TSN: Seravalli: Flames trying to get a right-shot winger

Tkachuk Norris

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Jun 22, 2012
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Where is the value in Bennett? Over the past 4 seasons he has gone for 26 pts, 27 pts, 12pts (19pts over 82 pace) and 4 pts (15 over 82 pace). In that same time frame he is a -35. Yes he has some grit and has had some decent playoff scoring (0.6 pts/gm) but his regular seasons have been very underwhelming. A middle of the round 2nd is a 40% chance at an NHLer. Bennett is also old enough that he is what he is he is not that high potential prospect teams look for. If I'm the Ducks and we have Rakell signed through next season as well, I'm in no hurry to move him for Bennett and a 2nd. If he can't get a 1st or a much better prospect, the Ducks need to keep him until the off season when the expansion draft has happened and teams are looking to improve or add something they lost in the Ex draft.

bennett is a playoff performer. He plays with grit and can lead the forecheck. GMs value that.
 

Boondock

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bennett is a playoff performer. He plays with grit and can lead the forecheck. GMs value that.
Sure they do, if they are paid appropriately, are playing their best and aren't the main piece coming back in a trade for a top 6 winger signed for another season at a very reasonable contract. Bennett and a 2nd would be a complete fail for Anaheim. Bennett is a cap dump meant to help balance salary in a deal for Rakell. The value in the trade has to be the piece other than Bennett.
 

Double Dion

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Sure they do, if they are paid appropriately, are playing their best and aren't the main piece coming back in a trade for a top 6 winger signed for another season at a very reasonable contract. Bennett and a 2nd would be a complete fail for Anaheim. Bennett is a cap dump meant to help balance salary in a deal for Rakell. The value in the trade has to be the piece other than Bennett.
I can agree with what you're saying. I'm just not dealing an unprotected 1st if I'm the Flames. I don't think this team is a Rakell away from contention unless Sutter really improves our overall game.
 

blankall

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Where is the value in Bennett? Over the past 4 seasons he has gone for 26 pts, 27 pts, 12pts (19pts over 82 pace) and 4 pts (15 over 82 pace). In that same time frame he is a -35. Yes he has some grit and has had some decent playoff scoring (0.6 pts/gm) but his regular seasons have been very underwhelming. A middle of the round 2nd is a 40% chance at an NHLer. Bennett is also old enough that he is what he is he is not that high potential prospect teams look for. If I'm the Ducks and we have Rakell signed through next season as well, I'm in no hurry to move him for Bennett and a 2nd. If he can't get a 1st or a much better prospect, the Ducks need to keep him until the off season when the expansion draft has happened and teams are looking to improve or add something they lost in the Ex draft.

13 points in 15 playoff games. That alone will add value. Not saying Bennett has a ton of value, but he clearly has some. There's a reason why every fan base is putting up janky trade proposals to acquire him.
 

Boondock

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I can agree with what you're saying. I'm just not dealing an unprotected 1st if I'm the Flames. I don't think this team is a Rakell away from contention unless Sutter really improves our overall game.
I totally agree. My post was based solely on the Bennett + 2nd for Rakell and that just seems light to me.
 

DFF

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13 points in 15 playoff games. That alone will add value. Not saying Bennett has a ton of value, but he clearly has some. There's a reason why every fan base is putting up janky trade proposals to acquire him.

yes, good playoffs performance is the only remaining reason he has some value

on the other hand, his performance this season is waiver material

maybe, Sutter can change that
 

Boondock

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13 points in 15 playoff games. That alone will add value. Not saying Bennett has a ton of value, but he clearly has some. There's a reason why every fan base is putting up janky trade proposals to acquire him.
notice none of those trade proposals are for legit top 6 forwards. Its only Flames fans that think he carries anywhere close to that kind of value. And its 19 pts in 30 playoff games. If Bennett had the value to be the main piece for a Rakell he wouldn't be playing 11 mins a night or a healthy scratch.
 

