Player Discussion Shea Weber Part II

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Theodore450

Registered User
Sep 10, 2013
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What he inherited was more than fine. Of course, revisionist history will skew that, but people were recently discussing that in other threads as well.
Go back to old threads, you will see people talk of Tinordi as an untouchable. Kristo was still believed to become a good pick up. Beaulieu had moved down and it was a complete blessing for him to be available to us. Leblanc was coming off a 22pt 31gp rookie year in the AHL and looked decent on our bottom lines, there was no reason to believe he was going to be hot garbage when Bergevin took over.
It's very little different than our current situation. Mete and Juulsen could very well be the new Tinordi and Beaulieu. Poe can be Leblanc. The addition is Suzuki, he's the one that really makes us more interesting, but then he was added because of Patches, who Bergey inherited.

So no, you're not being very objective here. You just tried to paint a very bad and bleek picture of what Bergevin inherited, not mentioned his many wrongdoings, and now applaud him because...well..Habs are a bubble team and have a couple nice prospects (which you would expect to be the case after finishing in the bottom 10 two out of three years...but hey..again..why mention that) .
Well clearly what he inherited wasn’t good that my point. There’s no comparison between Juulsen and anything we had before. Josh brooks is on another level than Beaulieu and suzuki is better than anything we had at F. The reason he has nice prospect is because what’s happening is what should have been done. He should have tanked. We didn’t have a complete team. I’m sorry but Plek as a top c, the skillless Pac as your top fwr
The one dimensional Subban as your 1D doesn’t win you anything. I don’t care how good price is or how good Markov is. That teams not winning a cup. And no prospect was coming to save them. So yeah call it bleak. He inherited a crappy pool and a serverly flawed team.
I’m not gonna applaud him for his bad moves like allowing Therien to ruin Chuky
Or drafting Mccaron
Or signing Alzner
Or literally when he wasted FA by adding Murray parros
Holding Boullion too long
But I’ll aplaud him for where he’s at now, and that’s a team that’s looking to keep getting better.
Has he made mistake yes, but he’s Been patient building assets While dropping an NHL caliber roster each year. His mistake was not tearing it down from the start. And I’ll stick to that.
 

Cobra Commander

Registered User
Sep 30, 2017
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Why would you be still mad a homegrown superstar who wanted to stay a Hab for life and is still in his prime was traded away for a downgrade???
Stop it with that shit! Weber is our captain and Subban is long gone. Right now Weber is still the better overall player. That may change one day. We’re dam lucky to have Weber. Live in the now. Weber is carrying the defense. It remains to be seen who will outlast who.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
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Stop it with that ****! Weber is our captain and Subban is long gone. Right now Weber is still the better overall player. That may change one day. We’re dam lucky to have Weber. Live in the now. Weber is carrying the defense. It remains to be seen who will outlast who.
After trading Roy for Thibault, fans like you said we're lucky to have Jocelyn too, that it remains to be seen if the hardware winner is going to be overtaken by the return we got for him. Some humility would do such people good.

Allow fans to be annoyed and upset at losing a superstar. Allow them to come to like the return jn a natural way. Weber's a good player, a great player, but we don't have to praise the trade or the GM or pretend he's better or more important or more valuable than Subban. You want it both ways and it is nauseating.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
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Dude your wack like I’m convinced your a troll
Everyone who calls out my awful points and scrutinized my horrible arguments is a ''wack" troll!!


Bergevin HAD INHERITED NOTHING GOOD and he should've rebuilt but he didn't because PRICE was TOO GOOD ACTUALLY!
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
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Well clearly what he inherited wasn’t good that my point. There’s no comparison between Juulsen and anything we had before. Josh brooks is on another level than Beaulieu and suzuki is better than anything we had at F. The reason he has nice prospect is because what’s happening is what should have been done. He should have tanked. We didn’t have a complete team. I’m sorry but Plek as a top c, the skillless Pac as your top fwr
The one dimensional Subban as your 1D doesn’t win you anything. I don’t care how good price is or how good Markov is. That teams not winning a cup. And no prospect was coming to save them. So yeah call it bleak. He inherited a crappy pool and a serverly flawed team.
I’m not gonna applaud him for his bad moves like allowing Therien to ruin Chuky
Or drafting Mccaron
Or signing Alzner
Or literally when he wasted FA by adding Murray parros
Holding Boullion too long
But I’ll aplaud him for where he’s at now, and that’s a team that’s looking to keep getting better.
Has he made mistake yes, but he’s Been patient building assets While dropping an NHL caliber roster each year. His mistake was not tearing it down from the start. And I’ll stick to that.

Again, you're offering very little objectivity.
He didn't inherit crap.
He had some very good players, but you're more interested in crapping on them or flat out ignore them for the sake of your argument.

You talk about the bad pool..it's all about timing. Just like he managed to get value out of Colberg despite him not becoming much. Had he not waited until the value of our guys turned to hot garbage, he could have gotten some return out of them.

