Player Discussion Shea Weber Part II

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Oct 26, 2018
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Weber size, how he use his body, slapshot and vision of the ice are top end talent. And the Guy dont need extra skating at all or to be faster. He let the other fast skaters do the job for him while he use all these stronger assets at the right moment. He understand the qualities of his teamates on Ice more when he is on the Ice, that's above average intelligence top end talent.

He's better at this than most defensmen in the league.

That is what make him so good. He understand his limitations and assets. He's like a fine vintage.

Something Mike Rielly dont understand quite good. Or Sherbak for an exemple. Or McCaron.

But something Schlemko and Petry already understood à while ago. Mete Will.

Something Benn, Ouellet lack and are expandable for.

What is your opinion of Kulak so far?
 

Theodore450

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Sep 10, 2013
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Every team could always use more "high end talent" but it's not like we don't have any.

We have a franchise goalie who was a #5 overall who is hopefully getting back into form, we have a multiple event Team Canada level #1 defenceman who is good at both ends of the ice, we have two young and creative #3s overall who are under club control for 5-7 years at least, and another creative young guy with heart and hustle who is playing at a ppg pace and who was only drafted at #12 because he is small and has diabetes.

On top of that we have a 30 goal scorer and two 20-29 goal scorers, all in their mid to late twenties, and a #2D who is capable of 24 minutes and can also play both ends of the ice.

In addition to the top talent, we have two other first rounders who are reliable two-way support forwards, and another young first rounder on D. To top it off we have the equivalent of three first round picks turning pro next year.

We should continue to trade for a lot of picks and hopefully a guy like Brook becomes the next second round pick who stars in the league as a D.

But this is simply NOT a situation where we stink so much that we need another top-3 pick or we might lose our franchise.

There's lots to build on, and not only that, there is lots of cap room to make imaginative deals for either good roster players or good prospects, and/or to pick up a good solid UFA in the $5M range who will contribute.

We need a GM capable of taking this team that already has six elite roster players to the next level. I doubt that guy is Marc Bergevin.
How could you type all that out and then not give and props to the gm that literally put us in this situation. This man has done a fine job and we are built for sustained success
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Three months ago, I thought they would win less than 5 games through November and the coach would get fired. Things have changed. They still might be a bubble team. I think they will probably not make the playoffs. But I have to acknowledge that I might be wrong, and the improvement might come faster than I predicted before.0

If they win 28-30 more RS games out of the next 52 and win a 7 game series against a top team starting on the road, then they will have proven to be better than we think right now.

So I'd be doing cartwheels. And you'd be worried that we don't have 7-10 top players (remember there's three more coming)

Exactly. My good sir you understand hockey.
 

Kriss E

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May 3, 2007
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Three months ago, I thought they would win less than 5 games through November and the coach would get fired. Things have changed. They still might be a bubble team. I think they will probably not make the playoffs. But I have to acknowledge that I might be wrong, and the improvement might come faster than I predicted before.0

If they win 28-30 more RS games out of the next 52 and win a 7 game series against a top team starting on the road, then they will have proven to be better than we think right now.

So I'd be doing cartwheels. And you'd be worried that we don't have 7-10 top players (remember there's three more coming)

I already explained why your conclusion is flawed here.
A lot of reason can go into explaining why they'd win one PO round, it's not necessarily because we'd be better. You think it's a PO bubble team, that means you think it's very possible they can make the POs. So if they make the POs, well, nothing surprising as you call them a PO bubble team now.
If they get passed the 1st round, well, who knows, again, I already listed a bunch of various reasons that it could happen without us actually being better.
Stop making definitive conclusions when so much can go into why we beat a team.
 

Kriss E

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May 3, 2007
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Jeddah
How could you type all that out and then not give and props to the gm that literally put us in this situation. This man has done a fine job and we are built for sustained success
You obviously haven't followed this team closely over the years.
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
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Jeddah
Weber size, how he use his body, slapshot and vision of the ice are top end talent. And the Guy dont need extra skating at all or to be faster. He let the other fast skaters do the job for him while he use all these stronger assets at the right moment. He understand the qualities of his teamates on Ice more when he is on the Ice, that's above average intelligence top end talent.

He's better at this than most defensmen in the league.

That is what make him so good. He understand his limitations and assets. He's like a fine vintage.

