Post-Game Talk: Sens vs Stars March 22nd 2014

[MtRundle]

1 season can make a huge difference. We are not going to see the same Cowen, Ceci or Karlsson next year. Wiercioch may even start to show up more.

Ceci sure, Wiercioch- coach doesn't even give him a chance, Cowen..... you think he gets better? I think what you see is what you get for Cowen/ Gryba, the tools aren't there.

 

[John Holmes*]

Tell me there would be no political and fan fallout from Phillips going to another team...

This fanbase really needs to grow up. I thought that Alfredsson walking would have been enough of a wakeup call, but apparently I was wrong.

First time for everything.

Phillips is absolutely finished. We are going to watch him flounder around for two more seasons for sentimental reasons?

Sports is cyclical by nature. Guys flame out at various stages. Look at a guy like Peter Schaefer. He was freaking awesome for about 2 1/2 seasons, then he started to suck.

It happens. It used to be that 30-31 was "old" for a hockey player. A 36 year old losing his game is actually the reality more often than it isn't.

The Alfie's Selanne's and March Recchi's are few and far between.

Philloops should just retire and save himself the embarassment of playing pylon for the next two seasons.

 

[Vaclav Varada]

Game re-cap in a GIF:

 

[Larionov]

Seriously, the only saving grace to me is the fact that the RedBlacks start up soon, so I at least have that to look forward to. God, this is humiliating.

For whatever reason, nothing is going for this team. So many guys are slumping or having off years. In this second half of the year, you have seen Zibanejad, Ryan and Turris dry right up. Cowen is struggling, and so too are Phillips and Methot. Our goaltending has been spotty at best, and downright poor many nights. Basically, anything that could have gone sour has, in fact, gone sour.

We are still young in many places, and have some great emerging talent. A few tweaks and a new deck of cards, so to speak, is what we need.

 

[StefanW]

Well that was fun.

When the game started I was still caught up in Orleans. I was grabbing a quick bite and the place I was in had their TV turned on to curling. It was a match between a couple of European teams. I didn't even bother asking them to change it to the Sens game.

 

[aragorn]

Seriously, the only saving grace to me is the fact that the RedBlacks start up soon, so I at least have that to look forward to. God, this is humiliating.

For whatever reason, nothing is going for this team. So many guys are slumping or having off years. In this second half of the year, you have seen Zibanejad, Ryan and Turris dry right up. Cowen is struggling, and so too are Phillips and Methot. Our goaltending has been spotty at best, and downright poor many nights. Basically, anything that could have gone sour has, in fact, gone sour.

We are still young in many places, and have some great emerging talent. A few tweaks and a new deck of cards, so to speak, is what we need.

You think watching the REDBLACKS is going to be any better in their first yr in the CFL? I've got season tickets to them as well but I expect them to be even worse than these Sens to watch ... btw Aoski Wa Wa!

 

[Vaclav Varada]

You think watching the REDBLACKS is going to be any better in their first yr in the CFL? I've got season tickets to them as well but I expect them to be even worse than these Sens to watch ... btw Aoski Wa Wa!

At least the RBs are expected to suck.

 

[YOW]

Well I have completely reset my expectations for this team. It is what it is.

The mini rebuild re-stocked our Binghampton cupboards but most of the core of our team will be or is to old to realistically be a part of a cup run.
Gone:
Methot,Phillips,Spezza,Mac,Anderson etc.

Left:
Lehner,Ceci,Karlsson, Cowen

Hemsky and Ryan will leave

Now I may have missed some because I am doing this quickly but:

This team need to pay to keep to the floor cap but otherwise needs to ride some of the rest of the dogs right to the bottom of the standings and get some really good draft picks for the next couple of years so the core of the team is approx the same age then make a run for it.
Teams are cyclical and the age difference between our vets and up and coming players is too great.
Look at PITT and CHI as examples.
As a fan I am starting to get sick of being fooled by management by doing just good enough to get into the playoffs .
I don't hate Spezza or Phillips or Ryan but let's call it- we need to start stockpiling more young talent and current NHL players that will get us to where we need to be in 5 years.

 

[King Karlsson]

Well I have completely reset my expectations for this team. It is what it is.

The mini rebuild re-stocked our Binghampton cupboards but most of the core of our team will be or is to old to realistically be a part of a cup run.
Gone:
Methot,Phillips,Spezza,Mac,Anderson etc.

Left:
Lehner,Ceci,Karlsson, Cowen

Hemsky and Ryan will leave

Now I may have missed some because I am doing this quickly but:

This team need to pay to keep to the floor cap but otherwise needs to ride some of the rest of the dogs right to the bottom of the standings and get some really good draft picks for the next couple of years so the core of the team is approx the same age then make a run for it.
Teams are cyclical and the age difference between our vets and up and coming players is too great.
Look at PITT and CHI as examples.
As a fan I am starting to get sick of being fooled by management by doing just good enough to get into the playoffs .
I don't hate Spezza or Phillips or Ryan but let's call it- we need to start stockpiling more young talent and current NHL players that will get us to where we need to be in 5 years.

Why exactly is Mac gone? And Methot? The only big players that could likely leave are Hemsky, Spezz, and Ryan

 

[CanadianHockey]

Then fire him.

Get rid of Murray. Signing Phillips is inexcusable.

