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Player Discussion Shea Weber

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Mrb1p

Mrb1p

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Captain Subban said:
To say it's small is to say they bring the exact same game with a little modification. They don't. They play very different styles and bring different elements to the team. The only place where they have some similarity is their powerplay shot which Weber has a better slapper and Subban is a superior passer.

It's an entirely different game played from the blueline out depending on if Weber or Subban is on the ice. To say it's a small difference is like saying there's a small difference on if Jeff Petry or Aaron Ekblad is out there because they had a three point difference this season.
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It's a small difference. Swap any of the elite D's around, save for Karlsson and Burns because their offense driving is crazy high compared to the field and there's literally nothing that changes. It does change the make up of a team, this I can agree, teams will use different breakouts/pairings/assigments/etc but the overall quality of play is the same. This has been proved over and over, Pens thrived with Letang as their 1D, with Schultz, with Gonchar, Bruins thrived with Chara, and now they thrive with Krug... Vegas too, why are they so good if they use Engelland so much ?

Fact is, top end talent matters, but it matters a lot less than people think.

That's not to say the Habs didn't lose the trade, everyone and their mother knows what happened and they didn't get fair value, but acting like Subban is a demi-god compared to Weber is foolish, and there's also little indication that Weber "fell off substantially" since 2012.
 
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Mrb1p

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Dongstoppable said:
Literally who cares about toughness. It's 2018. The Kings, for all their toughness, just got swept by a team made up of every underutilized skill player from around the league. The lesson is clear: if a player doesn't do anything but hit and fight, they're stealing a spot from a talented skill player. Tough players are useless players, unless they bring goals or can skate with the puck. Alzner, Benn, Schlemko, etc, these guys should struggle to find contracts, not be actively acquired. The defense doesn't need them, or players like them.
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None of the guys you just named are tough though.
 
Mrb1p

Mrb1p

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le_sean said:
I was surprised to see Shea had 16 points in 26 games playing on one foot. Hope he comes back strong, he’s still a top defender. People just like to use hyperbole to **** on him because they are salty over the trade.
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Is this super satirical or are you actually saying this ?
 
The Gr8 Dane

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le_sean said:
I was surprised to see Shea had 16 points in 26 games playing on one foot. Hope he comes back strong, he’s still a top defender. People just like to use hyperbole to **** on him because they are salty over the trade.
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Nah i legit don't enjoy having him on the team. Such a boring player, off the boards and out , Zzzzzz can't make a clean pass out of his zone.
 
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Laurentide

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le_sean said:
I was surprised to see Shea had 16 points in 26 games playing on one foot. Hope he comes back strong, he’s still a top defender. People just like to use hyperbole to **** on him because they are salty over the trade.
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Didn't surprise me at all. Weber is an elite level defenseman. Even with the age difference not being in his favor most teams interested in winning would still choose him over Subban every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Fans who like to be entertained and who are impressed with shiny objects, however, prefer Subban.
 
Mrb1p

Mrb1p

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Laurentide said:
Didn't surprise me at all. Weber is an elite level defenseman. Even with the age difference not being in his favor most teams interested in winning would still choose him over Subban every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Fans who like to be entertained and who are impressed with shiny objects, however, prefer Subban.
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... No. Teams may prefer one style over the other, but the age difference is too big to not go with Subban.
 

Schwang

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Mrb1p said:
It's a small difference. Swap any of the elite D's around, save for Karlsson and Burns because their offense driving is crazy high compared to the field and there's literally nothing that changes. It does change the make up of a team, this I can agree, teams will use different breakouts/pairings/assigments/etc but the overall quality of play is the same. This has been proved over and over, Pens thrived with Letang as their 1D, with Schultz, with Gonchar, Bruins thrived with Chara, and now they thrive with Krug... Vegas too, why are they so good if they use Engelland so much ?

Fact is, top end talent matters, but it matters a lot less than people think.

