Rumor: Sharks GM Doug Wilson looking desperately to get a first for rebuild mode

[Dr Quincy]

Couture and Hertl aren’t strong centers?

Are either upper echelon #1s? They are both 1B kinda Centers.

Look at Cup teams like PITT or WAS.

Crosby/Malkin
Backstrom/Kuznetsov

WAS last year had 2 guys who had over 70 pts and Backstrom is CONSISTENTLY a 70-80 py player.

Now look at Couture- 54, 67, 36, 52, 61, 70

and Hertl- 1 season over 46 pts.

Again, totally fine players and either one could be a good #2 on a Cup winning team, but neither is a Crosby/Backstrom/Kopitar/Toews/Bergeron level of guy. And with "meh" wingers, and less than "meh" goalies, it's not a championship go for it all kind of roster in anyway.

 

[Crazy Joe Divola]

If Couture isn't a top-6 forward, being first in points on the team, then I guess the Sharks have zero top-6 forwards.

he’s first in points on a bad team that’s going to miss the playoffs. Super.

can you honestly say you’ve watched him all year and he’s been consistently good? I have and I can’t. Same goes for Meier.

they are “top 6” forwards in a vacuum if playing well consistently. This year, in context, they have not been performing like it consistently.

 

[Crazy Joe Divola]

Are either upper echelon #1s? They are both 1B kinda Centers.

Look at Cup teams like PITT or WAS.

Crosby/Malkin
Backstrom/Kuznetsov

WAS last year had 2 guys who had over 70 pts and Backstrom is CONSISTENTLY a 70-80 py player.

Now look at Couture- 54, 67, 36, 52, 61, 70

and Hertl- 1 season over 46 pts.

Again, totally fine players and either one could be a good #2 on a Cup winning team, but neither is a Crosby/Backstrom/Kopitar/Toews/Bergeron level of guy. And with "meh" wingers, and less than "meh" goalies, it's not a championship go for it all kind of roster in anyway.

look at what hertl and couture have done in the playoffs.

 

[SharksFan1]

he’s first in points on a bad team that’s going to miss the playoffs. Super.

can you honestly say you’ve watched him all year and he’s been consistently good? I have and I can’t. Same goes for Meier.

they are “top 6” forwards in a vacuum if playing well consistently. This year, in context, they have not been performing like it consistently.

Well in that case I'd say pretty much all of the forwards have under performed, and Burns isn't a top-2 defenseman either. Saying Couture isn't a top-6 forward simply based on this year is ridiculous and saying they Sharks only have 2 top-6 forwards is as well.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Are either upper echelon #1s? They are both 1B kinda Centers.

Look at Cup teams like PITT or WAS.

Crosby/Malkin
Backstrom/Kuznetsov

WAS last year had 2 guys who had over 70 pts and Backstrom is CONSISTENTLY a 70-80 py player.

Now look at Couture- 54, 67, 36, 52, 61, 70

and Hertl- 1 season over 46 pts.

Again, totally fine players and either one could be a good #2 on a Cup winning team, but neither is a Crosby/Backstrom/Kopitar/Toews/Bergeron level of guy. And with "meh" wingers, and less than "meh" goalies, it's not a championship go for it all kind of roster in anyway.

They had 70 and 74 points respectively last year and Bergeron wasn't a 70 point player when Boston won with him. I don't think Toews was either when they won their 1st and 3rd Cups. I agree the Sharks don't have a championship roster but it's not because of Couture and Hertl.

 

[Team Cozens]

Hertl
Jones 4 x $5.75

for

2020 - 1st (protected)
Mittelstadt
Montour
Okposo 3 x $6 (10% retained)
Hutton 1 x $2.75

 

[Groo]

Hertl
Jones 4 x $5.75

for

2020 - 1st (protected)
Mittelstadt
Montour
Okposo 3 x $6 (10% retained)
Hutton 1 x $2.75

Heck no

 

[Crazy Joe Divola]

Well in that case I'd say pretty much all of the forwards have under performed, and Burns isn't a top-2 defenseman either. Saying Couture isn't a top-6 forward simply based on this year is ridiculous and saying they Sharks only have 2 top-6 forwards is as well.

Context dude.