Double Dion

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notice none of those trade proposals are for legit top 6 forwards. Its only Flames fans that think he carries anywhere close to that kind of value. And its 19 pts in 30 playoff games. If Bennett had the value to be the main piece for a Rakell he wouldn't be playing 11 mins a night or a healthy scratch.
Bennett's value depends on who you are. Is Blake Coleman worth 2 1st round picks? In a vacuum he's certainly not, but that's what Tampa paid for him. Bennett would be a good add for a team like Tampa who is a playoff shoo-in, but need some jam and punch during a playoff run. Vegas or Colorado would make sense to me. I think people will be surprised what Bennett returns. It's not going to be a Coleman return, but it won't be a 4th round pick or fringe NHL vet like some think either. I think he'll command a high 2nd rounder or equivalent value.
 

belair

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Bennett's value depends on who you are. Is Blake Coleman worth 2 1st round picks? In a vacuum he's certainly not, but that's what Tampa paid for him. Bennett would be a good add for a team like Tampa who is a playoff shoo-in, but need some jam and punch during a playoff run. Vegas or Colorado would make sense to me. I think people will be surprised what Bennett returns. It's not going to be a Coleman return, but it won't be a 4th round pick or fringe NHL vet like some think either. I think he'll command a high 2nd rounder or equivalent value.
This is literally apples and oranges.

Coleman was a high volume shooter with back-to-back 20 goal seasons, playing throughout the lineup of a bottom feeder team. He was a high end puck retriever on a sweetheart deal with an additional year of term.

I don't need to tell you what Bennett is again, but it's none of that.
 

Double Dion

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This is literally apples and oranges.

Coleman was a high volume shooter with back-to-back 20 goal seasons, playing throughout the lineup of a bottom feeder team. He was a high end puck retriever on a sweetheart deal with an additional year of term.

I don't need to tell you what Bennett is again, but it's none of that.
Coleman played 1st line minutes for a bottom feeder. It's simply not true that he was playing throughout the lineup. He was on the PP. Bennett is even better than Coleman at the bolded. Look at his hits in the playoffs last year. He was almost double any other player in the league through the 1st round.

The truth is Tampa didn't care about his 20 goals in the regular season. They didn't care about his shot volume. They cared about the jam and playoff style they thought he could help them with. They were looking for someone who could get them over the hump after disappointing post seasons playing against teams like Columbus and Washington.

On top of which they paid 2 1st round picks. I'm saying Bennett is worth 1 high 2nd round pick. In other words 1/4 the value given up for Coleman. I'd be willing to bet anything that if Bennett is moved this year he will return at least that.
 

User1996

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I haven’t opened the Seravalli link, so there could be conflicting information from what my read of the situation is. But I feel like it should be said seeing some of the players brought up in here that:

1. The Flames prefer the C depth of having Lindholm/Monahan/Backlund down the middle. Obviously that leaves a huge hole at RW with Gaudreau and Monahan.
2. Between Leivo, Ryan, Simon, Ritchie, Nordstrom, Gawdin, etc. The Flames have more than enough bottom 6 RHS RW options.

So respectfully, putting these two pieces together, I don’t think Treliving is looking for your teams bottom 6 winger. I think he’s looking to fill that hole with Gaudreau and Monahan so Lindholm can slot in at C.
 

belair

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Coleman played 1st line minutes for a bottom feeder. It's simply not true that he was playing throughout the lineup. He was on the PP. Bennett is even better than Coleman at the bolded. Look at his hits in the playoffs last year. He was almost double any other player in the league through the 1st round.

The truth is Tampa didn't care about his 20 goals in the regular season. They didn't care about his shot volume. They cared about the jam and playoff style they thought he could help them with. They were looking for someone who could get them over the hump after disappointing post seasons playing against teams like Columbus and Washington.

