GDT: Sharks vs. Panthers 7:30pm The Return of Ryan

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Quid Pro Clowe

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Donskoi hasn't scored a goal since January 10th.

Or over two months.

Or 25 games.

Dude needs to get his shit together. Don't deflect and make this about him vs Haley.
 
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rideaucrusher21

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Donskoi hasn't scored a goal since January 10th.

Or over two months.

Or 25 games.

Dude needs to get his **** together. Don't deflect and make this about him vs Haley.
He’s also been attached to Hertl’s hip essentially the entire time. And Hertl has been on an absolute tear over that time. Not to say Donskoi isn’t without faults, but he’s been doing an excellent job as a sidekick for Hertl. Maybe Hertl produces at the same rate or better without Donskoi, but what we know is that Donskoi really hasn’t slowed down that line at all. He may not be getting the points, but I think he’s been contributing as part of probably the team’s best line.

I agree he could/should be putting the puck in the net more, but I don’t think he should be in danger of losing his spot in the lineup.
 
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DeadGhost

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I can understand the sensitivity to it but I would just say to make sure that the emotions are directed where it belongs. Dislike Hoffman to whatever extent works for you but the banner is just a fan having a little fun and nothing more.
Agreed. I don’t believe the fan made that sign in support of cyber-bullying.
 

DeadGhost

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Haley is Teflon. One way or another this guy will stay in the lineup until April, May, or hopefully June.
 

WSS11

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Donskoi hasn't scored a goal since January 10th.

Or over two months.

Or 25 games.

Dude needs to get his **** together. Don't deflect and make this about him vs Haley.

Ok and Haley hasn’t done shit in his entire career. You’ll get no argument from me that Donskoi doesn’t belong in the top 6 but having him benched out of 4th line minutes in favor of Haley is asinine. Once Kane is back then it does become Haley vs Donskoi and even at his worst Donskoi is a better option than Haley plain and simple.
 

Quid Pro Clowe

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You guys just want to bitch about Haley at the expense of anything. You'll even defend a player that outside of a few flashes hasn't done shit since almost the beginning of the year.

Donskoi needs to be better. Simple as that. If he's going to get scratched it's because of his play, not in favor of Haley. Don't see why this is so hard to understand.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
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I can understand the sensitivity to it but I would just say to make sure that the emotions are directed where it belongs. Dislike Hoffman to whatever extent works for you but the banner is just a fan having a little fun and nothing more.

I don’t even dislike Hoffman. But Erik Karlsson certainly does and I doubt he liked seeing somebody honoring the man who he took to court last summer, even if Hoffman was only honored in a jestful manner. It’s especially insensitive and poorly timed given the news that came from Kane earlier yesterday.
 

Bizz

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Haley at least hits people. Expecting 4th liners to put up Connor McDavid numbers is pointless and unrealistic. Same thing with putting a player who should be producing that isn't there in hopes he starts figuring it out.
 

Barrie22

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You guys just want to ***** about Haley at the expense of anything. You'll even defend a player that outside of a few flashes hasn't done **** since almost the beginning of the year.

Donskoi needs to be better. Simple as that. If he's going to get scratched it's because of his play, not in favor of Haley. Don't see why this is so hard to understand.

And wtf has haley done to deserve staying in the lineup?
 

Quid Pro Clowe

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How the **** is Haley Vs. Donskoi deflecting when the coach’s decision is literally going to be Haley Vs. Donskoi?
Because that's not what is or has happened.

DeBoer has moved Donskoi all around trying to get some production. He hasn't done jack shit. You guys would be bagging on him big time if it wasn't for the fact Haley was on the roster.
 

Barrie22

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Because that's not what is or has happened.

DeBoer has moved Donskoi all aroumd trying to get some production. He hasn't done jack ****. You guys would be bagging on him big time if it wasn't for the fact Haley was on the roster.

We are bagging on donskoi but at 0 point in an nhl season/preseason should haley stay in the lineup while donakoi gets benched.

Haley does didly squat better then donskoi outside of fighting and he doesn't even do that enough to warrent him staying in the lineup.
 

Quid Pro Clowe

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We are bagging on donskoi but at 0 point in an nhl season/preseason should haley stay in the lineup while donakoi gets benched.

Haley does didly squat better then donskoi outside of fighting and he doesn't even do that enough to warrent him staying in the lineup.
Haley had a better game (Chicago) in less than 10 minutes than Donskoi has had in over 2 months.

Again, Haley sucks. Again, Donskoi is better. But Donskoi deserves to sit a game or 2 right now. Sit him for Radil for all I care.
 

DG93

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Haley had a better game (Chicago) in less than 10 minutes than Donskoi has had in over 2 months.

Again, Haley sucks. Again, Donskoi is better. But Donskoi deserves to sit a game or 2 right now. Sit him for Radil for all I care.

I'd be okay with sitting Donskoi for a game if it was Radil coming into the lineup, who has proven to be more or less an effective 4th line guy. But no matter how bad Donskoi has been, scratching him for a traffic cone on skates makes zero sense. It's actively making the team worse for a game or two just for the purposes of "sending a message." imo.
 
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TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
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You guys just want to ***** about Haley at the expense of anything. You'll even defend a player that outside of a few flashes hasn't done **** since almost the beginning of the year.

Donskoi needs to be better. Simple as that. If he's going to get scratched it's because of his play, not in favor of Haley. Don't see why this is so hard to understand.

