Sergei Makarov vs Peter Stastny

[connellc]

Which is these players had...

Career
Peak
better overall player (starting a team with)

Click to read more...

 

[JackSlater]

Makarov for all three.

 

[Thenameless]

Would Makarov have been the second highest scorer of the 80's in the NHL?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Would Makarov have been the second highest scorer of the 80's in the NHL?

Probably. He was the highest scorer of the 80s Soviet league by a very wide margin.

 

[sr edler]

The only thing Stastny has on Makarov is that he plays a "more important position". But you still have to factor in the player itself, because all centers aren't the same and all wingers aren't the same.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Effectively the Nordiques were built around Peter Stastny.

 

[ForsbergForever]

I'm going to go with Stastny. In a scenario where Makarov comes to the NHL in 1980, I just don't see him putting up seven 100+ point seasons. The NHL in the 80s was a very physical league for starters and I'm not sure how Makarov would have handled that. I would like to know just how tall he was though as I've seen Makarov listed at anywhere from 5'9 to 5'11. Of course it would also depend what team he played for and if he had a center even half as talented as Stastny.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I'm going to go with Stastny. In a scenario where Makarov comes to the NHL in 1980, I just don't see him putting up seven 100+ point seasons. The NHL in the 80s was a very physical league for starters and I'm not sure how Makarov would have handled that. I would like to know just how tall he was though as I've seen Makarov listed at anywhere from 5'9 to 5'11. Of course it would also depend what team he played for and if he had a center even half as talented as Stastny.

"Half as talented as Stastny" kind of describes Igor Larionov, no?

 

[ForsbergForever]

"Half as talented as Stastny" kind of describes Igor Larionov, no?

So in the comparative scenario this thread is predicated on, are we transporting Makarov to the NHL in 1980 along with Larionov and Krutov or are we dumping him on a random team like say the Colorado Rockies where he would have been responsible for the majority of the offensive, much like Stastny on the Nords...

 

[Batis]

I'm going to go with Stastny. In a scenario where Makarov comes to the NHL in 1980, I just don't see him putting up seven 100+ point seasons. The NHL in the 80s was a very physical league for starters and I'm not sure how Makarov would have handled that. I would like to know just how tall he was though as I've seen Makarov listed at anywhere from 5'9 to 5'11. Of course it would also depend what team he played for and if he had a center even half as talented as Stastny.

Makarov was exceptionally strong for his size and according to Gary Roberts he was built like a fire hydrant. Considering that players like Potvin, Robinson and Bourque consistently had big problems when it comes to separating prime Makarov from the puck in international competition I also doubt that he would have had much trouble in the NHL.

Here is the Gary Roberts quote.

“People would always say to me, ‘Who’s the toughest guy in the NHL to get the puck away from?’ and I’d answer, ‘Jaromir Jagr.’ But the other guy was Sergei. Sergei wasn’t a tall guy, but remember how thick he was? He’d play keep-away with us in practice and you couldn’t lift his stick up because he was built like a fire hydrant. He protected the puck as well as anyone in the NHL ever has.
“He taught us about puck control and he made us all much better players.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...er-of-puck-possession-hockey/article32834409/

 

[Sentinel]

"Half as talented as Stastny" kind of describes Igor Larionov, no?

That's the biggest snub of Igor I've ever seen. What did he ever do to you?

 

[Sentinel]

Makarov for all three.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Makarov for all three.

He was pretty good, dah?

 

[Sentinel]

He was pretty good, dah?

Naturlich javol.

Btw, i made this video

 

[Batis]

We had a Makarov vs Stastny discussion in this thread http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/are-two-czechs-better-than-any-soviet-player-ever.2424101 back in december. Part of the reason why I would choose Makarov for all 3 categories here is explained in this post from that thread.

Considering that when Makarov and Stastny played on the same continent as each other Makarov was a better player than Stastny both before and after the 80/81-88/89 time frame I don't see why it is so hard to believe that he would have been superior during that time frame as well.

Makarov had already achieved more success in the European game at age 21 than Stastny had at age 23 after his last season in Europe (79/80). Here is a comparison of their voting records up until that point for example.

