Player Discussion Shea Weber Part II

[Kriss E]

Stars should never be exposed to offersheets. Poile should have made signing him a priority.

He convinced his owner to match the o/s, so obviously the money was available, he just got caught with his pants down.

And yes i stand corrected on the arbitration, although no decision was given.

Yes well regardless of what you say, reality is arbitration is quite common.
Also, nobody forced Weber to sign an offer sheet and it is pretty freaking clear that Poile never wanted Weber to go anywhere. So maybe stop pretending like you know anything about these negotiations and point the finger at anyone.

And no, it's not the same as saying Weber wanted out. He signed the offer sheet. It was clearly designed for Nsh to have a very tough time to match. He tried to escape. I am not criticizing him for it, he was completely within his rights.

 

[Frank Drebin]

offersheet... you mean the offersheet dumb Weber signed ? or maybe Poile matched the offersheet before Weber signed it ? or maybe it's Nashville and Philly that negociated bonuses benefitting Weber only ?

obtuse you were saying right ?
(you're working ****ing hard to absolve Weber of all responsibility - offly enough, you're not putting any effort to absolve PK for the arbitration/bridge/etc)

I'm totally, 100% absolving Weber from any responsibility in signing that contract.

It is the general managers job to manage team finances, not the #1 defenseman.

As for Subban, during negotiations things get ugly, look at leafs fans turning on nylander.

It happens, and we aren't privy to the details of the negotiations, so its easy to get frustrated.

That said, being a few years removed from the ordeal, it's fair to say that mb fumbled both negotiations in a huge way, and subban and his agent gave him what he deserved. Subban s huge contract was bergevins fault.

 

[Kriss E]

And no, i don't think Weber himself negotiated the intricacies of the contract like bonuses. Obviously that was done by Philadelphia's side.

Lol..what? You think Weber did not negotiate bonuses?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Yes well regardless of what you say, reality is arbitration is quite common.
Also, nobody forced Weber to sign an offer sheet and it is pretty freaking clear that Poile never wanted Weber to go anywhere. So maybe stop pretending like you know anything about these negotiations and point the finger at anyone.

And no, it's not the same as saying Weber wanted out. He signed the offer sheet. It was clearly designed for Nsh to have a very tough time to match. He tried to escape. I am not criticizing him for it, he was completely within his rights.

Why would anyone say Weber was forced to sign that offersheet?

Even if he did try to escape like you say, doesn't that make poile matching look even worse in hindsight?

 

[Kriss E]

I'm totally, 100% absolving Weber from any responsibility in signing that contract.

It is the general managers job to manage team finances, not the #1 defenseman.

As for Subban, during negotiations things get ugly, look at leafs fans turning on nylander.

It happens, and we aren't privy to the details of the negotiations, so its easy to get frustrated.

That said, being a few years removed from the ordeal, it's fair to say that mb fumbled both negotiations in a huge way, and subban and his agent gave him what he deserved. Subban s huge contract was bergevins fault.

Quite the contradiction.

It is 100% not his fault....We have no idea what the details! All I know is it wasn't his fault! Lolll
Way to be objective here.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Lol..what? You think Weber did not negotiate bonuses?

The crippling nature of them to a strapped team like Nashville was clearly orchestrated by Philly.

You think Weber was the mastermind behind the bonus payout structure?

 

[Kriss E]

Why would anyone say Weber was forced to sign that offersheet?

Even if he did try to escape like you say, doesn't that make poile matching look even worse in hindsight?

If Weber's priority was to stay in Nsh, then he wouldn't have signed that offer sheet.
Why would Poile look bad matching? He retained a very valuable asset, that he managed to flip for a better younger Dman a few years after. Was a great move.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I'm totally, 100% absolving Weber from any responsibility in signing that contract.

It is the general managers job to manage team finances, not the #1 defenseman.

As for Subban, during negotiations things get ugly, look at leafs fans turning on nylander.

It happens, and we aren't privy to the details of the negotiations, so its easy to get frustrated.

That said, being a few years removed from the ordeal, it's fair to say that mb fumbled both negotiations in a huge way, and subban and his agent gave him what he deserved. Subban s huge contract was bergevins fault.

Said it yourself...

Weber : 100% on the GM
Subban : its... 100% on the GM right ?

Subban did not "give" whatever the GM deserved, it's 100% on the GM to manage team finances. Just like Weber, Subban is a talented but Pejorative Slured Dmen who just happened to sign whatever he was told to sign. Neither dmen took part in the nego, neither dmen had demands, nope... it's all 1 way, GM offer - player sign THAT'S IT!

 

[ECWHSWI]

The crippling nature of them to a strapped team like Nashville was clearly orchestrated by Philly.

You think Weber was the mastermind behind the bonus payout structure?

based on what ?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Said it yourself...

Weber : 100% on the GM
Subban : its... 100% on the GM right ?

Subban did not "give" whatever the GM deserved, it's 100% on the GM to manage team finances. Just like Weber, Subban is a talented but ******ed Dmen who just happened to sign whatever he was told to sign. Neither dmen took part in the nego, neither dmen had demands, nope... it's all 1 way, GM offer - player sign THAT'S IT!

Agree. So what are we arguing about?

 

[Kriss E]

The crippling nature of them to a strapped team like Nashville was clearly orchestrated by Philly.

You think Weber was the mastermind behind the bonus payout structure?

