Confirmed with Link: Shattenkirk and Copley for 2017 1st, 2019 Cond' 2nd, Sanford and Malone

twabby

Registered User
Mar 9, 2010
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yea, you can make a case that both alzner and orpik could be gone next season. replacing Carlson with Shattenkirk would be a twabby wet dream, but I am not sure who they have left to kill penalties.

It's an unpopular opinion, but learning to kill penalties probably isn't that hard compared to most elements of the game. I'd give Schmidt and Orlov a shot at it, if not Shattenkirk himself. I'd rather build a dominant ES and PP blue line with elite skill than worry too much about PKing. Holtby is still the nuclear bomb on the PK and I bet any set of NHL D would look good with him back there.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

At least there was 2018.
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Shattenkirk would have to absolutely kill it offensively to warrant keeping him over Carlson and he'd also need to take a discount. He's not as versatile as Carlson, who has had far heavier PK usage as well as primarily shutdown duty. He would have to really excel offensively and in his hockey IQ generally to force that sort of decision. Combine that with likely losing Alzner and I doubt it's the blueline dynamic they're likely to prefer (that's in addition to a higher AAV next season).

It would be one thing if one of the three RD moves over to the left side and that's maybe the most interesting aspect of this. That needs to be experimented with at some point during the regular season. If they get down I'd hope they'd run with it, esp. when both 27/44 are playing.

I think there are a variety of interesting moves that could occur this offseason and I don't think there will be anything off the table, especially if they don't win the Cup. If after the season Shattenkirk's reps said he loved his time in DC and will stay for 7x7, and say Colorado offered up Duchene or Landeskog straight up for Carlson, do you do it?

Other questions on defense... does Alzner resign, and if so, at what cost? Do they trade Orpik? Who gets picked at the expansion draft? How does Bowey look after coming back from injury? Do they see more minutes in Schmidt's future? Tons of moving parts here.
 

Midnight Judges

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I'm not thinking about next season yet. I just want a 27-22 pairing so we can finally have a "Shatner" pairing.

Should trade for Ryan Spooner, pair him with Orpik, and make the Spok pair.

And we could get Michal Rozsival, pair him with Orlov, and make the Czechov line.
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
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Should trade for Ryan Spooner, pair him with Orpik, and make the Spok pair.

And we could get Michal Rozsival, pair him with Orlov, and make the Czechov line.

And then we can name shattenKirk the captain of the team.

And invite the crew of the USS Zumwalt and their Captain James Kirk to be guests of honor at a game.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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It's an unpopular opinion, but learning to kill penalties probably isn't that hard compared to most elements of the game. I'd give Schmidt and Orlov a shot at it, if not Shattenkirk himself. I'd rather build a dominant ES and PP blue line with elite skill than worry too much about PKing. Holtby is still the nuclear bomb on the PK and I bet any set of NHL D would look good with him back there.

So to summarize in your unpopular opinion, 1)anyone can learn to play great D on the PK and 2)you can throw any NHL level defenders out there as long as you have 70, and crush it on the PK?

Sometimes I wonder if you're alergic to the concept of defense, it's role, and worth.
 

Stewie G

Needed more hitting!
Oct 19, 2009
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Perhaps the impact of a X% drop in PK effectiveness by can be offset by tilting the ice at ES. If games are called tighter in the playoffs, there will be more ES play and fewer PK opportunities, so it makes sense to put your focus on the areas of greatest potential impact.
 

twabby

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Mar 9, 2010
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So to summarize in your unpopular opinion, 1)anyone can learn to play great D on the PK and 2)you can throw any NHL level defenders out there as long as you have 70, and crush it on the PK?

Sometimes I wonder if you're alergic to the concept of defense, it's role, and worth.

It's more that there isn't as much variation in defensive skills as there are offensive skills IMO. Top tier offensive talent is so much more impactful on goal-differential than top-tier defensive talent. The difference between Crosby or McDavid and an average offensive player is much greater than the difference between Hjalmarsson or Bergeron and an average defensive player, for instance. More importantly, good offensive players are typically more expensive than good defensive players so the market certainly agrees that offensive skills are worth more.

As another example, if Alzner (the team's worst offensive player) suddenly took a spot on PP1 and Ovechkin (the team's worst defensive player) suddenly took a spot on PK1, which unit would suffer more? I'd say PP1 would grind to a halt while PK1 would still stay respectable.

I'd much, much rather focus on getting the pieces in place that can be dynamic offensively at ES and the PP (this includes good defensemen, not George McPhee puck-movers) and then figure out the details on the PK later.
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
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New Bern, NC
So to summarize in your unpopular opinion, 1)anyone can learn to play great D on the PK and 2)you can throw any NHL level defenders out there as long as you have 70, and crush it on the PK?

Sometimes I wonder if you're alergic to the concept of defense, it's role, and worth.

Defense is hard to learn. There's a reason why most high end defenders, both defensemen and forwards, are veterans. This is one of the reasons that I am impressed by Wilson. He is young and has become very good at it.

The other thing about defending and penalty killing is that it hurts. It takes courage and sacrifice. A lot of players just aren't willing to "go all in" to do that.

Of course someone that has little respect for defenders wouldn't buy in to any of that.
 

BiPolar Caps

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Feb 9, 2010
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NHL Network last night noted that the Caps blue line has only scored 3 Power Play goals this season where as Shattenkirk has 7. At the very least, he'll improve the power play.
 