Domestic player of the year voting (Soviet player of the year for Makarov and Czechoslovak golden stick for Stastny)

Makarov: 1, 4*, 9
Stastny: 1, 6, 12, 12, 15

* Since the SPOTY poll was not conducted in 78/79 due to Mikhailov winning the Izvestia golden stick voting I used Makarovs result in that voting instead since the entire top 6 were Soviets.

Izvestia golden stick voting (Best player in Europe)

Makarov: 1, 4
Stastny: 8

Other main achievements

Makarov: 1x Soviet league scoring champion 2x First team Soviet All-Star, 1x Directorate Best Forward Award at WHC, 1x First Team All-Star at WHC, 1x Leading goal-scorer at WHC
Stastny: Would most likely have been selected to the Czechoslovak All-Star team had it been selected in 79/80.

So even if Stastny had the age advantage Makarov managed to achieve far more in the European game before Stastnys move in 80/81. Then from 89/90 this is how Makarov and Stastny compares when playing in the same league. This time it is Makarov who has the age advantage but on the other hand he also has to adjust to a new culture at an advanced age for doing that.

89/90-94/95

Makarov (age 31-36) 420 gp, 134 g, 250 a, 384 pts, 0.914 PPG
Stastny (age 33-38) 302 gp, 94 g, 159 a, 253 pts, 0.838 PPG

Their PPG:s are relatively close but Makarov sustained it over a far larger sample of games. So since Makarov was the stronger player both before and after the 80/81-88/89 time frame why is it so difficult to believe that he was superior during that time frame as well?

 

[VMBM]

I would like to know just how tall he was though as I've seen Makarov listed at anywhere from 5'9 to 5'11.

In the Finnish hockey book Suuri jääkiekkoteos 3 (in a recap of the 1982 World Championship in Finland) he is listed at 173 centimeters, that's about 5 foot 8 inches. There is absolutely no way he was 5'11" or even near it; Larionov was clearly taller (usually listed at 5'9" but in reality maybe slightly more than that) and I think Krutov at his peak might have been an inch taller too.

These couple of fotos of KLM give some idea:
Google Image Result for https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ca/ee/5a/caee5add7ae809dce461bde7c3b82435--hockey-stuff-ice-hockey.jpg (Makarov on the left)
Google Image Result for https://i.pinimg.com/236x/ae/eb/d7/aeebd7c98acf06dfabba47c834528c82--red-army-the-s.jpg (Makarov in the middle)

As for OP's question, it's a no contest; Makarov all the way. He was about two years younger but he was considerably better in 1979-80 when both were playing in Europe. Stastny certainly had the size over Makarov and might have been better suited for the NHL, but I think Makarov showed as a 30+ year old that he can play in any league and any situation.

Which one would have recorded more points in the NHL in the 1980s, that depends a little on the surroundings (what team, what linemates etc), but if they are the same, then definitely Makarov.

 

[VMBM]

That's the biggest snub of Igor I've ever seen. What did he ever do to you?

Yeah, I'm not the greatest Larionov fan in the world either, but that was a bit harsh.

 

[Batis]

In the Finnish hockey book Suuri jääkiekkoteos 3 (in a recap of the 1982 World Championship in Finland) he is listed at 173 centimeters, that's about 5 foot 8 inches. There is absolutely no way he was 5'11" or even near it; Larionov was clearly taller (usually listed at 5'9" but in reality maybe slightly more than that) and I think Krutov at his peak might have been an inch taller too.

These couple of fotos of KLM give some idea:
Google Image Result for https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ca/ee/5a/caee5add7ae809dce461bde7c3b82435--hockey-stuff-ice-hockey.jpg (Makarov on the left)
Google Image Result for https://i.pinimg.com/236x/ae/eb/d7/aeebd7c98acf06dfabba47c834528c82--red-army-the-s.jpg (Makarov in the middle)

Yes 173 centimeters or 5-foot-8 seems far more accurate than anything in the 5'9 - 5'11 range. In Toronto Stars write-up ahead of the 1981 Canada Cup Makarov is also listed at 5-foot-8.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Makarov for all three.