That's not to say the Habs didn't lose the trade, everyone and their mother knows what happened and they didn't get fair value, but acting like Subban is a demi-god compared to Weber is foolish, and there's also little indication that Weber "fell off substantially" since 2012.
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I agree. After the trade, I said Subban will always get his points and hilights, but he will always be Subban. He’ll take risks and do dumb thing sometimes. Subban isn’t a god but we do lose the deal over the long term though.
 
Price is Wright

Price is Wright

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Mrb1p said:
That's not to say the Habs didn't lose the trade, everyone and their mother knows what happened and they didn't get fair value, but acting like Subban is a demi-god compared to Weber is foolish, and there's also little indication that Weber "fell off substantially" since 2012.
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That wasn't my point though. My point is they play a very different game. Subban fit Laviolette much better than Weber. Weber might fit Julien but he doesn't fit the current team makeup. He would look great back with Trotz in Washington or with Babcock in Toronto though, but he would be ill suited for Pittsburgh or Vegas.
 
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Mrb1p

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Captain Subban said:
That wasn't my point though. My point is they play a very different game. Subban fit Laviolette much better than Subban. Weber might fit Julien but he doesn't fit the current team makeup. He would look great back with Trotz in Washington or with Babcock in Toronto though, but he would be ill suited for Pittsburgh or Vegas.
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He's not suited for this team ? This team is not suited for itself.

You can't just imagine things like that, what tells you he wouldn't be good in Pittsburgh or Vegas ? Especially when Vegas is using an twenty times worse version of Weber in Engelland as their top D.
 

LyricalLyricist

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Dongstoppable said:
Literally who cares about toughness. It's 2018. The Kings, for all their toughness, just got swept by a team made up of every underutilized skill player from around the league. The lesson is clear: if a player doesn't do anything but hit and fight, they're stealing a spot from a talented skill player. Tough players are useless players, unless they bring goals or can skate with the puck. Alzner, Benn, Schlemko, etc, these guys should struggle to find contracts, not be actively acquired. The defense doesn't need them, or players like them.
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Since when does me saying back end needs toughness mean I exclude skill?

I mean, i'll give you an example of a tough and skilled player: Ryan Getzlaf. Would a skilled player with that kind of physical presence not be welcome? I never said I'd want Paul Gaustad.

It's same on D. Some players can move the puck and keep players honest with big hits as well. They can clear the crease, etc...

Weber is that type for sure, as is Subban. I thought hamrlik back in the day was tougher than his reputation suggested. He would grind people out, had skill, size, ability. Nothing wrong with wanting a guy like that.

Also Schlemko is nothing to do with Alzner or Benn. They aren't same type of player at all. Schlemko is just a bottom pairing D, that's all.
 
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FlatIron

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Laurentide said:
Didn't surprise me at all. Weber is an elite level defenseman. Even with the age difference not being in his favor most teams interested in winning would still choose him over Subban every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Fans who like to be entertained and who are impressed with shiny objects, however, prefer Subban.
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Age being equal I'd take Weber over Subban from 2007-2013. From then to present I'd choose Subban. The game has changed.
 
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Tighthead

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The Gr8 Dane said:
Hope? What's that
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Hope is The Plan.

Hope Drouin is a C.

Hope Benn can partner with Weber.

Hope Alzner becomes Chara.

Hope Price recovers to peak season form.

Hope for draft lottery success.

Hope Mike Reilly is like universally acknowledged “stud D-man” Morgan Reilly.

Hope for a 3Shaw.

Hope JDLR develops offensive game.
 
OldCraig71

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FlatIron said:
Age being equal I'd take Weber over Subban from 2007-2013. From then to present I'd choose Subban. The game has changed.
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That's why Poile made the trade and Bergevin took the bait because he basically is building a team reminiscent to the dead puck era, his player assessments do not go past 2010.
 
OldCraig71

OldCraig71

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Tighthead said:
Hope is The Plan.

Hope Drouin is a C.

Hope Benn can partner with Weber.

Hope Alzner becomes Chara.

Hope Price recovers to peak season form.

Hope for draft lottery success.

Hope Mike Reilly is like universally acknowledged “stud D-man” Morgan Reilly.

Hope for a 3Shaw.

Hope JDLR develops offensive game.
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You forgot the "we hope to sign Tavares".
 
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