Nobody wants to bitch about Haley as much as you want to defend him. The one here with the biggest bias is you in favor of Haley and the proof is in the pudding when you say things like “Radil has sucked butt since January” and “Donskoi hasn’t done shit since almost the beginning of the year”.

In reality, Donskoi doesn’t have a goal in 25 games but at 5-on-5, he has 31 shots and 9 assists, he’s been on the ice for 15 goals for and 12 goals against, and the Sharks have controlled 59.65% of the high danger chances with him. That’s Donskoi’s bad stretch and he’s still posting the kind of positive contributions that Haley can never dream of.

For Radil, he’s played in 16 games since January and he only has 2 goals and 1 assist over that time frame but he’s also got 7 shots and he’s been on the ice for 7 goals for and only 2 goals against and the Sharks control over 57% of the shot attempts and high danger chances with him. Again, that’s Radil’s bad stretch and he’s still posting the kind of positive contributions that Haley can never dream of.

The reason people are angry about Haley playing over these guys is not because Donskoi or Radil have been fantastic or playing the best hockey of their career as of late. They are angry because Donskoi and Radil in their poor stretches are still posting greater positive contributions than Haley can ever dream of, and they also still have another level of much better play that they can reach.

Haley at least hits people. Expecting 4th liners to put up Connor McDavid numbers is pointless and unrealistic.

Haley is a career minus player with 9 goals and 30 in 240 games and horrible underlying metrics. There is a Nabokov’s 5-hole sized gap between his numbers and Connor McDavid’s and somebody like Joonas Donskoi, a career plus player with 11 goals and 34 points this season and fantastic underlying metrics, is the guy that should be demoted to the 4th line when everybody is healthy.

Haley’s physicality is useless because he doesn’t have the skating ability or the hockey IQ/positioning to use it to separate players from pucks. More often than not, he’s going to put himself out of position or take a penalty by going for a hit that isn’t there.
 

Quid Pro Clowe

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0 goals 9 assists in 25 games playing primarily with top-6 forwards who are producing just fine.

That's a whole lot of diving into stats just to confirm he hasn't produced offensively while playing with Hertl, Meier, Couture, Pavelski, Kane etc.

Radil wasn't scoring when he was removed. He had a much shorter leash than most and I wish he got to work through it more, but he didn't.

Haley brings things that his coaches and teammates say, but aren't quantifiable. That doesn't make them 100% right, but if they believe it the placebo effect is real.
 

Juxtaposer

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Dec 21, 2009
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This is ridiculous. I’ve bagged on Donskoi more than ANYONE but defending the concept of scratching him over Haley is absolutely bonkers.

Joonas Donskoi is a better hockey player and brings more to the lineup on a nightly basis than Micheal Haley. I can’t believe this is controversial.
 
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Pinkfloyd

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Oct 29, 2006
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I don’t even dislike Hoffman. But Erik Karlsson certainly does and I doubt he liked seeing somebody honoring the man who he took to court last summer, even if Hoffman was only honored in a jestful manner. It’s especially insensitive and poorly timed given the news that came from Kane earlier yesterday.

Considering the context in which it is made and its intent, I don’t think it’s insensitve because it just isn’t about that and it’s unrelated to Kane. You have to be able to separate the banner and its intent from the other things.
 

Sysreq

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Apr 9, 2015
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This is ridiculous. I’ve bagged on Donskoi more than ANYONE but defending the concept of scratching him over Haley is absolutely bonkers.

Joonas Donskoi is a better hockey player and brings more to the lineup on a nightly basis than Micheal Haley. I can’t believe this is controversial.

Donskoi is absolutely a better overall player. But Michael Haley plays his ROLE better. I think being a healthy scratch in a contract year could be exactly what we need to see Donskoi start producing. He needs to find that next level.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
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Considering the context in which it is made and its intent, I don’t think it’s insensitve because it just isn’t about that and it’s unrelated to Kane. You have to be able to separate the banner and its intent from the other things.

It doesn’t really matter what the intent of the banner is. At the end of the day, they’re “honoring” and acting buddy buddy with a guy who Karlsson took to court over some pretty serious allegations. Whether or not Hoffman actually did any of it, Karlsson sure as hell thinks he does and the comments from other wives and girlfriends suggest that Hoffman did.

If somebody I love and care for accused another person of a disgusting and abusive act like that which Karlsson accused Hoffman of, I wouldn’t “honor” that person in any manner in front of the person I love and care for and I wouldn’t act buddy buddy with that person in public. I wouldn’t have to hate them and I may not even believe the allegations but I would still show common decency to the accuser. The person who made the banner didn’t do that.

It isn’t technically related to Kane but the timing of Kane’s situation makes it more awkward and insensitive. Hoffman allegedly cyber bullied a member of the Sharks over his dead child, yesterday a different member of the Sharks announced his child died, and then these guys felt to need to honor Hoffman. It’s just stupid.
 

Sysreq

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With Kane back, I think you absolutely run:
Kane - Hertl - Nyquist
Sorenson - Thornton - Labanc

Which leaves:
Timo - Couture - Pavelski

Donskoi doesn’t PK, is rarely on the PP and can’t fight or play heavy.

So I think Karlsson and Goodrow are safe for that reason alone. Is that forth line really made better by Donskoi? I don’t think the other two really need a play maker to be honest. I think he is gonna drag them down by simply playing too fast and fancy a game.
 
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