I think they both agreed that they needed to structure a deal that made it very difficult for Nashville to match, ya.
''So Weber’s camp sent out feelers, looking for teams that had the desire to trade for him and the ability to offer sheet him, for leverage.''
Flyers’ Shea Weber offer sheet fallout, five years later

The idea that Weber had nothing to do with this and was just out fishing or minding his business, and suddenly the Flyers just orchestrated everything is just completely moronic and naive, no offense.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Agree. So what are we arguing about?

I suggest you re-read the post you quoted

 

[Frank Drebin]

I think they both agreed that they needed to structure a deal that made it very difficult for Nashville to match, ya.
''So Weber’s camp sent out feelers, looking for teams that had the desire to trade for him and the ability to offer sheet him, for leverage.''
Flyers’ Shea Weber offer sheet fallout, five years later

The idea that Weber had nothing to do with this and was just out fishing or minding his business, and suddenly the Flyers just orchestrated everything is just completely moronic and naive, no offense.

Why would Philly send out an offer sheet that would be easy to match? They wanted Weber. They wanted nashville to not be able to match. Weber just wanted to get paid. Obviously his agent went out to solicit offers.

Just like if we were to offersheet nylander. We want to make things difficult for Toronto, while nylander just wants to get paid.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I suggest you re-read the post you quoted

Nope I'm good thanks. Been down this road with you too many times.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Nope I'm good thanks. Been down this road with you too many times.

sure did, you prefer to think players have no demands, that NTC/NMC are offered by teams managers, that players are idiots (their agents too) who just sign whatever is in front of them...

you do that.


that's wrong but hey! if that's what you want to think you go ahead!

 

[Frank Drebin]

I think they both agreed that they needed to structure a deal that made it very difficult for Nashville to match, ya.
''So Weber’s camp sent out feelers, looking for teams that had the desire to trade for him and the ability to offer sheet him, for leverage.''
Flyers’ Shea Weber offer sheet fallout, five years later

The idea that Weber had nothing to do with this and was just out fishing or minding his business, and suddenly the Flyers just orchestrated everything is just completely moronic and naive, no offense.

And even if what you are saying is 100% true, that Weber wanted out and he and his agent were the ones behind this evil offer sheet:






So what?


What point does this prove? Why are we talking about this 6 years after the fact?

 

[Kriss E]

Why would Philly send out an offer sheet that would be easy to match? They wanted Weber. They wanted nashville to not be able to match. Weber just wanted to get paid. Obviously his agent went out to solicit offers.

Just like if we were to offersheet nylander. We want to make things difficult for Toronto, while nylander just wants to get paid.

Why would Weber sign an offer sheet if he didn't want to leave?
We wouldn't want to just make it difficult for Toronto, we want to give an offer Nylander would agree to as well, and we won't know what he's looking for unless we negotiate with him.

It's not a one way street man. I have no idea why you are hell bent on trying to make it seem like Weber had nothing to do with this negotiation. It's quite silly.

 

[Kriss E]

And even if what you are saying is 100% true, that Weber wanted out and he and his agent were the ones behind this evil offer sheet:






So what?


What point does this prove? Why are we talking about this 6 years after the fact?

So nothing. I said in many of my posts that Weber is not at fault of anything.
But you never discussed this. You just jumped in and said Weber had 100% nothing to do with this, which was silly.
So you were wrong and we can move on.

 

[Frank Drebin]

So nothing. I said in many of my posts that Weber is not at fault of anything.
But you never discussed this. You just jumped in and said Weber had 100% nothing to do with this, which was silly.
So you were wrong and we can move on.

I didn't really say what you're suggesting. In fact you and I both say he isn't at fault. If you're looking for someone to blame though look at his crappy GM.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I didn't really say what you're suggesting. In fact you and I both say he isn't at fault. If you're looking for someone to blame though look at his crappy GM.

except you're trying to insinuate Weber had no say in the nego - outside deciding to sign or not. and THIS is false.

 

[Frank Drebin]

except you're trying to insinuate Weber had no say in the nego - outside deciding to sign or not. and THIS is false.

Even if what you are saying is true, and there is no way to prove it either way, what does it matter? (Besides being David Poile's fault of course.)

 

[ECWHSWI]

Even if what you are saying is true, and there is no way to prove it either way, what does it matter? (Besides being David Poile's fault of course.)

hum, cause I dunno, maybe... maybe the 2nd bolded is wrong.


remember though, minutes ago you were talking in absolutes, now suddenly there's no way to prove either way...

 

[Frank Drebin]

hum, cause I dunno, maybe... maybe the 2nd bolded is wrong.


remember though, minutes ago you were talking in absolutes, now suddenly there's no way to prove either way...

Loosening my stance because i realize how pointless this discussion is.

You would agree whether I'm "right"or you're "right" , it means nothing with respect to webers character, right?

But yeah, poile really crapped the bed on that one, that's not up for debate.

 

[jaffy27]

Weber did not have to agree to this deal, and according to some reports, Weber is the one that sent fillers out to teams to see who would be willing to trade for him. When that failed, option B became signing an offer sheet.
So ya, of course, Philly is not going to sign Weber at a 5y/4M deal that Nsh will obviously match. Why in the hell would they ever do that. They will structure a deal that they believe NSH won't match and that's exactly what they did. Weber didn't have to agree to it though. He did because he wanted out.
Doesn't make him a villain. Totally within his rights. Many players want out, nothing wrong with that. Not sure why some people have a hard time admitting this...

Of course he didn’t....110m$ makes people do things out of character though

 

[Kriss E]

Of course he didn’t....110m$ makes people do things out of character though

Especially when you're the one sending it fillers...
So much for his awesome character then...