Sergei Fedorov (1993-94) vs Alexander Ovechkin (2007-08) vs Jaromir Jagr (1998-99)

Which season is the best?


  • Total voters
    63

Felidae

Registered User
Sep 30, 2016
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Which is the greatest European season by a forward of all time? Also, who were the linemates for each player?

Inspired by this thread
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/fedorov-1993-1994-vs-malkin-2011-2012.2516189/

This was intended for the Poll section.

Sergei Fedorov

1993-94 Stats
GAA 3.14 PP Opportunities 4.85


Season
GP 84 G 56 A 64 P 120, 39 EV goals, 42 EV assists


Finishes

Goals
1.Pavel Bure* • VAN60
2.Brett Hull* • STL57
3.Sergei Fedorov* • DET56
4.Dave Andreychuk* • TOR53
5.Ray Sheppard • DET52
Brendan Shanahan* • STL52
Adam Graves • NYR52
8.Mike Modano* • DAL50
Cam Neely* • BOS50
10.Wendel Clark • TOR46
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Points
1.Wayne Gretzky* • LAK130
2.Sergei Fedorov* • DET120
3.Adam Oates* • BOS112
4.Doug Gilmour* • TOR111
5.Jeremy Roenick • CHI107
Mark Recchi* • PHI107
Pavel Bure* • VAN107
8.Brendan Shanahan* • STL102
9.Dave Andreychuk* • TOR99
Jaromir Jagr • PIT99
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Trophy case
Pearson
Selke

Hart voting
31 1st place votes, 23 1st place votes went to other players


Team Statistics
27 points over 2nd highest scoring player on team (Ray Sheppard, presumably linemate?)




Alexander Ovechkin

2007-08 stats
GAA 2.61 PPO 4.28

Season
GP 82 G 65 A 47 P 112, 43 EV goals, 32 EV assists

Finishes

Goals
1.Alex Ovechkin • WSH65
2.Ilya Kovalchuk • ATL52
3.Jarome Iginla • CGY50
4.Evgeni Malkin • PIT47
5.Brad Boyes • STL43
Henrik Zetterberg • DET43
7.Marian Gaborik • MIN42
8.Dany Heatley • OTT41
9.Daniel Alfredsson • OTT40
Vincent Lecavalier • TBL40
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Points
.Alex Ovechkin • WSH112
2.Evgeni Malkin • PIT106
3.Jarome Iginla • CGY98
4.Pavel Datsyuk • DET97
5.Joe Thornton • SJS96
6.Henrik Zetterberg • DET92
Jason Spezza • OTT92
Vincent Lecavalier • TBL92
9.Daniel Alfredsson • OTT89
10.Ilya Kovalchuk • ATL87
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Trophy case
Pearson
Rocket Richard


Hart voting
Ovechkin, 128 1st place votes, 6 1st place votes went to other players.

Team Statistics
43 more points than 2nd highest scoring teammate (Backstrom)
39 more goals than 2nd highest teammate
27 more EV goals than 2nd highest teammate




Jaromir Jagr

1998-99 stats
GAA 2.56 PPO 4.38


Season
GP 84 G 44 A 83 P 127, 33 EV goals, 49 EV assists


Finishes

Points
1.Jaromir Jagr • PIT127
2.Teemu Selanne* • MDA107
3.Paul Kariya* • MDA101
4.Peter Forsberg* • COL97
5.Joe Sakic* • COL96
6.Alexei Yashin • OTT94
7.Theoren Fleury • 2TM93
Eric Lindros* • PHI93
9.John LeClair • PHI90
10.Pavol Demitra • STL89
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Goals
1.Teemu Selanne* • MDA47
2.Tony Amonte • CHI44
Jaromir Jagr • PIT44
Alexei Yashin • OTT44
5.John LeClair • PHI43
6.Joe Sakic* • COL41
7.Theoren Fleury • 2TM40
Eric Lindros* • PHI40
Miroslav Satan • BUF40
10.Luc Robitaille* • LAK39
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Trophy case
Art Ross
Pearson

Hart voting
51 1st place votes, only 5 1st place votes went to other players


Team Statistics
44 more points than 2nd highest scoring teammate (Straka)
35 more assists than 2nd highest teammate
 
Last edited:

The Panther

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Mar 25, 2014
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Which is the greatest European season by a forward of all time? Also, who were the linemates for each player?
What happened to Kurri in '85-'87, Selanne in '93, '97-'99, Hasek in '94 to '99, etc.?