Something Mike Rielly dont understand quite good. Or Sherbak for an exemple. Or McCaron.

But something Schlemko and Petry already understood à while ago. Mete Will.

Something Benn, Ouellet lack and are expandable for.

What is your opinion of Kulak so far?
Schlemko sucks. Badly.
 
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Theodore450

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Sep 10, 2013
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You obviously haven't followed this team closely over the years.
Been following it. He inherited a lineup with players like

Gomez
Kaberle
Moen
Diaz
Bourque
DD
Gionta
Pleck
Markov
Emelin
Gorges

All signed to term

Inherited Trash coaching

Absolutely no prospects of value besides
Gallagher

If you want to you can claim
Dumont
Tinordi
Beaulieu
Bournival
Kristo

As valued (maybe I’m missing somebody)

He still in my eyes made the right pick with Chucky Especially at the time where #1 center and actual talent was needed. Who through his own failures couldn’t be a C

Team went well on his first season so he flipped the failing Colberg he drafted for vanek.

He’s clearly turned over this entire organization. This is now a talented, fast and hard working team . He’s has the best coaches he can get while working around his bosses restrictions. Deep pool with talent, still has his future picks, running the youngest team in the league.

So please go on about how I haven’t watched this team for long, all because your probably still mad about a Subban trade
 
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The Gr8 Dane

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Jan 19, 2018
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Been following it. He inherited a lineup with players like

Gomez
Kaberle
Moen
Diaz
Bourque
DD
Gionta
Pleck
Markov
Emelin
Gorges

All signed to term

Inherited Trash coaching

Absolutely no prospects of value besides
Gallagher

If you want to you can claim
Dumont
Tinordi
Beaulieu
Bournival
Kristo

As valued (maybe I’m missing somebody)

He still in my eyes made the right pick with Chucky Especially at the time where #1 center and actual talent was needed. Who through his own failures couldn’t be a C

Team went well on his first season so he flipped the failing Colberg he drafted for vanek.

He’s clearly turned over this entire organization. This is now a talented, fast and hard working team . He’s has the best coaches he can get while working around his bosses restrictions. Deep pool with talent, still has his future picks, running the youngest team in the league.

So please go on about how I haven’t watched this team for long, all because your probably still mad about a Subban trade

Yikes
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
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So please go on about how I haven’t watched this team for long, all because your probably still mad about a Subban trade
Why would you be still mad a homegrown superstar who wanted to stay a Hab for life and is still in his prime was traded away for a downgrade???
 
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WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
He’s clearly turned over this entire organization. This is now a talented, fast and hard working team . He’s has the best coaches he can get while working around his bosses restrictions. Deep pool with talent, still has his future picks, running the youngest team in the league.
This team that has won two entire playoff games in the past three years is now talented and successful. This club that has produced not one 60 point scorer is flush with talent - deep in fact. Sly Lefebvre was fired only last year but look how good Bouchard, the best coach, is doing !!
 
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malton

Registered User
Feb 17, 2009
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Been following it. He inherited a lineup with players like

Gomez
Kaberle
Moen
Diaz
Bourque
DD
Gionta
Pleck
Markov
Emelin
Gorges

All signed to term

Inherited Trash coaching

Absolutely no prospects of value besides
Gallagher

If you want to you can claim
Dumont
Tinordi
Beaulieu
Bournival
Kristo

As valued (maybe I’m missing somebody)

He still in my eyes made the right pick with Chucky Especially at the time where #1 center and actual talent was needed. Who through his own failures couldn’t be a C

Team went well on his first season so he flipped the failing Colberg he drafted for vanek.

He’s clearly turned over this entire organization. This is now a talented, fast and hard working team . He’s has the best coaches he can get while working around his bosses restrictions. Deep pool with talent, still has his future picks, running the youngest team in the league.

So please go on about how I haven’t watched this team for long, all because your probably still mad about a Subban trade

Tinordi and Beaulieu had value. Plekanec and Markov had tremendous value. Lars Eller had value. We also had Patches, Subban and Price as cornerstones, with the 3rd overall pick.

This turnaround could have happened years before it did. We had the pillars in place to build a contender right off the hop, but instead of turning his assets into futures he decided to keep everybody in a lockout shortened year so that we could make the playoffs and get worked.