I think Burns is a #1 D, let alone top 2. But this year he has been bad and is closer to 3/4 D levels, worse even on some nights.

I think couture is a top 3 forward, let alone top 6. But this year, he has not been. Atleast not consistently enough. I think Meier is a top 6 forward, but this year, he has not played at that level consistently enough. Hence him playing third line wing in their last game.

So, this year, the sharks have, in my opinion, 2-3 forwards who have consistently played like top 6 forwards.

our forwards and our goal are why we suck. Norris Burns wouldn’t save this team, this year.

I think they’ll rebound fine next year if DW can find some top 6 talent and addresses the goal. Or if Dell can maintain his somewhat average level play over a length of time atleast.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Hertl
Jones 4 x $5.75

for

2020 - 1st (protected)
Mittelstadt
Montour
Okposo 3 x $6 (10% retained)
Hutton 1 x $2.75

Don't think the Sharks are that desperate to get rid of Jones.

 

[Crazy Joe Divola]

Don't think the Sharks are that desperate to get rid of Jones.

more like Okposno, amiright.

 

[izzy]

He's a very vanilla player. You hope to hit on a guy like that cheaply like Ottawa did with Namestnikov. Florida signed a comparable but better Brett Connolly cheaply. 1sts are the best chance a team has at getting an impact player for a decade

late firsts, you are hoping develop into a 40-50 point player (labanc).

labanc is top 10 in scoring for his draft class.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

more like Okposno, amiright.

The cringe is strong here. lol

 

[Kuznetsnow]

late firsts, you are hoping develop into a 40-50 point player (labanc).

labanc is top 10 in scoring for his draft class.

No late firsts you are hoping to develop into impact players and settle for 40-50 point players which are nice to have but which can also be easily scooped up like Fabbri, Duclair, Connolly etc were

Does Kevin Labanc move the needle for any sort of contender? He can hang on the PP with better players but so can many others. Compare his impact on the game to that of a guy like Meier for instance

 

[matt trick]

Are either upper echelon #1s? They are both 1B kinda Centers.

Look at Cup teams like PITT or WAS.

Crosby/Malkin
Backstrom/Kuznetsov

WAS last year had 2 guys who had over 70 pts and Backstrom is CONSISTENTLY a 70-80 py player.

Now look at Couture- 54, 67, 36, 52, 61, 70

and Hertl- 1 season over 46 pts.

Again, totally fine players and either one could be a good #2 on a Cup winning team, but neither is a Crosby/Backstrom/Kopitar/Toews/Bergeron level of guy. And with "meh" wingers, and less than "meh" goalies, it's not a championship go for it all kind of roster in anyway.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you a Blues fan? I think there's an argument to be had that Couture and Hertl are better than Schenn and O'Reilly (though you could argue is the best of the four) ?

St. Louis had a way, way, way better system than San Jose, and far superior goaltending. Also, Pietro and Parayko were absolutely spectacular last year.

 

[Crazy Joe Divola]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you a Blues fan? I think there's an argument to be had that Couture and Hertl are better than Schenn and O'Reilly (though you could argue is the best of the four) ?

St. Louis had a way, way, way better system than San Jose, and far superior goaltending. Also, Pietro and Parayko were absolutely spectacular last year.

Last year couture has 20 points in 20 playoff games to ROR’s 23 points in 26 playoffs games. Hertl 15 points in 19 playoff games (missed game 6 with injury), Schenn 12 points in 26 playoff games.

 

[Sysreq]

They had 70 and 74 points respectively last year and Bergeron wasn't a 70 point player when Boston won with him. I don't think Toews was either when they won their 1st and 3rd Cups. I agree the Sharks don't have a championship roster but it's not because of Couture and Hertl.

