OT: Shaw v telus v other

[Bubbles]

Yeah I'm using Novus for the basic TV package, great price if you just want to see the Canuck games and a few standard TV shows. I suppose I should look at it for internet too but living with the missus the internet bill is her domain and she has some loyalty to Telus after working there for a number of years. Usually don't have any problems with it, works well enough and outages are few and far between.

Their HD package is a little limited, but its good enough for me. But the internet is blazing fast and I have the cheapest option. I think it's because not many people are on it so I get to use all the bandwidth.

Convince your missus to bundle! Might save you some bucks!

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Can anyone on Novus run a speed test @ speedtest.net and give an indication of the upload speeds?:

www.speedtest.net

 

[ruiner]

2. Again, addressing Telus' internet speed, when you sign up for their service they DO NOT guarantee their speeds. What do I mean? http://www.telus.com/content/internet/

Notice 'Upto to 25mbps' where as other providers don't state the word 'upto' since it is a dedicated bandwidth service which it should be with all service providers. Obviously if you don't download a lot you don't have much to worry about.

Oh and let us not forget about this....http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r27784992-BC-TELUS-High-Speed-Turbo-25-Usage-being-reduced-50- (Telus slashes customers bandwidth in HALF without letting existing customers know unless they were signed up through E-Billing.)

First, Shaw says the exact same thing with up to xx Mbps on their internet page. They also have a tendency to oversubscribe their nodes which causes slowdowns in the evening.

Telus did just cut their unenforced caps, to the exact same level as Shaw's unenforced caps.

Pay attention on the page where you select which services you want. There is a new speed they offer but its not available everywhere yet.

They have also recently peered up at the Seattle IX which solves all of the routing problems mentioned. Their routing is now superior to Shaw's in most cases.

That said, I find the picture quality on Optik to be awful. Blurry, lots of macroblocking and posterization. The stuff you can find online that's been reencoded from OTA or US cable looks far better.

Also take this into account: http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2012/...e-rise-for-two-of-canadas-top-three-telecoms/.

That report includes wireless complaints which Shaw doesn't deal with. Wireless complaints are far more common than internet or TV and yet Shaw's complaint level still managed to climb by 335%.

 

[Anzes Eyes]

Can anyone on Novus run a speed test @ speedtest.net and give an indication of the upload speeds?:

www.speedtest.net

Last time I tested it was 8Mbps. I'm away this week so I can't check now. I signed up for the cheapest offer.

I LOVE NOVUS. Great support. Talk to a person right away, they help you set everything up and even drop off coaxial cables for free. No contract either.

 

[tradervik]

Was using Shaw for cable and Telus for internet/phone. Switched to Telus bundle because they offered me a deal with no contract. Have had no problems with the service. Remote control and on-screen menus are miles ahead of Shaw. Telus system is fantastic for a habitual channel flipper. I can't imagine going back to Shaw.

 

[Skead]

Shaw Pros:
-Higher Bandwidth (Coaxial RG5/6/7/59/etc are superior vs Twisted Pair)
-TV Signal is more robust in which Telus is a 100% Digital signal where a wrong "1" or "0" in the feed = pixelating, where Shaw signal has a strength (SNR) and the boxes have built in correction even when the SNR is low.
- No TV Delay, look it up Telus owners were experiencing SCF games 10 seconds behind Shaw users, hearing celebrations for goals 10 seconds behind would suck imo.
-No shared bandwidth between devices (Gateways support up to 6 recordings and 3 viewings which have absolutely no impact on Phone or Internet.
-Better Customer Service, not perfect but they'll never charge for a service call.
-Local call support (There was only 1 call center off shore for Sales exclusively for Punjabi callers since they couldn't hire enough in Canada, but they quickly stopped that and is back to 100% canadian call centers)

Telus Pros:
-Way Better promotions.
-Cheaper

 

[ruiner]

-TV Signal is more robust in which Telus is a 100% Digital signal where a wrong "1" or "0" in the feed = pixelating, where Shaw signal has a strength (SNR) and the boxes have built in correction even when the SNR is low.
-Better Customer Service, not perfect but they'll never charge for a service call.
-Local call support (There was only 1 call center off shore for Sales exclusively for Punjabi callers since they couldn't hire enough in Canada, but they quickly stopped that and is back to 100% canadian call centers)

I'm sorry, what? Shaw uses a digital signal also. In fact they are both digital over an analog medium for part of the distance, either coax or twisted pair. The only way it is 100% digital with either is if you have fibre run straight to your residence.

