Player Discussion Shea Weber Part II

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Kriss E

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Took a couple days but I'm glad we cleared that up, your first post stated the complete opposite. It either ridiculously unbiased against Weber or straight trolling.
I never said he was selfish, I said he wanted out of Nashville and he forced their hand by putting them in corner.

1- He signed with a different team --- Check on wanting out.
2- There was no room for Nashville to negotiate --- Check on forcing their hand.

You've been obtuse about this discussion since the beginning.
Flyers’ Shea Weber offer sheet fallout, five years later
'' Weber signed an offer sheet that was specifically designed to torpedo any match from the Predators.
If the Predators matched, they would have been on the hook for $27 million for Weber, with $26 million of it guaranteed through a lockout.''

“To put that in perspective, 16.5 percent of Nashville’s entire franchise net worth ($163M as valuated by Forbes Magazine in 2011) would be paid out in less than a calendar year by the small-market team.”
''The notion that the Predators would match this was, at the time, a long-shot''

I didn't think I had to quote an article, I mean, I expected logic and common sense to prevail here.
That's about the only thing I was wrong about.

Ya, Weber says he knew Preds would match, and that's why he sent out fillers to see what team would be interested in getting him, and worked on a deal that would be incredibly difficult for Nashville to match. Why???..For the fun of it probably?
Again, you've been fishing since the beginning.
 

Kriss E

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He surely can help in d-zone, as for the speed he his as brillant as Markov was, so i think that this is not a problem
Not with the puck he isn't. Markov was a great puck mover, Weber isn't the best in that.
Still, he should be fine if he recovered well and his bullet will still be present on the PP.
 
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Bacchus1

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Any updates? Has he been seen on the ica again. Can’t wait to have a reasonable expectation for his return.
 

Sterling Archer

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Habs need Weber back on special teams but particularly to lock down a lead. We’ve given up too many of them and he can be a black hole in D when he’s in his game.
 

26Mats

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We saw him play half a season on a bumb foot. Just because he's skating doesn't mean anything.

The only news I want to hear is that he's 100% healthy and ready to go.

So far it looks like, for the first time since he's been here, we have a pretty good all around team.

I just hope the offense can keep this up. I'm not worried about the defense, especially if Weber makes a full recovery and is back to his old self at some point this year.
 
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jaffy27

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I never said he was selfish, I said he wanted out of Nashville and he forced their hand by putting them in corner.

1- He signed with a different team --- Check on wanting out.
2- There was no room for Nashville to negotiate --- Check on forcing their hand.

You've been obtuse about this discussion since the beginning.
Flyers’ Shea Weber offer sheet fallout, five years later
'' Weber signed an offer sheet that was specifically designed to torpedo any match from the Predators.
If the Predators matched, they would have been on the hook for $27 million for Weber, with $26 million of it guaranteed through a lockout.''
“To put that in perspective, 16.5 percent of Nashville’s entire franchise net worth ($163M as valuated by Forbes Magazine in 2011) would be paid out in less than a calendar year by the small-market team.”

''The notion that the Predators would match this was, at the time, a long-shot''

I didn't think I had to quote an article, I mean, I expected logic and common sense to prevail here.
That's about the only thing I was wrong about.

Ya, Weber says he knew Preds would match, and that's why he sent out fillers to see what team would be interested in getting him, and worked on a deal that would be incredibly difficult for Nashville to match. Why???..For the fun of it probably?
Again, you've been fishing since the beginning.
Pretty sure it’s Philadelphia that put Nashville in the corner.....did Weber want out???....sure, not the first player to want that especially from a struggling team at the time in a non traditional hockey market.

Philadelphia structured a deal for Weber that would pay him tons of money, especially up front. Anybody who says no to that deal is INSANE
 
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Frank Drebin

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Pretty sure it’s Philadelphia that put Nashville in the corner.....did Weber want out???....sure, not the first player to want that especially from a struggling team at the time in a non traditional hockey market.

Philadelphia structured a deal for Weber that would pay him tons of money, especially up front. Anybody who says no to that deal is INSANE
Why wouldn't Weber want to leave Nashville after the way his crappy GM treated him? He never made any kind of commitment to signing him long term, took him to arbitration, let his partner walk via UFA, made signing his goalie to a huge contract a priority, and never brought in any offensive help (Weber was Nashvilles leading scorer the year after he signed the offersheet, with 28 points in 48 games)

Weber would have had to been an idiot to not sign that offersheet and wait for Poile to lowball his MVP, again.

That offersheet was 100% Poiles fault, and if something like that happened in Montreal we'd all be saying the same thing.
 

Kriss E

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Pretty sure it’s Philadelphia that put Nashville in the corner.....did Weber want out???....sure, not the first player to want that especially from a struggling team at the time in a non traditional hockey market.