Bad asset management is what Bergevin will be known for. He's made a couple good moves this summer and seems to be turning it around, but that doesn't erase the years of ineptitude.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
with players like

Gomez
Kaberle
Moen
Diaz
Bourque
DD
Gionta
Pleck
Markov
Emelin
Gorges

All signed to term

Inherited Trash coaching
He never extended Moen, Emelin, DD, or Pleks. They had term when he got here.

What do you expect a boss to do with SCRUBS like that Markov, Pacioretty, Price, Eller, Subban... and only TWO compliance buy-outs... BERGEVIN DID THE BEST HE COULD!!!
 
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WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
How could you type all that out and then not give and props to the gm that literally put us in this situation. This man has done a fine job and we are built for sustained success
Winning two playoff games in three years is, going past the second round once in six years is... ACTUALLY GOOD!!
 
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Theodore450

Registered User
Sep 10, 2013
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This team that has won two entire playoff games in the past three years is now talented and successful. This club that has produced not one 60 point scorer is flush with talent - deep in fact. Sly Lefebvre was fired only last year but look how good Bouchard, the best coach, is doing !!
I agree with you it took longer that it should have. I for one hated MT and sly but at the end of the day, you don’t know what going on behind closed doors and what prevents hires and fires from being made
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
I agree with you it took longer that it should have. I for one hated MT and sly but at the end of the day, you don’t know what going on behind closed doors and what prevents hires and fires from being made
It was out of the GMs hands when he hired Therrien and Lefebvre - and then extended them and their assistants for many years!!

The GM is NOT responsible for ANYTHING expect the most recent win streak and the most recent successful trades. You don't know what happens behind closed doors afterall!!
 
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Theodore450

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It was out of the GMs hands when he hired Therrien and Lefebvre - and then extended them and their assistants for many years!!

The GM is NOT responsible for ANYTHING expect the most recent win streak and the most recent successful trades. You don't know what happens behind closed doors afterall!!
You good bud?
 
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Theodore450

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Sep 10, 2013
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Tinordi and Beaulieu had value. Plekanec and Markov had tremendous value. Lars Eller had value. We also had Patches, Subban and Price as cornerstones, with the 3rd overall pick.

This turnaround could have happened years before it did. We had the pillars in place to build a contender right off the hop, but instead of turning his assets into futures he decided to keep everybody in a lockout shortened year so that we could make the playoffs and get worked.

Bad asset management is what Bergevin will be known for. He's made a couple good moves this summer and seems to be turning it around, but that doesn't erase the years of ineptitude.
Personally I think we were never gonna win with that lineup and should have tanked from when he got here. That means trade everyone not named price. Sadly he stuck to his coaching because of Price
 

Theodore450

Registered User
Sep 10, 2013
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... But it isn't his fault!
Where in my entire post did I say he didn’t have faults? I lay out how he’s better than his predecessor and you fully use the “he makes no mistakes and has no faults” card ?
Your wack
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
Been following it. He inherited a lineup with players like

Gomez
Kaberle
Moen
Diaz
Bourque
DD
Gionta
Pleck
Markov
Emelin
Gorges

All signed to term

Inherited Trash coaching

Absolutely no prospects of value besides
Gallagher

If you want to you can claim
Dumont
Tinordi
Beaulieu
Bournival
Kristo

As valued (maybe I’m missing somebody)
He also had Gallagher, Galch, Cole, Subban, Price, Markov and Patches, but hey, why mention those guys?
He also had two buyout contracts that completely facilitated getting rid of his two worst contracts. But again...why mention that, it's not like we want objectivity here right?
He still in my eyes made the right pick with Chucky Especially at the time where #1 center and actual talent was needed. Who through his own failures couldn’t be a C
He definitely did make the right choice with Galch, and then used him on the wings for 4 years, but ya, it's all on him. It has nothing to do with management. It's not like they extended a mediocre small center and used him as the go-to offensive sheltered center. That definitely did-not-happen.

Objectivity..pfft...so overrated.

Team went well on his first season so he flipped the failing Colberg he drafted for vanek.
Vanek trade was great.
He’s clearly turned over this entire organization. This is now a talented, fast and hard working team . He’s has the best coaches he can get while working around his bosses restrictions. Deep pool with talent, still has his future picks, running the youngest team in the league.

So please go on about how I haven’t watched this team for long, all because your probably still mad about a Subban trade

I don't give two craps about the Subban trade. It was dumb but it's over and done with.

