tiburon12
Registered User
- Jul 18, 2009
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We also don't know if the Sharks even had an interest in Nedeljkovic
this probably has something to do with why he wasn't an option too
We also don't know if the Sharks even had an interest in Nedeljkovic
Yep. Give me 1 year or 3 years. Prefer 1 and then give him a 3-5 year deal from there. Anything but 2 though and I will be happy.I honestly don't care what Hill's cap hit is. Just make sure it's not a 2 year deal.
He was also unclaimed on waivers this season, has a career .904 AHL save percentage, was about to be non-tendered and become a UFA so their feet were over the fire even moreso than Arizona. Also, assuming Bernier is signed then that is also value far superior than what Korenar added to the Hill deal. He's also 5'11 and not sure there are many goalies that project long-term at that height.
but this would mean we cant scream FiRe DwHe was also unclaimed on waivers this season, has a career .904 AHL save percentage, was about to be non-tendered and become a UFA so their feet were over the fire even moreso than Arizona. Also, assuming Bernier is signed then that is also value far superior than what Korenar added to the Hill deal. He's also 5'11 and not sure there are many goalies that project long-term at that height.
but this would mean we cant scream FiRe Dw
So Sharks are winning the lottery and Detroit is winning the Cup? Is that how you come up with the 60? Because in actuality it’s a hell of a lot closer to 30 than 60. And if by roughly the same number of games you mean less than 60% of the games of Hill then sure. Roughly the same.Clearly we should be building a statue of him on West Santa Clara for giving up a pick ~60 slots higher for a goalie who has been slightly worse than Hill in the AHL and much better than Hill in the NHL over roughly the same number of games in both leagues at the same age.
So Sharks are winning the lottery and Carolina is winning the Cup? Is that how you come up with the 60? Because in actuality it’s a hell of a lot closer to 30 than 60.
Guess who had better AHL numbers and a better first 25 games than Ned, while also being an undersized goalie? Alex Stalock. Sure you know how good he turned out to be after the flash in the pan.Clearly we should be building a statue of him on West Santa Clara for giving up a pick ~60 slots higher for a goalie who has been slightly worse than Hill in the AHL and much better than Hill in the NHL over roughly the same number of games in both leagues at the same age.
Guess who had better AHL numbers and a better first 25 games than Ned, while also being an undersized goalie? Alex Stalock. Sure you know how good he turned out to be after the flash in the pan.
Another similar story, Aaron Dell.
How about The hamburglar?
Matt Murray?
Tristen Jarry?
Its not uncommon for a goalie to come in and put up stellar numbers for 25 games and then fade into nothing. It’s a lot more prevalent that they’re a flash in the pan if they’re undersized and didn’t post good AHL numbers, which Ned fits that profile exactly.
Apart from the bit about size, which is being way overblown, how does any of this not also apply to Adin Hill? His NHL sample size is just as small. There is every bit as much risk of Hill flaming out as Nedeljkovic we just gave up more value to place a similar bet.
Hill is a lot bigger, which translates to the NHL a lot better than being undersized as a goalie. Show me a sub 6’0” goalie that is a quality starter since the pad change.Apart from the bit about size, which is being way overblown, how does any of this not also apply to Adin Hill? His NHL sample size is just as small. There is every bit as much risk of Hill flaming out as Nedeljkovic we just gave up more value to place a similar bet.
Ned hasn’t posted numbers anywhere besides this one year that indicates he is NHL starter material.
I moderately agree. I’m not necessarily a huge fan of giving up that second for a goalie when I don’t believe we should be spending futures, but a second for a guy like Hill isn’t terrible. We have up a first for Martin Jones when he was in a similar position. Lehner also went for a first to Buffalo as a similar young goalie. Same with Talbot.This is true but that's still one more year than Hill has ever had that indicates he is NHL starter material.
Regardless I'm not saying the Sharks should have traded for Ned either. I have no idea whether Ned will be any good just like I have no idea whether Hill will be any good just like I have no idea whether any goalie on the planet outside of Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck will be any good in any given year.