But when you say things like “I dont care how good Price or Markov was”..well it shows how little objectivity you bring here.
 

ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
28,604
5,423
Been following it. He inherited a lineup with players like

Gomez
Kaberle
Moen
Diaz
Bourque
DD
Gionta
Pleck
Markov
Emelin
Gorges

All signed to term

Inherited Trash coaching

Absolutely no prospects of value besides
Gallagher

If you want to you can claim
Dumont
Tinordi
Beaulieu
Bournival
Kristo

As valued (maybe I’m missing somebody)

He still in my eyes made the right pick with Chucky Especially at the time where #1 center and actual talent was needed. Who through his own failures couldn’t be a C

Team went well on his first season so he flipped the failing Colberg he drafted for vanek.

He’s clearly turned over this entire organization. This is now a talented, fast and hard working team . He’s has the best coaches he can get while working around his bosses restrictions. Deep pool with talent, still has his future picks, running the youngest team in the league.

So please go on about how I haven’t watched this team for long, all because your probably still mad about a Subban trade
Michel Therrien must be the very best coach in the history of the NHL to have good regular season with such a shitty group of players...
 

ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
28,604
5,423
Well clearly what he inherited wasn’t good that my point. There’s no comparison between Juulsen and anything we had before. Josh brooks is on another level than Beaulieu and suzuki is better than anything we had at F. The reason he has nice prospect is because what’s happening is what should have been done. He should have tanked. We didn’t have a complete team. I’m sorry but Plek as a top c, the skillless Pac as your top fwr
The one dimensional Subban as your 1D doesn’t win you anything. I don’t care how good price is or how good Markov is. That teams not winning a cup. And no prospect was coming to save them. So yeah call it bleak. He inherited a crappy pool and a serverly flawed team.
I’m not gonna applaud him for his bad moves like allowing Therien to ruin Chuky
Or drafting Mccaron
Or signing Alzner
Or literally when he wasted FA by adding Murray parros
Holding Boullion too long
But I’ll aplaud him for where he’s at now, and that’s a team that’s looking to keep getting better.
Has he made mistake yes, but he’s Been patient building assets While dropping an NHL caliber roster each year. His mistake was not tearing it down from the start. And I’ll stick to that.
now since it's a Weber thread and you needed to crap on ex-players just to make actual Habs look better...

please, tell us, what did the Habs win with Weber as their #1D ? ?
 
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WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
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now since it's a Weber thread and you needed to crap on ex-players just to make actual Habs look better...

please, tell us, what did the Habs win with Weber as their #1D ? ?
Two entire playoff games!!

And next year maybe they'll make the playoffs again and maybe they'll win three, or even four and win an ENTIRE playoff series!

The Habs are in a good place and have prospects who could turn into NHLers and have a team with certain fast and young players (as opposed to every other team at any moment). Therefore the current reality is the best possible one and Shea Weber is the best totem of this best reality!
 

Scintillating10

Registered User
Jun 15, 2012
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Stop it with that ****! Weber is our captain and Subban is long gone. Right now Weber is still the better overall player. That may change one day. We’re dam lucky to have Weber. Live in the now. Weber is carrying the defense. It remains to be seen who will outlast who.
Weber is one of best players in game. Considering leadership
 

ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
28,604
5,423
Weber is one of best players in game. Considering leadership
then why in hell do posters keep saying Habs NEED a partner for SW, isnt he good enough to carry a below average D (like Markov did with Komisarek)
 

BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
20,498
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then why in hell do posters keep saying Habs NEED a partner for SW, isnt he good enough to carry a below average D (like Markov did with Komisarek)

Komisarek was decent for a couple of years. His best seasons he was light years ahead of the guys we gave Weber since he got here, except for Markov, but that move came at a cost of downgrading the second and third pairs.

But could everyone please stop with the hyperbole with respect to him and the guy he was traded for? It was a hockey trade, it was 30 months ago, and he's ours now so let's cheer for him and value what he brings without making him into God or pretending he is a slug who can only bang some pucks, or that the other guy was a cancer or a guy who will be given a trophy named after him before he even retires.

Du calme, svp.
 
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ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
28,604
5,423
Komisarek was decent for a couple of years. His best seasons he was light years ahead of the guys we gave Weber since he got here, except for Markov, but that move came at a cost of downgrading the second and third pairs.

But could everyone please stop with the hyperbole with respect to him and the guy he was traded for? It was a hockey trade, it was 30 months ago, and he's ours now so let's cheer for him and value what he brings without making him into God or pretending he is a slug who can only bang some pucks, or that the other guy was a cancer or a guy who will be given a trophy named after him before he even retires.

Du calme, svp.
well, I have as much respect for them as they have for me.
 

BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
20,498
8,810
I already explained why your conclusion is flawed here.
A lot of reason can go into explaining why they'd win one PO round, it's not necessarily because we'd be better. You think it's a PO bubble team, that means you think it's very possible they can make the POs. So if they make the POs, well, nothing surprising as you call them a PO bubble team now.
If they get passed the 1st round, well, who knows, again, I already listed a bunch of various reasons that it could happen without us actually being better.
Stop making definitive conclusions when so much can go into why we beat a team.