Anyway, of the three you mentioned, I think I'm gonna go with Jagr in 1998-99. There weren't really any other stars on that team, and he won the scoring title by 20 points at the height of the DPE. He led the NHL in assists and could certainly have led in goals if he had been a less well-rounded offensive player (he was only off by 3). He wasn't playing for a powerhouse -- just an average team, really, where a hugely talented player (Alex Kovalev) put up 46 points. He was just at his peak, physically.
 

Laineux

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Aug 1, 2011
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Just recently Malkin's 11/12 is arguably more impressive than anything here. It certainly has an argument over Ovechkin's 07-08 - lower scoring year with less powerplays and pace of 119 points - and 109 actual points.

Malkin had the highest gap out of all Ross winners over #10 in points per game since Lemieux.
 

bobholly39

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
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Just recently Malkin's 11/12 is arguably more impressive than anything here. It certainly has an argument over Ovechkin's 07-08 - lower scoring year with less powerplays and pace of 119 points - and 109 actual points.

Malkin had the highest gap out of all Ross winners over #10 in points per game since Lemieux.

Jagr in 1999 had a 38 point gap.
Malkin in 2012 had a 31 point gap. (over 10th place).

Jagr .48 PPG over 10th place
Malkin .46 PPG over 10th place

So not quite.

Also - Malkin in 2012 benefits from the same weaker field that Crosby had in 2014 imo. If Crosby had been active in 2012, he likely has a much smaller gap at top (if even Crosby doesn't surpass him, which is very possible). Same idea when looking at Crosby's dominance in 2014 - if Malkin had been active, his gap at top is much lower. Of course this has more to do with the gap over 2nd place, vs 10th place.
 

Laineux

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Aug 1, 2011
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Jagr in 1999 had a 38 point gap.
Malkin in 2012 had a 31 point gap. (over 10th place).

Jagr .48 PPG over 10th place
Malkin .46 PPG over 10th place

So not quite.
Percentually, which is the mathematically better way to compare them:

Malkin (1.45/.99) = 46.5%
Jagr (1.57/1.09) = 44%

Their gaps over the #20 are 69% and 54% in the favour of Jagr, so better top competition in 98/99 actually seems like a valid point.
 

bobholly39

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
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Percentually, which is the mathematically better way to compare them:

Malkin (1.45/.99) = 46.5%
Jagr (1.57/1.09) = 44%

Their gaps over the #20 are 69% and 54% in the favour of Jagr, so better top competition in 98/99 actually seems like a valid point.

There's also the fact that:

in 2011 Sedin won the Ross with 104 points. (Crosby likely blows past that though minus injury, with a higher # than 104 but also 109)
in 2013 St-Louis had 60 points in 48 games (~103 over 82 games - Crosby again likely blows past that)
in 2014 Crosby had 104 points
in 2010 Sedin had 112 points, Crosby/Ovi 109 points.

Point is - a lot of others approached the 109 points mark in surrounding years.

in 1999 Jagr had 127 points, 2nd place had 107.
2 years later in 2001 Jagr again hits 121, Sakic 118, no one else above 96
in 2000 no one hits above 100 (Jagr would have - 96 points in 63 games only)
in 1998 - Jagr 102, Forsberg 91 2nd place
in 1997 Lemieux 122, Selanne 109. No one else above 100

127 points in 1999 stands out as way more dominant than 109 points in 2012 if you look at how much points top scorers were scoring in surrounding seasons.
 

Sentinel

Registered User
May 26, 2009
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1. Fedorov. There is more to life than offensive stats. Boy, was there more in his his case!

2. Ovechkin. Goals, goals, goals. When nobody believed it was possible. Plus physical presence and charisma.

3. Jagr. Superb offensive dynamo but little else. I'm not dissing Jagr, but I prefer the other two.
 

Troubadour

Registered User
Feb 23, 2018
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1. Fedorov. There is more to life than offensive stats. Boy, was there more in his his case!

2. Ovechkin. Goals, goals, goals. When nobody believed it was possible. Plus physical presence and charisma.

3. Jagr. Superb offensive dynamo but little else. I'm not dissing Jagr, but I prefer the other two.

I like that someone put Fedorov first, as he was always gonna suffer within this comparison.

OP, Jagr could not have possibly played 84 RS games in 98/99, and of the 82 he could play, he actually played 81, just saying. Fedorov played 82.

Percentually, which is the mathematically better way to compare them:

Malkin (1.45/.99) = 46.5%
Jagr (1.57/1.09) = 44%

Their gaps over the #20 are 69% and 54% in the favour of Jagr, so better top competition in 98/99 actually seems like a valid point.

Well, why number ten and twenty? It seems just haphazard and silly to base anything upon. Why not nine and twelve?