Telus has also brought their call centres back here. Only their chat support is overseas.

Again, I will direct you to this: http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Wireless+leads+complaints+list/7450711/story.html.

Two of Canada's big three telecoms, Bell Canada and Rogers, saw a year-to-year increase in total complaints while the third, Vancouver-based Telus, saw complaints drop almost 13 per cent compared with a year earlier.

...

Among cable service providers, Calgary-based Shaw saw complaints leap 355 per cent.

 

[DL44]

I was under the impression that Telus was more expensive...

I will have to take another look now.


At work:

 

[Skead]

I'm sorry, what? Shaw uses a digital signal also. In fact they are both digital over an analog medium for part of the distance, either coax or twisted pair. The only way it is 100% digital with either is if you have fibre run straight to your residence.

Telus has also brought their call centres back here. Only their chat support is overseas.

Again, I will direct you to this: http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Wireless+leads+complaints+list/7450711/story.html.

Shaw uses Analog (only for Basic Channels) and digital signals yes, but Telus and Shaw digital signals are delivered differnetly. Shaw delivers digital on different QAMs / Frequencies, for example channels 4, 22, and 30 could all be on QAM 20 or Frequency 356Mhz.
All Shaws channels digitally assigned to QAMs/Frequencies thus your box is actually receiving every channel simultaneously and your box just deciphers it to display.

Telus OptikTV will only use Coax cable if the house is pre-wired for it, saves the tech time, by if they have to rewire they will use CAT5. They have a fiber headend, and from there they send a long twisted pair line to the house and into the modem. To save bandwidth all channels aren't being fed to your modem, your box/modem tells what channel you are "downloading", hence the delay in feeds sometimes.

Your link states the majority of complaints are disputes on Billing/Contract, which I will be the first to admit Shaw has a crummy billing system. However when you look at the states for how the customer service is, it's a different picture than what you linked.

That's good for Telus to bring some employment back to Canada but Shaw is 100% Canadian Employed, including our provisioning, chat support, sales line, etc.


I'm glad you're passionate about Telus because there has to be competition, hope this clears up my statements.

 

[gongshowmonkey]

Can anyone on Novus run a speed test @ speedtest.net and give an indication of the upload speeds?:

www.speedtest.net

this is basic Novus internet

 

[ruiner]

That's good for Telus to bring some employment back to Canada but Shaw is 100% Canadian Employed, including our provisioning, chat support, sales line, etc.


I'm glad you're passionate about Telus because there has to be competition, hope this clears up my statements.

I'm not passionate about Telus, I hate both companies with a passion. There is just so much misinformation flying around this thread including that from you.

I don't think you really understand how either of the broadcast systems really work. If the line is too noisy you can get errors with either.

If you have errors with IPTV it means you have packet loss on your internet connection. Otherwise PhyR (physical layer retransmission) takes care of any bit errors.

 

[TheDiver*]

I work for Shaw.

Here's the basics.

Advantages are:

Shaw doesn't contract out so when you need a tech on the line, it'll be someone from Vancouver, Nanaimo, Kelowna or Calgary. Not the Philippines or India like Telus. Telus HAS NOT brought their call centres back here. My parents are Telus customers and I called recently on heir behalf and it was someone from the Philippines.

Shaw has no contracts so if you are unhappy, you can cancel with 30 days notice.