Wow.....thanks for posting Sentinel. For a guy that knew a little bit about Makarov but not a ton.....that was a pleasure watching that.....I'd describe Makarov as smooth as silk, shifty, outstanding hands....he was undressing guys out there (figuratively of course..haha). Of course I'll have to look up a Peter Statsny tribute....but it seems like a shame that NHL fans couldn't get to have Makarov play in our league because of the Iron Curtain still being up

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Well, for the sake of argument, let's say Makarov comes to the NHL a decade earlier, the same year as Stastny joins the NHL in 80-81, & let's keep Makarov on the Flames:

their top line that year:
Kent Nilsson - 80-49-82-131 (3rd in scoring)
Guy Chouinard - 52-31-52-83
Willi Plett - 78-38-30-68-239

with a couple of skilled puck-moving defenders
Paul Reinhart 74-18-49-67
Pekka-ake Rautakallio 76-11-45-56

slotting Makarov into the top line that year:
Nilsson-Chouinard-Makarov -or-
Plett-Nilsson-Makarov

Nilsson was really flying that year, what if he had Makarov playing the right side?

Stastny was 77-39-70-109 that year, picking up the Calder. Stastny put up these numbers with linemates Jacques Richard & brother Anton.

From this position, I'm thinking Makarov has the ability to outscore Stastny & pick up the Calder. History could've been quite different for the Flames in the 80s: would they trade for Lanny McDonald if Makarov is there? Do they knock out the Canucks in 82 & run to the Finals?

 

[Khomutov]

Well, for the sake of argument, let's say Makarov comes to the NHL a decade earlier, the same year as Stastny joins the NHL in 80-81, & let's keep Makarov on the Flames:

their top line that year:
Kent Nilsson - 80-49-82-131 (3rd in scoring)
Guy Chouinard - 52-31-52-83
Willi Plett - 78-38-30-68-239

with a couple of skilled puck-moving defenders
Paul Reinhart 74-18-49-67
Pekka-ake Rautakallio 76-11-45-56

slotting Makarov into the top line that year:
Nilsson-Chouinard-Makarov -or-
Plett-Nilsson-Makarov

Nilsson was really flying that year, what if he had Makarov playing the right side?

Stastny was 77-39-70-109 that year, picking up the Calder. Stastny put up these numbers with linemates Jacques Richard & brother Anton.

From this position, I'm thinking Makarov has the ability to outscore Stastny & pick up the Calder. History could've been quite different for the Flames in the 80s: would they trade for Lanny McDonald if Makarov is there? Do they knock out the Canucks in 82 & run to the Finals?

It's a very interesting scenario. I think in the NHL Makarov could be a more selfish player than in the CSKA system. Also the NHL in the 80s was all about offense. With his talent he would hit 150 points at least once, i think.

 

[Bustedprospect]

I'm going to go with Stastny. In a scenario where Makarov comes to the NHL in 1980, I just don't see him putting up seven 100+ point seasons. The NHL in the 80s was a very physical league for starters and I'm not sure how Makarov would have handled that. I would like to know just how tall he was though as I've seen Makarov listed at anywhere from 5'9 to 5'11. Of course it would also depend what team he played for and if he had a center even half as talented as Stastny.

Agreed on this. Statsny was strong as a friggin Ox and much better suited to the NHL. The league was particularly tough against foreigners and Makarow wouldn't have lasted over a decade.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Agreed on this. Statsny was strong as a friggin Ox and much better suited to the NHL. The league was particularly tough against foreigners and Makarow wouldn't have lasted over a decade.

BS. There were a lot of finesse players who made it in that era, including a number of Europeans - maybe you just missed my post above about Kent Nilsson scoring 131 points in 80-81. Nilsson had Willi Plett riding shotgun just like Gretzky had Semenko. A lot of European players survived & thrived in the NHL at the time. A few had trouble adjusting to the North American game, but most didn't.

 

[Bustedprospect]

BS. There were a lot of finesse players who made it in that era, including a number of Europeans - maybe you just missed my post above about Kent Nilsson scoring 131 points in 80-81. Nilsson had Willi Plett riding shotgun just like Gretzky had Semenko. A lot of European players survived & thrived in the NHL at the time. A few had trouble adjusting to the North American game, but most didn't.

Kent is huge compared to Makarov and would totally dwarf him in size as well.

 

[VMBM]

Kent is huge compared to Makarov and would totally dwarf him in size as well.

Mats Näslund? Håkan Loob?

Small guys, and neither on the same level with Makarov. And is there any evidence of Makarov being troubled by 'tough play'?