On top of which they paid 2 1st round picks. I'm saying Bennett is worth 1 high 2nd round pick. In other words 1/4 the value given up for Coleman. I'd be willing to bet anything that if Bennett is moved this year he will return at least that.
Hall was playing the first line minutes in NJ for much of that time. Look at Coleman's zone starts. He had a heavy defensive role in NJ and he was high-end in terms of shot production and in terms of forcing turnovers.

Bennett is closer to the waiver wire than he is to bringing Calgary a high pick. His production is that of a fourth liner. Doesn't kill penalties and isn't trusted to play pivot. Has a $2.5m QO to boot. Nothing about him is comparable to Coleman.
 

Boondock

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Bennett's value depends on who you are. Is Blake Coleman worth 2 1st round picks? In a vacuum he's certainly not, but that's what Tampa paid for him. Bennett would be a good add for a team like Tampa who is a playoff shoo-in, but need some jam and punch during a playoff run. Vegas or Colorado would make sense to me. I think people will be surprised what Bennett returns. It's not going to be a Coleman return, but it won't be a 4th round pick or fringe NHL vet like some think either. I think he'll command a high 2nd rounder or equivalent value.
One of those guys was traded after scoring 20+ over 2 consecutive season, plays very good defensive hockey with lots of PK time. Has more take aways than give aways and was signed for an additional season at $1.8. The other has trended downwards the past 2 season, has never scored 20 goals, doesn't kill penalties, has more give aways than take aways and is an upcoming RFA with a $2.55 qualifying offer and has been moved down the line up on his own team including being healthy scratched. You aren't exactly comparing like players or situations.
 

Double Dion

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Hall was playing the first line minutes in NJ for much of that time. Look at Coleman's zone starts. He had a heavy defensive role in NJ and he was high-end in terms of shot production and in terms of forcing turnovers.

Bennett is closer to the waiver wire than he is to bringing Calgary a high pick. His production is that of a fourth liner. Doesn't kill penalties and isn't trusted to play pivot. Has a $2.5m QO to boot. Nothing about him is comparable to Coleman.
Bennett's playoff performance alone is worth a 2nd round pick at minimum. The Oilers were asking that for a player who couldn't crack the shallowest lineup in the league. Bennett has been a playoff beast and still has plenty of upside. According to Friedman 20 teams showed interest in him. But you're right, he's waiver fodder.
 

Boondock

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Coleman played 1st line minutes for a bottom feeder. It's simply not true that he was playing throughout the lineup. He was on the PP. Bennett is even better than Coleman at the bolded. Look at his hits in the playoffs last year. He was almost double any other player in the league through the 1st round.

The truth is Tampa didn't care about his 20 goals in the regular season. They didn't care about his shot volume. They cared about the jam and playoff style they thought he could help them with. They were looking for someone who could get them over the hump after disappointing post seasons playing against teams like Columbus and Washington.

On top of which they paid 2 1st round picks. I'm saying Bennett is worth 1 high 2nd round pick. In other words 1/4 the value given up for Coleman. I'd be willing to bet anything that if Bennett is moved this year he will return at least that.
i'll take that bet - high 2nd being top 10 in the round.
 

belair

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Bennett's playoff performance alone is worth a 2nd round pick at minimum. The Oilers were asking that for a player who couldn't crack the shallowest lineup in the league. Bennett has been a playoff beast and still has plenty of upside. According to Friedman 20 teams showed interest in him. But you're right, he's waiver fodder.
Judging by this and your post about McDavid being a cherry picker, it's pretty easy to come to the conclusion that you aren't great in terms of player valuation.
 

Boondock

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Bennett's playoff performance alone is worth a 2nd round pick at minimum. The Oilers were asking that for a player who couldn't crack the shallowest lineup in the league. Bennett has been a playoff beast and still has plenty of upside. According to Friedman 20 teams showed interest in him. But you're right, he's waiver fodder.
According to me all 20 didn't think he was worth even close to what the ask was. He requested a trade and still no one traded for him. I'm sure you know better, I've read a few of your takes. Bennett is some work horse and McDavid is useless. I will keep this in mind when judging the merits of your player evaluation.
 