Shaw does not charge for service calls. So if something goes wrong with your service, they come free of charge to fix it (unless you need a new outlet, then they charge you a fee). Telus service is $100 per visit so you'd better hope it doesn't screw up.
Shaw also gives you free ethernet cables, high quality splitters (so you get way faster and clearer coverage than with a dollar store splitter) and HDMI cables you can pick up from a Shaw retail store.

Both companies have good equipment, but if you go with Shaw do NOT get the Pace PVR, make sure its one of the Motorolas. Waaaay better, less screwups.



Diasadvantages:
Telus gives you free stuff up front if you switch in order to lock you in to the contract.


If you call Shaw and tell them you are thinking of cancelling and switching to Telus, you will get some good offers, guaranteed!

 

[Uhmkay]

Here is a copy of my speedtest with Telus...

This is also while the TV was on and had two clients of Guild Wars 2 running on different computers at the same time.



This is with their 'up to 25/Mbps' package. I should go complain about the .39 I'm losing...

 

[nameless1]

Is this fast or slow?
Can any experts tell me.
It is with Shaw.

What is considered fast?

 

[Dado]

Is this fast or slow?
Can any experts tell me.
It is with Shaw.

What is considered fast?

It depends on what level of service you are paying for. In general terms, though, yes, that's pretty good.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

I'm not passionate about Telus, I hate both companies with a passion. There is just so much misinformation flying around this thread including that from you.

I don't think you really understand how either of the broadcast systems really work. If the line is too noisy you can get errors with either.

If you have errors with IPTV it means you have packet loss on your internet connection. Otherwise PhyR (physical layer retransmission) takes care of any bit errors.

Looks like you were passionate enough to sign up to HFBoards.

 

[Skead]

I'm not passionate about Telus, I hate both companies with a passion. There is just so much misinformation flying around this thread including that from you.

I don't think you really understand how either of the broadcast systems really work. If the line is too noisy you can get errors with either.

If you have errors with IPTV it means you have packet loss on your internet connection. Otherwise PhyR (physical layer retransmission) takes care of any bit errors.

I do understand how the signal delivery system works on the Shaw end of things because I was trained and have field experience for it.
As for the Telus side of information, I am relaying what my roommate is saying as a Ledcor Telus Installer.

My statement is that Shaw's signal has some pretty big advantages due to the Signal Delivery and Cabling.
- RG6/11 Drop Cable (The wire that goes to your house from the Tap) has a much higher bandwidth and shielding than Shielded Twisted Pair.
- Let's say there is an exposure on the line, very likely because of 104.5 Radio Station in Vancouver people will lose certain channels using the 105MHz frequency, but only those channels are affected.
If Telus has water on the line, or errors, then all channels are affected because it's all 1's and 0's on a twisted pair.
- A complete signal is being sent from Shaw to your box and it just deciphers which one you tell it to, thus very minimal delay in the broadcast.

If you think I have anything wrong, let me know because I'm always open to learning more.

 

[ruiner]

Ledcor installers are basically trained monkeys. Anyone can run cable and replace bad connections. I had one tell me that I wasn't supposed to be going into the Actiontec's interface for DHCP reservations and port forwarding.

There is some headroom in your train rate for IPTV streams. If you're on the 50 Mbps plan your modem syncs at 76 Mbps, the lower plans sync at 33 Mbps assuming the line is good enough. As long as your train rate stays above 6 your TV isn't going out from a line problem.

Line errors are detected and corrected. If there are too many then the train rate will drop. Meaning you lose some speed not TV channels.

The modems use PhyR which does its own error correction on everything, including IPTV. When was the last time you browsed to a web page and the text was all garbled?
http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/wp/XDSL-WP101-R.pdf

That said, I already mentioned I think Optik's picture quality is terrible. I haven't had much recent experience with Shaw on a big enough TV to compare but I can't imagine its any worse.

Shaw's internet is also very jittery when you download. But that's not a problem unless you're doing more than just browsing.

 

[nameless1]

It depends on what level of service you are paying for. In general terms, though, yes, that's pretty good.

I think I got basic high speed.
Thanks for the reply.