Philadelphia structured a deal for Weber that would pay him tons of money, especially up front. Anybody who says no to that deal is INSANE
Weber did not have to agree to this deal, and according to some reports, Weber is the one that sent fillers out to teams to see who would be willing to trade for him. When that failed, option B became signing an offer sheet.
So ya, of course, Philly is not going to sign Weber at a 5y/4M deal that Nsh will obviously match. Why in the hell would they ever do that. They will structure a deal that they believe NSH won't match and that's exactly what they did. Weber didn't have to agree to it though. He did because he wanted out.
Doesn't make him a villain. Totally within his rights. Many players want out, nothing wrong with that. Not sure why some people have a hard time admitting this...
 

Kriss E

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Why wouldn't Weber want to leave Nashville after the way his crappy GM treated him? He never made any kind of commitment to signing him long term, took him to arbitration, let his partner walk via UFA, made signing his goalie to a huge contract a priority, and never brought in any offensive help (Weber was Nashvilles leading scorer the year after he signed the offersheet, with 28 points in 48 games)

Weber would have had to been an idiot to not sign that offersheet and wait for Poile to lowball his MVP, again.

That offersheet was 100% Poiles fault, and if something like that happened in Montreal we'd all be saying the same thing.

Suter had agreed with Poile during the season that he would re-sign with NSH. He screwed Poile over at the end of the year.
GM David Poile was mega-pissed. Suter told the team he was re-signing back in November 2011. Nashville made a competitive offer to retain him. Suter said it wasn’t about the money, but rather about family, as his wife was a Minnesota native. “The disappointing part is that’s not what we talked about all year long. I think we met Ryan’s desires on every front so today is very, very disappointing,” said Poile.
Flyers’ Shea Weber offer sheet fallout, five years later

None of this was Poile's fault. Nashville was a cap floor team since its inception. Suter was an UFA, Poile was trying to re-signing him all year. Weber was a RFA and at the time, he said he didn't want to commit to NSH if Suter wasn't there.
There was very little Poile could do. Not sure how this falls on him.

And no, if circumstances were exactly the same, people would not be saying it's 100% on the GM.
Now, if the GM just decides to play this random game of chicken when we have the space and the player wants to re-sign, then ya, we would be saying WTF.
 

Frank Drebin

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Suter had agreed with Poile during the season that he would re-sign with NSH. He screwed Poile over at the end of the year.
GM David Poile was mega-pissed. Suter told the team he was re-signing back in November 2011. Nashville made a competitive offer to retain him. Suter said it wasn’t about the money, but rather about family, as his wife was a Minnesota native. “The disappointing part is that’s not what we talked about all year long. I think we met Ryan’s desires on every front so today is very, very disappointing,” said Poile.
Flyers’ Shea Weber offer sheet fallout, five years later

None of this was Poile's fault. Nashville was a cap floor team since its inception. Suter was an UFA, Poile was trying to re-signing him all year. Weber was a RFA and at the time, he said he didn't want to commit to NSH if Suter wasn't there.
There was very little Poile could do. Not sure how this falls on him.

And no, if circumstances were exactly the same, people would not be saying it's 100% on the GM.
Now, if the GM just decides to play this random game of chicken when we have the space and the player wants to re-sign, then ya, we would be saying WTF.
What were the circumstances surrounding Weber being awarded a one year deal through arbitration the summer prior to the o/s?

Clearly Nashville had money to sign key players to long term deals as they signed rinne to his 7x7 deal in November of 2011. Why wasn't that money put towards signing Weber long term?
 

ECWHSWI

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Pretty sure it’s Philadelphia that put Nashville in the corner.....did Weber want out???....sure, not the first player to want that especially from a struggling team at the time in a non traditional hockey market.

Philadelphia structured a deal for Weber that would pay him tons of money, especially up front. Anybody who says no to that deal is INSANE
sure, all on Philadelphia, Weber has zero responsibility...

makes sense, Weber is an idiot who will sign any piece of paper in front of him or something... right ?
 
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Kriss E

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What were the circumstances surrounding Weber being awarded a one year deal through arbitration the summer prior to the o/s?

Clearly Nashville had money to sign key players to long term deals as they signed rinne to his 7x7 deal in November of 2011. Why wasn't that money put towards signing Weber long term?

Rinne was set to become an UFA, Weber was a RFA.
Every single team tries to take advantage of RFA years to get players at a cheaper price. We did it with Subban forcing him to take a bridge deal. Then we went to arbitration with him as well.
This isn't new or uncommon.
 