I think you are missing the nuance of what is being expressed here. Couture and Hertl are fine hockey players. Very good hockey players. But ask yourself: is either a HOFer? Do they belong amongst the Crosby’s, Kane’s, McDavid’s, Ovechekin’s of the NHL? It’s not that they are not good. They are good. Think about the top duos on each team. Crosby/Malkin. Toews/Kane. I mean, ya, Couture is probably as good as Toews. But Hertl isn’t Kane. Hertl is as good as Malkin. But Couture isn’t Crosby. Look at Backstrum and Ovi. McDavid and Drai. These are two 1Bs being asked to fill a 1A spot.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think you are missing the nuance of what is being expressed here. Couture and Hertl are fine hockey players. Very good hockey players. But ask yourself: is either a HOFer? Do they belong amongst the Crosby’s, Kane’s, McDavid’s, Ovechekin’s of the NHL? It’s not that they are not good. They are good. Think about the top duos on each team. Crosby/Malkin. Toews/Kane. I mean, ya, Couture is probably as good as Toews. But Hertl isn’t Kane. Hertl is as good as Malkin. But Couture isn’t Crosby. Look at Backstrum and Ovi. McDavid and Drai. These are two 1Bs being asked to fill a 1A spot.

O'Reilly is not on their levels either yet the Blues won. There's more than one or two ways to build a team to win a Stanley Cup.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you a Blues fan? I think there's an argument to be had that Couture and Hertl are better than Schenn and O'Reilly (though you could argue is the best of the four) ?

St. Louis had a way, way, way better system than San Jose, and far superior goaltending. Also, Pietro and Parayko were absolutely spectacular last year.

Nope,not a Blues fan in the slightest.

And you're missing the point. Let's say you are right and sometimes teams without 2 #1 centers or 1 #1C who is the best in the league and a #2C who is better than avg #2 guy end up winning.

Yup. They do. BOS won it that way with 2 guys who put up #2 C pts (but one of whom was a Selke winner, just like STL last year). But both those BOS and STL teams had elite level goaltending, and both those teams weren't seen as Cup favorites that year, so it's hard to say that they were "built to win now". That BOS team wasn't in any way "built to win now" which is what this argument was about.

So absolutely a team with Hertl and Couture as centers COULD win a Cup. But if that team was built with those 2 and didn't have elite goaltending I woudn't say they were built to win now, especially when the cast around those guys up front is pretty sparse. If the Sharks were "built to win now" they would have added another F or 2 and not relied on Thornton or Marleau or Blichfield or Suomela or Goodrow et al to play in the top 6.

 

[Dr Quincy]

look at what hertl and couture have done in the playoffs.

Hertl's postseason career pts put him at a 55 pt/82 game pace.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I think you are missing the nuance of what is being expressed here. Couture and Hertl are fine hockey players. Very good hockey players. But ask yourself: is either a HOFer? Do they belong amongst the Crosby’s, Kane’s, McDavid’s, Ovechekin’s of the NHL? It’s not that they are not good. They are good. Think about the top duos on each team. Crosby/Malkin. Toews/Kane. I mean, ya, Couture is probably as good as Toews. But Hertl isn’t Kane. Hertl is as good as Malkin. But Couture isn’t Crosby. Look at Backstrum and Ovi. McDavid and Drai. These are two 1Bs being asked to fill a 1A spot.

Exactly, and again that CAN work..... if you have a great winger or 2 or if you have elite goaltending.

 

[Crazy Joe Divola]

Hertl's postseason career pts put him at a 55 pt/82 game pace.

24 points in 29 games last two seasons and he’s 26 years old.

 

[dkollidas]

Heck no

how about simplified:

To San Jose:
C- Casey Mittelstadt
D- Brandon Montour
2020 1st Round Pick (top 3 protected?)

To Buffalo:
C- Tomas Hertl

 

[Kegsey]

how about simplified:

To San Jose:
C- Casey Mittelstadt
D- Brandon Montour
2020 1st Round Pick (top 3 protected?)

To Buffalo:
C- Tomas Hertl

No? How the f*** does that help our goaltending?

 

[Groo]

how about simplified:

To San Jose:
C- Casey Mittelstadt
D- Brandon Montour
2020 1st Round Pick (top 3 protected?)

To Buffalo:
C- Tomas Hertl

Not even
I'm not in favor if trading Hertl at all
But for the purpose of this thread
Cozens/Samuelsson./unproteded 1st moves the needle

 

[Crazy Joe Divola]

24 points in 29 games last two seasons and he’s 26 years old.

and Couture has 70 points in 60 playoff games. Crosby has 68 points in his last 60. Malkin 57 in his last 61.