My argument has always been it didn't make sense to give up a high 2nd round pick for an unproven goalie when you can choose from other similar goalies at a lower acquisition cost or no cost at all via UFA. Especially for a team that isn't (or at least has no rational reason to be) in win now mode.
This is true but that's still one more year than Hill has ever had that indicates he is NHL starter material.
Regardless I'm not saying the Sharks should have traded for Ned either. I have no idea whether Ned will be any good just like I have no idea whether Hill will be any good just like I have no idea whether any goalie on the planet outside of Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck will be any good in any given year.
My argument has always been it didn't make sense to give up a high 2nd round pick for an unproven goalie when you can choose from other similar goalies at a lower acquisition cost or no cost at all via UFA. Especially for a team that isn't (or at least has no rational reason to be) in win now mode.
Who are the similar UFA goalies?
Who are the similar UFA goalies?
Does it matter? DW could've traded Jones for Price at 50% retention and people'd still whine about it.
I’ve been a big Ullmark fan since he was a rookie. My friend from upstate NY that got me into hockey was a sabres fans, so I’ve seen a lot of him. Would be happy if they signed him or even Mrazek for a 1A/1B type thing.By definition no UFA goalies are 25 years old if that's what you're getting at. But in terms of actual performance I would guess Ullmark, Andersen and Mrazek all have a good chance of outperforming Hill over the next two years that we have him under team control for. There are others like Rittich and Brossoit as well who have similar profiles to Hill with more NHL experience.
Personally I don't believe there's much of a difference between the 10th and 50th best goalie so most of these options don't seem better or worse to me than Hill except that you don't have to give anything up to get them. The problem with the Sharks over the past few years is that Jones appears to be a lot worse than the 50th best goalie in the league but they kept rolling him out there. Almost anyone would be a substantial improvement.
Not sure if real but I thought I just saw Ulmark resigned with the Sabres. Can't imagine why though.I’ve been a big Ullmark fan since he was a rookie. My friend from upstate NY that got me into hockey was a sabres fans, so I’ve seen a lot of him. Would be happy if they signed him or even Mrazek for a 1A/1B type thing.
Maybe we could get Mrazek on a good deal to be with his countryman Hertl.
I agree there was a few guys to sign as UFAs that would probably provide the same short term effect as Hill, but it would be nice to find a 25 year old above average starter.
Also not true. Per Natural Stattrick, Merzlikins has 19.05 GSAA over the past two seasons and Hill has 5.61. Hill has played basically half of the minutes of Merzlikins so if you double it for comparison sake it would be 19.05 to 11.22. Only issue with Merzlikins is age and contract.
Yes, someone elaborate! What happened to JTR?
He's a data scientist that worked on improving prospect projection and in particular in improving "NHLe". NHLe works by comparing players success in various leagues and making relationships between them to ultimately project the chance to become an NHLer. He's also improved it to project the chance to breakout as a star.
Also worked on improving the WAR model (wins above replacement).
But don't take my word for it, check out his pinned post on his Twitter: https://twitter.com/TopDownHockey
His detailed breakdown of the models can be found here: Patrick Bacon – Medium
He's a minor internet hockey advanced stat celebrity now.
Hey, it's farther than any of the rest of us have gone talking about hockey
Patrick’s work has been featured on major channels, and I think he’s done radio stuff as well. I think it’s pretty legit stuff at this point as far as public analytics goes
Why?Of course I would whine about that because it's a terrible trade.
Really think Mrazek is DW's guy if they money and term is right. He hits all of the goalie analytics that DW mentioned in the Hill presser re: HDSV% and stuff. Granted I would be weary about the injuries and extrapolating performance behind a good Carolina D to the Sharks, but he's comfortable in a tandem and has had success. Get him in at like 2 years $3 million a year and I would be happy with that tandem going into the season.I’ve been a big Ullmark fan since he was a rookie. My friend from upstate NY that got me into hockey was a sabres fans, so I’ve seen a lot of him. Would be happy if they signed him or even Mrazek for a 1A/1B type thing.
Maybe we could get Mrazek on a good deal to be with his countryman Hertl.
I agree there was a few guys to sign as UFAs that would probably provide the same short term effect as Hill, but it would be nice to find a 25 year old above average starter.