The Habs are a PO bubble team, if they miss the POs this year, it'll be 3 out of 4 years we don't make them. But yes, he's turned around this organization.

I said you haven't followed this team because anybody that has knows Bergevin is responsible for the crap show we've been watching over the past few years. Now the team is more entertaining to watch and he's ''turned around an entire organization''...like he wasn't the cause of all the crap to begin with.

Bergevin deserves credit for some of the good things we're seeing. No doubt.
He's also been a f***ing disaster before this summer. Sweeping this under the rug because Habs are a bubble team after 30 games is laughable.
 

Theodore450

Registered User
Sep 10, 2013
4,520
2,252
He also had Gallagher, Galch, Cole, Subban, Price, Markov and Patches, but hey, why mention those guys?
He also had two buyout contracts that completely facilitated getting rid of his two worst contracts. But again...why mention that, it's not like we want objectivity here right?

He definitely did make the right choice with Galch, and then used him on the wings for 4 years, but ya, it's all on him. It has nothing to do with management. It's not like they extended a mediocre small center and used him as the go-to offensive sheltered center. That definitely did-not-happen.

Objectivity..pfft...so overrated.


Vanek trade was great.


I don't give two craps about the Subban trade. It was dumb but it's over and done with.

The Habs are a PO bubble team, if they miss the POs this year, it'll be 3 out of 4 years we don't make them. But yes, he's turned around this organization.

I said you haven't followed this team because anybody that has knows Bergevin is responsible for the crap show we've been watching over the past few years. Now the team is more entertaining to watch and he's ''turned around an entire organization''...like he wasn't the cause of all the crap to begin with.

Bergevin deserves credit for some of the good things we're seeing. No doubt.
He's also been a ****ing disaster before this summer. Sweeping this under the rug because Habs are a bubble team after 30 games is laughable.
All I was trying to compare is what he will leave his predecessor and what he was infact left with. I only explained those first few moves to give you an idea of what happen to the assets he also got, that being a 1st and 2 2nds.

I don’t wanna get into if he’s a good gm or not.
I wanted a year 1 rebuild
No therien no sly

I wanna strictly look at what will be left behind from this point. And what he inherited.
It’s clearly night and day
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
All I was trying to compare is what he will leave his predecessor and what he was infact left with. I only explained those first few moves to give you an idea of what happen to the assets he also got, that being a 1st and 2 2nds.

I don’t wanna get into if he’s a good gm or not.
I wanted a year 1 rebuild
No therien no sly

I wanna strictly look at what will be left behind from this point. And what he inherited.
It’s clearly night and day

What he inherited was more than fine. Of course, revisionist history will skew that, but people were recently discussing that in other threads as well.
Go back to old threads, you will see people talk of Tinordi as an untouchable. Kristo was still believed to become a good pick up. Beaulieu had moved down and it was a complete blessing for him to be available to us. Leblanc was coming off a 22pt 31gp rookie year in the AHL and looked decent on our bottom lines, there was no reason to believe he was going to be hot garbage when Bergevin took over.
It's very little different than our current situation. Mete and Juulsen could very well be the new Tinordi and Beaulieu. Poe can be Leblanc. The addition is Suzuki, he's the one that really makes us more interesting, but then he was added because of Patches, who Bergey inherited.

And that's just on the prospect side. You conveniently leave out the fact he inherited a goalie who would go on to win every individual trophy possible..one of the best and most consistent scoring LW in the NHL..a Norris winner...another #1D..two very good young prospects in Galch+Galla...on top of another 13th guy named Eller, who we just pushed down the pipe for inexplicable reasons, and a solid two way center in Plek. Not to mention, we had another guy who had just scored 30G+. But ya, as I said, no need to mention this I guess.

So no, you're not being very objective here. You just tried to paint a very bad and bleek picture of what Bergevin inherited, not mentioned his many wrongdoings, and now applaud him because...well..Habs are a bubble team and have a couple nice prospects (which you would expect to be the case after finishing in the bottom 10 two out of three years...but hey..again..why mention that) .
 
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WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
Where in my entire post did I say he didn’t have faults? I lay out how he’s better than his predecessor and you fully use the “he makes no mistakes and has no faults” card ?
Your wack
lol

You excused every one of his mistakes, even down to the garbage coaches he's hired and extended and then hide behind a "he has his faults though". Whack.
 
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