RandyHolt

Keep truckin'
Nov 3, 2006
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It is interesting that some dare mention Kevin is not....let's say the strongest in the def zone 5 on 5, yet the advanced stats say he is dominating at ES. Laughlin and Boomer were talking about it on NHL radio, that perhaps the eye test is failing for him.

IMO he needs little to no practice time to learn how to play catch with Nick nor learn where Ovi needs the puck. Our current PP struggles are not about players unable to feed Ovi, its how teams now defend us after years of stupidity. Teams aren't just cheating Ovi, they are cheating the top, forcing the other 3 to beat us. Its all a good test for playoff PKs that dial up aggressiveness. Well, everyone except Hakstol's.
 
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Alexander the Gr8

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May 2, 2013
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Toronto
It is interesting that some dare mention Kevin is not....let's say the strongest in the def zone 5 on 5, yet the advanced stats say he is dominating at ES. Laughlin and Boomer were talking about it on NHL radio, that perhaps the eye test is failing for him.

IMO he needs little to no practice time to learn how to play catch with Nick nor where Ovi needs the puck. Our current PP struggles are not about players unable to feed Ovi, its how teams now defend us after years of stupidity. Teams aren't just cheating Ovi, they are cheating the top, forcing the other 3 to beat us. Its all a good test for playoff PKs that dial up aggressiveness. Well, everyone except Hakstol's.

I don't care if our PP runs through Oshie and Shattenkirk scoring goals instead of Ovi, just as long as one of our 5 guys score I'm happy. This season we've been making teams pay on the PP through the man in the high slot. Oshie and Williams are getting glorious chances on almost every PP.
 

sycamore

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Jan 16, 2010
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I'm not going to breathe easy until the deadline is over. Pens could still find a way to snag Duchene (though I think the Islanders have the inside track in that situation).
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
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As another example, if Alzner (the team's worst offensive player) suddenly took a spot on PP1 and Ovechkin (the team's worst defensive player) suddenly took a spot on PK1, which unit would suffer more? I'd say PP1 would grind to a halt while PK1 would still stay respectable.
If you're putting Ovechkin at RD on PK1, in order to assume more equal relative importance, then PK1 would not stay respectable. PP1 would take a big hit as well but would at least still have one finisher in Oshie and perhaps better point play from 22.

The thing about PPs vs. PKs is you can hide a player on the PP but you can't so much when defending. It's going to show up and it's going to be more obviously costly. Whereas the costs of not scoring are frustrating but coaches will tolerate that to a greater extent.

As good as Holtby is, he is not so good as to deny killer seam pass chances, failed clear after clear, not putting up players and other defensive hi-jinx that a quality defense in the front of him minimizes. He's not Hasek.
 

OV Rocks

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Jan 5, 2014
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How good has St. Louis been to the Caps lately?

The Blues are that girl in college you can always text a 2 am on a Thursday night when you are feeling "bored".
 

Alexander the Gr8

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May 2, 2013
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How good has St. Louis been to the Caps lately?

The Blues are that girl in college you can always text a 2 am on a Thursday night when you are feeling "bored".

Or, reversing the genders, the Blues are the guy who has a crush on the school's prettiest girl and keeps buying her gifts in hopes of getting something in return :laugh:

Reading the Rags board, some fans are now trying to convince themselves that they don't need Shatty and trading for Smith was the best decision :laugh::handclap:
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
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New Bern, NC
heard some interesting stuff. Friedman last night made it sound like there was a soft offer from the Rangers and otherwise there was nothing going on with Shattenkirk. Which is why the Caps could swoop in.

NHLN had an attitude with Hradek and the other guy there that the Caps were over doing it and this would actually hurt them.

They had one of the St Louis guys on who said that Shattenkirk wants an 8th year on his deal and a NTC. He then said that 22 was a 3rd pairing d who plays less than 20 mins and that Blues didn't want to pay that contract considering his role.

That last part sounded remarkably like where the Capitals were the last of with Mike Green. Two things seem to be true about the Green situation. He was not worth the contract that Detroit gave him and the Caps were unable to replace him requiring the get of Shattenkirk.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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He's at worst what? A Yandle-type? Somebody is going to pay for that guy and probably be underwhelmed in the long run if true.
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
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New Bern, NC
He's at worst what? A Yandle-type? Somebody is going to pay for that guy and probably be underwhelmed in the long run if true.

I did see this today. NHLN was talking about the Senators and showing the B roll that goes with that team and I saw a hideous Shattenkirk turnover the ended up in their net. It was a deep dish pizza.
 

Alexander the Gr8

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May 2, 2013
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Toronto
I'm not going to breathe easy until the deadline is over. Pens could still find a way to snag Duchene (though I think the Islanders have the inside track in that situation).

If they weren't willing to pay the price for a Shattenkirk rental, they sure as hell won't pay the price for Duchene who's under contract for two more years at a reasonable price. I think the Avs will wait until this summer to re-evaluate their team and perhaps sell Duchene. I don't think anyone will pay the price for Duchene now.
 

Raikkonen

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Aug 19, 2009
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I did see this today. NHLN was talking about the Senators and showing the B roll that goes with that team and I saw a hideous Shattenkirk turnover the ended up in their net. It was a deep dish pizza.

Okay. Pizza Masters pair. Best advanced stats in the Universe.

Orlov-Shattenkirk.

Sponsored by Papa John's.
 

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