Proposal: Seth Jones for M. Marner

[Leaf Fans]

That's a fair assessment.

I should mention for defenceman Chara, Hedmen, and Keith are mega starts in my opinion.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

Yeah John Tavares and Auston Matthews were nothing until Mitch Marner came along

Either way good on them for milking much more money out of the leafs than any comparable players did with their teams

You do realize that when you say that you are inferring that Mitch isnt anything without JT or AM.

Kind of forgetting him being the MVP and winning at every level on his way to the big show.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You do realize that when you say that you are inferring that Mitch isnt anything without JT or AM.

Kind of forgetting him being the MVP and winning at every level on his way to the big show.

In Marner's last year in the OHL with London he basically won every award possible and was the main reason for London winning the OHL championship and Memorial Cup.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

You do realize that when you say that you are inferring that Mitch isnt anything without JT or AM.

Kind of forgetting him being the MVP and winning at every level on his way to the big show.

We all know what he is and what he is is not worth a 5 million dollar #1D in his prime, especially at his contract.

 

[Leaf Fans]

We all know what he is and what he is is not worth a 5 million dollar #1D in his prime, especially at his contract.

If you know who he is, why all the nonsense?

 

[Kuznetsnow]

Because he keeps being put into proposals for better players on better contracts

 

[Leaf Fans]

Because he keeps being put into proposals for better players on better contracts

Name one.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

Name one.

Seth Jones

 

[Leaf Fans]

Seth Jones

Nice player, but not a better player.

 

[TBF1972]

I feel like Jones value is in the ballpark of
(Not in any particular order but including contracts)
Draisaitl
Larkin
Pasternak
Mathews
scheifele
Petersson
Rantanen

Doesn't have the value of MacKinnon or Barkov because of contracts.

Do we have to find the player, who doesn't fit on that list?

 

[Kuznetsnow]

Nice player, but not a better player.

Lol.

If you want to be generous you can say they're equal, but one makes half of what the other does. You could have Seth Jones and an impact top 6 W like David Perron for less than is paid to Marner

 

[Leaf Fans]

Lol.

If you want to be generous you can say they're equal, but one makes half of what the other does. You could have Seth Jones and an impact top 6 W like David Perron for less than is paid to Marner

I don't have to be generous, but yeah Seth Jones has a lower Cap hit than Marner.

 

[Dotter]

TML don't have the pieces to land Jones.

 

[Leaf Fans]

TML don't have the pieces to land Jones.

Sure they do. The question is whether they are interested or if The Jackets are interested and do they wish to spend the pieces.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Not the worst TML fan offer. Saying that ask yourself would you rather have all star winger or all star defensemen if talent was equal. Answer is the d-man 100 out of 100.

 

[OKR]

I’d pick Jones even if they were both free agents, but with the conctracts they got it’s Jones easily, top 10 defender (at worst) with 5,4million cap his is far more valuable than top 10 winger with 10,8million deal. Toronto would absolutely not say no, they’d get better defensively by aqcuiring Jones and they could sign 2 scoring wingers with the remaining cap space.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Not the worst TML fan offer. Saying that ask yourself would you rather have all star winger or all star defensemen if talent was equal. Answer is the d-man 100 out of 100.

It depends on team needs. I think Toronto would prefer the defenceman. Columbus might too, but they might see an all star winger as a key cog in their offense with PLD, Atkinson and Anderson, or similar teams with similar strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Atomos2]

San Jose was really good last year, in large part because they were able to roll Burns and Karlsson every other pairing. This year they've primarily been sunk by atrocious goaltending and not getting much scoring from their forwards. So I don't think they're proof it doesn't apply.

Besides, I'm not entirely sure how adding two decent top four D instead of adding Jones while losing Marner to acquire them makes the Leafs better. You'd have the same issues you just brought up while at the same time having, say, Manson and Dillon on the roster instead of Jones.

Like I said, it adds more depth and flexibility. You'll be able to roll out different pairs with a greater chance of finding chemistry and more options. There will be less pressure on them as well. I'd much rather have a strong defence by committee rather than just burning out a star defender and expecting him to change the entire mold of the defence. The warts will still be there. Giving up the vast number of rush chances in 2 on 1's . The ill timed turnovers by forwards or defence causing the defence to scramble and requiring the goalie to come up big. Jones isn't going to just magically change that.

Plus, the two things you mentioned about San Jose this year could easily end up being problems with the Leafs if this trade was made. Losing one of their top scoring offensive forward that runs their pp and drives each line he is on could cause problems in scoring. And the atrocious goaltending could still be there as Andersen has been inconsistent and the Leafs have no backup goaltender.

 

[Spade]

Patrick Kane and Alex Ovechkin are the only wingers who have won the Stanley Cup in the cap era while having an arguable case to be considered their team's best player.