 

[Skead]

Ledcor installers are basically trained monkeys. Anyone can run cable and replace bad connections. I had one tell me that I wasn't supposed to be going into the Actiontec's interface for DHCP reservations and port forwarding.

There is some headroom in your train rate for IPTV streams. If you're on the 50 Mbps plan your modem syncs at 76 Mbps, the lower plans sync at 33 Mbps assuming the line is good enough. As long as your train rate stays above 6 your TV isn't going out from a line problem.

Line errors are detected and corrected. If there are too many then the train rate will drop. Meaning you lose some speed not TV channels.

The modems use PhyR which does its own error correction on everything, including IPTV. When was the last time you browsed to a web page and the text was all garbled?
http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/wp/XDSL-WP101-R.pdf

That said, I already mentioned I think Optik's picture quality is terrible. I haven't had much recent experience with Shaw on a big enough TV to compare but I can't imagine its any worse.

Shaw's internet is also very jittery when you download. But that's not a problem unless you're doing more than just browsing.

Never said you lose TV channels, I said you get pixelating/poor picture. Which is true, if you have water in the line, no matter how good your modem can error correct if it gets a bad enough error it can't magically know what to put in place of the loss.

I don't know what you mean when you say Shaw Internet is "jittery" but I've have consistent speeds/streams fluctuating maybe a few MBPS.

And maybe you're right the majority of Ledcor installers are grunts but all I know is he has courses and seems able to back up his statements.

 

[ruiner]

I guess you don't understand what retransmission means? If its at the point where the TV and internet wouldn't work, then your coax wouldn't be working either.

Don't forget that QAM doesn't have error correction or retransmission, so if your Shaw coax has a line error you're going to see it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAM_(television)

Although QAM uses the same 6 MHz bandwidth as ATSC, it carries about twice the data (38.47 Mbit/s @256QAM per 6 MHz channel) due to the lack of error correction; however, this requires a significantly cleaner signal path, such as distribution through hybrid fiber-coax digital cable.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Let this be my chance to plug TELUS. Definitely go with them.

 

[Skead]

I guess you don't understand what retransmission means? If its at the point where the TV and internet wouldn't work, then your coax wouldn't be working either.

Don't forget that QAM doesn't have error correction or retransmission, so if your Shaw coax has a line error you're going to see it.

http://www.jdsu.com/ProductLiterature/Digital_QAM_Signals_Overview_and_Basics_of_Testing.pdf

The equipment used allows for correction of BER.

Yes, I know about Retransmission which is fine unless there is a consistent error with the line (water in the drop/taps) it'll just continue to error, get most of the channel correct and have poor picture.

All I'm saying is if there is water on a specific portion of the drop core wire, then only certain channels will be affected.

 

[ruiner]

You obviously have no idea how VDSL2 works.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very-high-bit-rate_digital_subscriber_line_2#Profiles

The 17a profile I am on uses 4096 carriers. The other Optik packages use the 8b profile with 2048 carriers. If there are too many CRC errors, the modem will lower the sync rate using less of the bandwidth on the twisted pair.

You're going to notice when the errors get too high, but after it adjusts the only thing you'll notice is that your internet is slower.

 

[blum81]

Eh...I thought the same way until I moved downtown and signed up with Novus. The internet was down approximately 50% of the time for the week I had it before I switched back to Shaw. Mind you, this was a few years ago, so maybe they've rectified the situation.

I've been with novus since 2006 and I've never had the problems you're stating. Before that I bounced back and forth between shaw/telus and I just found the customer service and internet/tv seemed a lot more consistent than shaw/telus.

I also like the fact that if shaw/telus have some crazy promo out to lure me back to them, novus will match the promo no questions asked. Just recently Shaw had offered me internet/cable for $45/month for 6 months. Called novus and matched it and extended that promo for an additional 6 months.

On top of that, if I need to call for a billing or technical support question it's usually answered within 30 seconds of being placed in the queue or right away.

Happy customer here!

p.s. no, i'm not an employee, that's just how highly I think of novus.