I readily concede that these things are not automatic.
  • You could be in the Stanley Cup final one year and get pasted many times the next year.
  • You could be in the Conference final one year with a young team and then your owner screws up over and over again
  • You could have the best player in the game for a decade, get to the final in his 3rd year, win the Cup in his 4th year, and then not get back to a Conference final for seven more seasons before winning two more Cups
All this being said, I think the odds are better that a young team with talent will improve rather than regress, especially if they have all their picks, and more, and lots of cap space, to continue to improve the team. Many of the teams that regress have budget problems or have traded picks with nothing to show for them. With money and picks available, improvement is doable.
 
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WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
Komisarek was decent for a couple of years. His best seasons he was light years ahead of the guys we gave Weber since he got here, except for Markov, but that move came at a cost of downgrading the second and third pairs.

But could everyone please stop with the hyperbole with respect to him and the guy he was traded for? It was a hockey trade, it was 30 months ago, and he's ours now so let's cheer for him and value what he brings without making him into God or pretending he is a slug who can only bang some pucks, or that the other guy was a cancer or a guy who will be given a trophy named after him before he even retires.

Du calme, svp.
I absolutely agree with the bolded statement. And like all the praise Domi has earned, I'm sure many Habs fans who were reticent to jump on the Weber Wagon will happily cheer on the Habs' captain and best defenseman.

What certain Habs fans insist on, however, is something I've never witnessed before. A ceaseless and ongoing insistence that he's a God-Man and The Best Leader and his mere presence is a blessing on the Habs. I didn't see such effervescence for Koivu or Kovalev or any other good player the Habs have had. And they brought more success to the Habs and were part of the Habs fabric for longer than Weber. I really don't like being told that a player is better than he is and we should be grateful to have him, especially not when he was acquired in exchange for an actually better and more accomplished player.

If he's good, if he's as super as made out to be - let his play and performance speak for itself. He's been dynamite since his return, let's cheer that on without implying he is Hercules with skates on.
 

Habs Icing

Formerly Onice
Jan 17, 2004
19,520
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Montreal
1- Kotka is not high end. You need to seperate potential from actual being there.
2- Sure, and he's 33. How much longer will that last is unsure.
3- Price has not played high end.
4- Domi and Drouin, if they keep up their pace, sure. They still need to redo next year to be proven.
5- Gallagher is not high end.
Your first four points are debatable but I went along with your argument. The highlighted sentence is where you lost me. That's when I realized you are caught in a quagmire of constantly devaluing everything connected with this team. If you consider Gallagher not to be a high end right winger then there's really no reason for me to continue reading. That has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've read on this forum and I've read some doozies.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
Your first four points are debatable but I went along with your argument. The highlighted sentence is where you lost me. That's when I realized you are caught in a quagmire of constantly devaluing everything connected with this team. If you consider Gallagher not to be a high end right winger then there's really no reason for me to continue reading. That has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've read on this forum and I've read some doozies.
Is it really ridiculous not to think a ~55pt winger as high-end??

I like Gallagher a lot but he's no Tarasenko.
 

Habs Icing

Formerly Onice
Jan 17, 2004
19,520
11,178
Montreal
Is it really ridiculous not to think a ~55pt winger as high-end??

I like Gallagher a lot but he's no Tarasenko.
The point wasn't whether he is a Tarasenko. The point was that he isn't high end. Tarasenko is also not a McDavid. How long do you want to play that game?

Simply looking at stats reveals a lazy analysis. Watch the game and then come back. Gainey also had crappy stats. Some idiots inducted him into the HOF. Other idiots voted him as the 86th best player in history. Gallagher may not be HOF material but he is definitely a high end right winger.
 
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Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
Your first four points are debatable but I went along with your argument. The highlighted sentence is where you lost me. That's when I realized you are caught in a quagmire of constantly devaluing everything connected with this team. If you consider Gallagher not to be a high end right winger then there's really no reason for me to continue reading. That has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've read on this forum and I've read some doozies.
Gallagher has broken the 50pt mark once in his career..hitting 54...and I'm the one making a ridiculous statement?
Gallagher is excellent at what he does, but no, he's not a high end talent when speaking generally among his peers.
Good one indeed. I know Habs fan love to prop up our guys..but that's a f***ing new one. Gallagher a high end talent...lol No wonder this organization doesn't feel the pressure to win cups.
 

DangerDave

Mete's Shot
Feb 8, 2015
9,732
5,068
T.O
now since it's a Weber thread and you needed to crap on ex-players just to make actual Habs look better...

please, tell us, what did the Habs win with Weber as their #1D ? ?
What did Nashville win on a stacked team? Nothing matters if you don't win the cup. They can still do it of course but until they do, this isn't a valid argument.
 
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