Kane had a top center in Toews on another line 2 of 3 Cups and a top 3 defenseman in Duncan Keith. Ovechkin had 2 number 1 centers.

There were way more teams that won the Cup whose best players were either clearly defensemen or clearly a center/defenseman combo without a top 5 winger. This includes Anaheim (Pronger/Niedermayer), Detroit (Lidstrom/Datsyuk/Zetterberg), Pittsburgh (Crosby/Malkin/Letang), Boston (Chara/Bergeron), Los Angeles (Kopitar/Doughty), and St. Louis (Pietrangelo/O'Reilly). The best winger among those teams listed at the time of their Cup(s)? 39 year old Selanne, Franzen, Kunitz, Lucic/Horton, Dustin Brown, 33 year old Marian Gaborik, Kessel/20- year old Guentzel, and Tarasenko.

Take it from a fan of a team who can only seem to build around 90 point wingers, finding a top 10, Right Handed defenseman is literally impossible and the teams that have them win a hell of a lot more consistently. All players have scoring streaks because offense is partly predicated on opportunity (a.k.a. luck). Playing good defense every day only requires excellent work ethic and hockey sense, if you have that you will be a great defensive player every game and consistency is what builds championship teams. Most players miss one or the other.

Jones is huge, with a big wingspan, and an excellent, arguably elite skater. That alone gives him a massive reach advantage because guys like him and Hedman take up half the zone (ANY zone) on their own with their length. His scoring comes and goes like all offensively talented guys (and especially defensemen) but he's a lock for 40+ points a year and can easily put up ~60 in a good year like a Hedman, Doughty, Chara or Pietrangelo to go along with their elite defense. Those guys are unicorns and basically ensure a real shot at the Cup every year for well built or balanced teams. And none of them are scoring like a Carlson or Karlsson or even a Rielly, because they don't need to in order to win every shift.

10/14 Cup winners in the Cap era had a top 10 defenseman or 2, and if we're extending to top 15 or 20 that rises to 12. Only 7 had a top 10 winger either as the centerpiece or as part of the core around other talented players at center or defense, and more importantly only 1 of those teams' best wingers made more than $7.5 million on the cap (Ovechkin 2018). That matters to me if I'm trying to build a winning team.

Marner is a great player. Jones is arguably just as good. Both are in the prime of their careers at their respective positions. One makes twice as much as the other while playing on average 7 less minutes a game. Teams have proven that you can win without an elite winger more consistently than without stud defensemen. Those factors are the kind of razor thin edge that pushes the defenseman over the winger in terms of leaguewide value. If Marner is worth a hypothetical 100% contract included, and he is, Jones is worth 105-110%. It's not a huge difference but all included I think most teams would choose Jones over Marner if they were to start from scratch with no other players to influence team need. No hyperbole, no exaggeration to prove a point, I just slightly prefer Jones for the above reasons.

 

[Kegs]

Nylander is not overpaid at $6.9 million AAV. This season he's already matched his career high of 22 goals scored and is well on his way to scoring at least 30 goals.

That’s such a leaf fan bias comment. He is definitely over paid. He makes more then Pasternak, McKinnon, landeskog, kardri, huberdeau, barkov, Oshie, Marchand, Tom Wilson the list goes on. I’d take every single player I mentioned over him. He is 100% over paid. His agent played hardball. Leafs gm gave in. I woulda kept his contract buried for ever if I was leafs gm. He doesn’t really matter to the leafs. If he was gone they would still be an offensive juggernaut and they would have almost 7 mil in salary cap space to sign either a back up goalie or a d

 

[shortfuze]

This is a rip off for Columbus. Nobody wants that contract ...

Wrong

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I used to be a proponent of trading Werenski for Marner. Maybe even Werenski and a small +. Now, I wouldn't even do that. And I love Marner.

There's only like 5-6 players in the world I would trade Jones for. Marner isn't one of them.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I used to be a proponent of trading Werenski for Marner. Maybe even Werenski and a small +. Now, I wouldn't even do that. And I love Marner.

There's only like 5-6 players in the world I would trade Jones for. Marner isn't one of them.

If were a GM Marner is one of the few players I would trade Jones for.

 

[duffy9748]

There aren’t a ton of players I could see Toronto moving Marner for 1 for 1, but Seth Jones is definitely one of them.

 

[Jerkbait]

I used to be a proponent of trading Werenski for Marner. Maybe even Werenski and a small +. Now, I wouldn't even do that. And I love Marner.

There's only like 5-6 players in the world I would trade Jones for. Marner isn't one of them.

And the leafs brass think the same about marner...especially being younger and when your team is built around him. There has been a lot of talk about $$$ and in the real world this plays into it but eventually they will be close . The kid lead the team in scoring with 94 points! Was on pace for 100 this year. He is the real deal.