beat a guy along the wall. These places our young Leaf forwards don't like to go too. Kappy can just outskate people. Hyman just blows through people. Clifford can outmuscle people. Willy uses his edges and keeps guys off him until he makes a very quick change of direction which most NHLers can't handle. That's all we got in this kinda game. That's why I said put 3 of them together and play them every 2nd shift and we will break the trap and score. Then teams have to change strategy and send in 2/3 guys to forecheck. We can handle that because it spreads da ice and leaves lots of lanes open for our breakout.

Nah you beat that right in your own zone and taking the short boards and keeping your center defending the center. In the extreme you could plant both your wingers on the walls each side and force the defense to cover by staying high on the and the drop pass could be to the center in a give and go as the winger explodes in to open ice for the pass from the center or a dump in that you have good ice on. This is become a farce.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Can't do that because the Ducks left the ice open on 1 side. So it forces you to go down that side. Then forward keeps gap so you have to try to beat defender at blue line wide which we never do (except 3 guys I mentioned) as no room in centre. And we can't dump and chase successfully because we don't have personnel to get the puck back. So what we did is assess the hit coming at blue line and turn around and pass back to our defense and reload. and reload. and reload. and reload. and reload. and reload. and reload. I watched this sad sack of a game. It was worst hockey I have seen this year except for Canes game which was worse even due to no effort. Then we we fumble puck Ducks nail Matty who panics and makes blind pass to Henrique for easy goal. Game over. Ducks played like crap but they beat us 2-1. Trap game won da day.

 

[likecheese]

Yeshh its gross ha. Thats not even sarcasm you wrote there. Its nuts on

That 2nd game against Pitt on the Thurs night was a total aberration. They moved the puck quickly with short, crisp passes and constant motion followed by a dogged forecheck.
I've never seen anything like that from this team, how was it even possible?
I should dig up the video from that game and put it in a vault, we may never see it again.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

That 2nd game against Pitt on the Thurs night was a total aberration. They moved the puck quickly with short, crisp passes and constant motion followed by a dogged forecheck.
I've never seen anything like that from this team, how was it even possible?
I should dig up the video from that game and put it in a vault, we may never see it again.

Lol but hopefully we see it lots

 

[Pookie]

Can't do that because the Ducks left the ice open on 1 side. So it forces you to go down that side. Then forward keeps gap so you have to try to beat defender at blue line wide which we never do (except 3 guys I mentioned) as no room in centre. And we can't dump and chase successfully because we don't have personnel to get the puck back. So what we did is assess the hit coming at blue line and turn around and pass back to our defense and reload. and reload. and reload. and reload. and reload. and reload. and reload. I watched this sad sack of a game. It was worst hockey I have seen this year except for Canes game which was worse even due to no effort. Then we we fumble puck Ducks nail Matty who panics and makes blind pass to Henrique for easy goal. Game over. Ducks played like crap but they beat us 2-1. Trap game won da day.

Sadly... one option is to get the red line and dump it in on goaltender and either force him to play the puck or get a whistle for a face off.

The other way you could get around it is to come at them with speed... like an NFL kick off.... gain the red line as a group and flip the puck into the corner or hammer it in for a rebound off the wall... either way it’s a dump and chase with speed... not the way the visionaries built this bad boy.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Sadly... one option is to get the red line and dump it in on goaltender and either force him to play the puck or get a whistle for a face off.

The other way you could get around it is to come at them with speed... like an NFL kick off.... gain the red line as a group and flip the puck into the corner or hammer it in for a rebound off the wall... either way it’s a dump and chase with speed... not the way the visionaries built this bad boy.

Yeah safer play against trap is to fire at net. Maybe 1 goes in if we get like 40 of them. But trying to go 5 guys guns a blazing is what the trapper wants. all that has to happen is a blocked shot or poke check and a breakaway or 2 on 1 results. These teams play for a mistake or two. That's all they need is a couple chances. It is sh*t hockey and refs need to call the trapper teams for an new infraction which will stop it. If you have 4 guys between red line and blue line for over 2 seconds you get a NEW penalty. It is very simple to stop this BS. No one enjoys this type of hockey. But it achieves its goal of keeping less talented teams in games where they should otherwise lose big.

 

[Pookie]

Yeah safer play against trap is to fire at net. Maybe 1 goes in if we get like 40 of them. But trying to go 5 guys guns a blazing is what the trapper wants. all that has to happen is a blocked shot or poke check and a breakaway or 2 on 1 results. These teams play for a mistake or two. That's all they need is a couple chances. It is sh*t hockey and refs need to call the trapper teams for an new infraction which will stop it. If you have 4 guys between red line and blue line for over 2 seconds you get a NEW penalty. It is very simple to stop this BS. No one enjoys this type of hockey. But it achieves its goal of keeping less talented teams in games where they should otherwise lose big.

Under the current rules, we are stuck with this.

Keep in mind, we play a 1–3-1 at times as well. It works as a defensive system.

Debates over beers with the boys usually centre around 3 things when we are trying to solve this problem. Here they are:

1. What if there was no offside?

Would that fundamentally change the dynamic of countering the 1-3-1 or Left Wing Lock?

You could position your forwards deeper in the zone such they they would overwhelm the 1 defender.

If you did it, would teams just collapse the net sooner?

2. What if you allowed.... brace for it.... obstruction again?

Don’t think defensive obstruction... think Lacrosse.

Where you could effectively box out defenders and prevent them from getting involved in the play.

And lastly....

3. More beer.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Toronto Maple Leafs head coach Sheldon Keefe and Toronto Raptors head coach Nick Nurse are In Conversation with Ron MacLean. The two compare their coaching styles and who influenced them the most as their careers progressed.