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Frank Drebin

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sure, all on Philadelphia, Weber has zero responsibility...

makes sense, Weber is an idiot who will sign any piece of paper in front of him or something... right ?
Anyone who assigns blame to a player for signing a contract worth 9 figures is being hilariously obtuse to try to prove a point.

What kind of idiot wouldn't sign a 110m (110 million dollar!) contract, especially when his fumbling gm is busy losing top pairing dmen and taking you to arbitration?

If someone offered you 110m to be a leafs fan, you'd be wearing a Kadri jersey tomorrow.
 

Frank Drebin

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Rinne was set to become an UFA, Weber was a RFA.
Every single team tries to take advantage of RFA years to get players at a cheaper price. We did it with Subban forcing him to take a bridge deal. Then we went to arbitration with him as well.
This isn't new or uncommon.
Huge gamble with elite players like Subban and Weber, we've learned.

Never went to arb with Subban either. The 8/72 deal was signed with urgency to avoid arbitration and the pending ufa status it would create.

Iirc
 

Kriss E

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Huge gamble with elite players like Subban and Weber, we've learned.

Never went to arb with Subban either. The 8/72 deal was signed with urgency to avoid arbitration and the pending ufa status it would create.

Iirc
Wrong. It did go to arbitration, but an agreement was reached amicably after. Many suspect Molson had to step in to tell Bergevin to sign him.
P.K. Subban arbitration hearing ends ominously

They each presented their case in front of arbitrator. So ya, it did go to arbitration.

That's irrelevant anyways. You asked why Rinner was signed and not Weber. One was UFA, the other was RFA. Again, it's normal for teams to want to get their RFAs signed to cheaper deals. In no way is the offer sheet deal from Weber on Poile.
I don't think you knew or remembered the situation all that well.
Poile got screwed by Suter. Then Weber never wanted to commit without Suter.
Poile always wanted Rinne-Suter-Weber to stick around, he was working for a way they can afford them all. Suter-Weber refused to go along with his plan. One left, the other tried to leave but Leopold stepped up and allowed Poile to keep Weber.
 
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ECWHSWI

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Anyone who assigns blame to a player for signing a contract worth 9 figures is being hilariously obtuse to try to prove a point.

What kind of idiot wouldn't sign a 110m (110 million dollar!) contract, especially when his fumbling gm is busy losing top pairing dmen and taking you to arbitration?

If someone offered you 110m to be a leafs fan, you'd be wearing a Kadri jersey tomorrow.

try that for such an open minded poster :
So, you too think Weber is a Pejorative Slur who just signed the piece of paper in front of him ? he has zero responsibility ? he did not negociate anything ? it's Philly that suggested the bonuses although the only one benefitting from it is Weber ?

is that what you're saying right now ?

you agree with jaffer that Weber is just plain dumb and sinply sign what he's being told to sign or something ?
 
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Frank Drebin

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That's irrelevant anyways. You asked why Rinner was signed and not Weber. One was UFA, the other was RFA. Again, it's normal for teams to want to get their RFAs signed to cheaper deals. In no way is the offer sheet deal from Weber on Poile.
Stars should never be exposed to offersheets. Poile should have made signing him a priority.

He convinced his owner to match the o/s, so obviously the money was available, he just got caught with his pants down.

And yes i stand corrected on the arbitration, although no decision was given.
 

Frank Drebin

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try that for such an open minded poster :
So, you too think Weber is a ****** who just signed the piece of paper in front of him ? he has zero responsibility ? he did not negociate anything ? it's Philly that suggested the bonuses although the only one benefitting from it is Weber ?

is that what you're saying right now ?

you agree with jaffer that Weber is just plain dumb and sinply sign what he's being told to sign or something ?
Responsibility for what? Putting Nashville in a huge financial mess?

No, poile deserves responsibility for that, because he is the one who matched the offersheet.

And if losing his franchise d for nothing was crippling for the franchise too, well i guess he should have convinced his owner to pony up the dough before they had to match, or before Philly had a chance to offer the contract.

And no, i don't think Weber himself negotiated the intricacies of the contract like bonuses. Obviously that was done by Philadelphia's side.
 
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ECWHSWI

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Responsibility for what? Putting Nashville in a huge financial mess?

No, poile deserves responsibility for that, because he is the one who matched the offersheet.

And if losing his franchise d for nothing was crippling for the franchise too, well i guess he should have convinced his owner to pony up the dough before they had to match.
offersheet... you mean the offersheet dumb Weber signed ? or maybe Poile matched the offersheet before Weber signed it ? or maybe it's Nashville and Philly that negociated bonuses benefitting Weber only ?

obtuse you were saying right ?
(you're working f***ing hard to absolve Weber of all responsibility - offly enough, you're not putting any effort to absolve PK for the arbitration/bridge/etc)
 
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