TheReelChuckFletcher

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I think that Bennett for Geekie and McGinn would be an interesting swap to make for both Carolina and Calgary. Geekie's a right-handed center/winger that's blocked from the NHL by Jordan Staal and Jesper Fast, but fully deserves a spot in someone's lineup. McGinn would also significantly improve the Flames' terrible bottom-6.
 

CraigsList

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I think that Bennett for Geekie and McGinn would be an interesting swap to make for both Carolina and Calgary. Geekie's a right-handed center/winger that's blocked from the NHL by Jordan Staal and Jesper Fast, but fully deserves a spot in someone's lineup. McGinn would also significantly improve the Flames' terrible bottom-6.

I dig this. To match contracts, we’ll send over Simon too as TS depth for you guys.
 

Double Dion

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Judging by this and your post about McDavid being a cherry picker, it's pretty easy to come to the conclusion that you aren't great in terms of player valuation.
McDavid is a cherry picker. I'm not even sure how that could be up for debate. He had 97 points in 62 games last year and was a -6. They have to put RNH on his wing so he's not a minus player. It's not even an opinion, it's a fact. He has surrendered more high danger chances than any forward in the league so far this season and surrendered the 2nd most in the league last year behind Draisaitl.
 

Double Dion

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According to me all 20 didn't think he was worth even close to what the ask was. He requested a trade and still no one traded for him. I'm sure you know better, I've read a few of your takes. Bennett is some work horse and McDavid is useless. I will keep this in mind when judging the merits of your player evaluation.
I never said this. I said McDavid is a cherry picker. He is a cherry picker. I've also said he's the most talented player in the league. The Oilers will never win until McDavid stops being a cherry picker. Draisaitl has progressed defensively this year. McDavid is just as brutal as ever in his own end.
 

Boondock

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I think that Bennett for Geekie and McGinn would be an interesting swap to make for both Carolina and Calgary. Geekie's a right-handed center/winger that's blocked from the NHL by Jordan Staal and Jesper Fast, but fully deserves a spot in someone's lineup. McGinn would also significantly improve the Flames' terrible bottom-6.
If that was on the table, the Flames would be stupid not to take Geekie IMO. I see Geekie as a 3rd line c/RW that could move up and down the line if needed. He might need to bulk up a bit but I like Geekie.
 

Nanuuk

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Sutter said today, and he's always felt this way, the you win championships through strength down the middle and your defensive corps (including goalies).

With Bennett, the Flames have 5 Centres for a play-off run should they get that far. Lindholm, Monahan, Backlund, Ryan, Bennett. Do they sufficient strength down the middle? We will see. Sutter did not speak about whether he thought the current group of C's is strong enough.

If they do trade Bennett I think he'd be part of a package deal to bring back a right shot RW that could also play centre if called upon.
 

Static

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Bennett's playoff performance alone is worth a 2nd round pick at minimum. The Oilers were asking that for a player who couldn't crack the shallowest lineup in the league. Bennett has been a playoff beast and still has plenty of upside. According to Friedman 20 teams showed interest in him. But you're right, he's waiver fodder.
A 15 game sample size doesn't guarantee anything.
 

belair

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McDavid is a cherry picker. I'm not even sure how that could be up for debate. He had 97 points in 62 games last year and was a -6. They have to put RNH on his wing so he's not a minus player. It's not even an opinion, it's a fact. He has surrendered more high danger chances than any forward in the league so far this season and surrendered the 2nd most in the league last year behind Draisaitl.
McDavid's +/- is heavily impacted by SH and EN goals against considering the fact he's out there for essentially 100% of the time in those situations. He's a consistent outscorer at 5v5. If he wasn't, the coach would have some questions to answer.

Connor McDavid doesn't have to be a cherry picker. His ability to accelerate at an all-world level and maneuver with the puck at high speeds makes him the most dangerous individual player in the league to defend against.

A cherry-picker would cheat offensively, McDavid would never have to.
 
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