---

And to answer the question. Yagrrr. Top ten point distribution looks remarkably similar between 98/99 and 07/08, so basically, Jagr beats Ovechkin by 15 points. Yeah, goals. Tell Yagrrr he can only get the Hart when scoring over sixty, voila.
 

Laineux

Registered User
Aug 1, 2011
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Well, why number ten and twenty? It seems just haphazard and silly to base anything upon. Why not nine and twelve?
It is just to remove the effect of outliers - the 2nd or 3rd best scorer in the league can be an outlier, but it's hard to see how the 20th best scorer in the league would be an outlier, otherwise he wouldn't just be the 20th best scorer.

And as for the specific number, you can do the comparison with any number you feel is sufficient for the purpose.
 
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TheDevilMadeMe

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Didn't someone (@quoipourquoi? ) show that Jagr got an unusually high number of secondary assists in 1998-99 compared to surrounding seasons? Also, Jagr saw an insane amount of ice time that year in a way that Fedorov and Ovechkin really didn't in their best seasons. Takes a bit of the luster off Jagr's season, which would otherwise look to be #1 at first glance.
 

daver

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Just recently Malkin's 11/12 is arguably more impressive than anything here. It certainly has an argument over Ovechkin's 07-08 - lower scoring year with less powerplays and pace of 119 points - and 109 actual points.

Malkin had the highest gap out of all Ross winners over #10 in points per game since Lemieux.

I agree. I think this season deserves to be there too.
 

Felidae

Registered User
Sep 30, 2016
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Just recently Malkin's 11/12 is arguably more impressive than anything here. It certainly has an argument over Ovechkin's 07-08 - lower scoring year with less powerplays and pace of 119 points - and 109 actual points.

Malkin had the highest gap out of all Ross winners over #10 in points per game since Lemieux.

I would have if he wasn't decisively losing a poll to Fedorov's season atm.
 

bobholly39

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
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Didn't someone (@quoipourquoi? ) show that Jagr got an unusually high number of secondary assists in 1998-99 compared to surrounding seasons? Also, Jagr saw an insane amount of ice time that year in a way that Fedorov and Ovechkin really didn't in their best seasons. Takes a bit of the luster off Jagr's season, which would otherwise look to be #1 at first glance.

I hate ice time comparisons personally

If Jagr was good enough to get more ice time - good enough for him.
 

bobholly39

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
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It's not that Fedorov wasn't "good enough" to get more ice time. But in the Wings system that was simply not possible.

Thats fine but dont penalize Jagr for it is what i mean

If he produced more its better.
 

quoipourquoi

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Jan 26, 2009
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Didn't someone (@quoipourquoi? ) show that Jagr got an unusually high number of secondary assists in 1998-99 compared to surrounding seasons? Also, Jagr saw an insane amount of ice time that year in a way that Fedorov and Ovechkin really didn't in their best seasons. Takes a bit of the luster off Jagr's season, which would otherwise look to be #1 at first glance.

Jagr’s 352 more ES/PP minutes than the #2 scorer was a bigger gap than the one between the league-leading forward (Kovalev) and Jagr the following year when Jagr missed 19 games.

In terms of Goals+Primary Assists, he still led the league, but the gap closed to just one point.
 

Big Phil

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Nov 2, 2003
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I picked Jagr.........Ovechkin.......Fedorov. No offense to any of them. But wake me up when there is a season as good as Jagr in 1999. There hasn't been since, well, 1999. Crosby in 2011 might have had it without the injuries and McDavid still might but give me Jagr in 1999. He was doing that heavy lifting all on his own. He was still in beast mode back then. Still was able to hold onto the puck like it was tied to his stick. Still impossible to knock off the puck and still was doing those inside outside moves to deke a defender. Scored a lot of eye popping goals that year too.

I give Ovechkin 2nd because he just hit another level of goal scoring that we haven't seen since and probably hadn't seen since perhaps Mario, maybe? Plus he was still hitting as hard as a rock then (still is of course) and he was more of a bull in a china shop then too. Plus, 65 goals is 65 goals. When two players are the only one to hit 60 in over 20 years there is usually a reason.

Fedorov is 3rd. I don't know, someone has to be. Incredible season too. The fact that he didn't win the scoring title is offset - and then some - by the fact he won the Selke. Great season. He had a better team than the other two and a bit of a boost that way but he did step it up when Yzerman missed about 25 games.
 

Sadekuuro

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Also, Jagr saw an insane amount of ice time that year in a way that Fedorov and Ovechkin really didn't in their best seasons.

Isn't 28 minutes/game the approximate figure bandied about for Feds in '94? I don't have the exact numbers, but he was definitely getting huge ice time, particularly during the 26 games Yzerman missed.
 

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