I agree that signing Phillips was a mistake at that cap hit.

I'm willing to give Murray this offseason to add a competent, top-4 defender. Karlsson can play with Methot, Ceci can play with the addition, and Phillips gets reduced to 10 mins per night.

I think a big part of the problem, too, is the Gryba-Cowen pairing, especially the Gryba-Cowen-Condra-Smith PK unit. Those guys try to play physical at the expense of positioning, and it burns us way too often.

MacLean could get Laviolette'd though. i.e. a bad season and a terrible start to the next one costs you your job.

Possibly. It'll be interesting to see if MacLean and Murray share a similar view on this team's problems. If Murray thinks the D are competent and being misused, MacLean may be on the hot seat. If both realize the team's D is young, making mistakes, and that Phillips is, at best, an intangible asset, then MacLean may get a pass for the defensive mediocrity.

 

[YOW]

Why exactly is Mac gone? And Methot? The only big players that could likely leave are Hemsky, Spezz, and Ryan

True, but both will be 34 in 5 years and I am not convinced that they will burn their prime years playing for a rebuilding club. Sure, we need to pay to keep to the cap floor but lets say the window to win is 5 years from 5 years from now. They will both be 39.
By then hopefully we'll have another 26-29 year old wunderkid forward and defenseman to replace them.
That's my theory for what it's not worth.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Wow...guess this was a good one to miss. Tried to stay up for it, but drifted off to sleep less than 15 minutes before gametime. doh!

I guess the silver lining is how much this draft sucks. Unless we give Anaheim a top 4 pick, the guy they get will max out as a bottom pairing type player...if he makes it to the NHL at all. Next year, as long as Murray doesn't pull another panic move, will give us a nice prospect.

 

[pepty]

I thought the last couple of game were entertaining. They are not so painful to watch now that the playoffs are out of reach and at least they're trying now.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

I'm down for a tank next season.. But I don't want to lose Mac. Or Hemsky this offseason for that matter. Ryan.. well I wouldn't be crushed if we got assets back for him but it would leave a HUGE hole up front, he isn't an easily replacable guy tbh. So I'm sorta torn on it. We can't really retain all these guys long term if we're going full tank while they go into UFA, unless you can really get them to buy into the 'rebuild with a cheap owner' thing.

 

[Stone Valley]

I hate being right. I predicted 3-1 L

 

[Holdurbreathe]

If Murray doesn't dumb Phillips and add a top 3 defender in the off-season. I want him gone.

As soon as possible.

Rebuild through the draft and develop in house means young players.
Why exactly would Murray abandon the approach simply because of one poor season?
While the D as a group definitely had it struggles, thinking a top 4 D will fix what ailed this team is just wishful thinking.

Spezza, Michalek, Neil, Phillips and Karlsson all had less than stellar years.

Cowen, Conacher and Zibanejad were up and down, which really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Add to this an average year by Anderson and Lehner's struggles, it really isn't surprising this team is where it is.

Also believe the loss of Alfie was huge, the young guys really miss his leadership.

There was no one single thing Murray could do to fix this, look no further than the results after the Hemsky was aquired, one win in 8 games.

The turnovers, lazy penalties and lack of compete are the key reasons this team has struggled to win. These problems aren't specific to the D, they are an indictment of this team.

It is unrealistic to think that adding a D man will make a significant difference until the other obvious issues are resolved.

In fact, listening to Methot, Ryan and MacArthur's comments about effort, there are some deeper issues that need to be dealt with before there are any more additions.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Wow...guess this was a good one to miss. Tried to stay up for it, but drifted off to sleep less than 15 minutes before gametime. doh!

I guess the silver lining is how much this draft sucks. Unless we give Anaheim a top 4 pick, the guy they get will max out as a bottom pairing type player...if he makes it to the NHL at all. Next year, as long as Murray doesn't pull another panic move, will give us a nice prospect.

I don't see the acquisition of Ryan as a panic move at all.

Easy to look back and see the Spezza/Ryan plan didn't work out, but I don't recall too many thinking that would happen when the trade went down.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I don't see the acquisition of Ryan as a panic move at all.

Easy to look back and see the Spezza/Ryan plan didn't work out, but I don't recall too many thinking that would happen when the trade went down.

Panic move as in giving away (high end) draft picks for rentals (not really Hemsky, but he has given away 1st and 2nd rounders for rentals in the past), although making that Ryan deal so quickly after Alfredsson was a bit of a panic move. He had to do something to satisfy the casual fans...but went ahead a bit too fast on that one.

I am very, very worried about management or ownership thinking that we need that one guy to push us into the playoffs next year and our 2015 first rounder is sacrificed for a rental. This is a strange market...two years in a row of (potentially) missing the playoffs might make the Sens do something stupid.

 

[Quo]

Panic move as in giving away (high end) draft picks for rentals (not really Hemsky, but he has given away 1st and 2nd rounders for rentals in the past), although making that Ryan deal so quickly after Alfredsson was a bit of a panic move. He had to do something to satisfy the casual fans...but went ahead a bit too fast on that one.

I am very, very worried about management or ownership thinking that we need that one guy to push us into the playoffs next year and our 2015 first rounder is sacrificed for a rental. This is a strange market...two years in a row of (potentially) missing the playoffs might make the Sens do something stupid.

He had been working on it for days. Maybe he upped the ante once Alfie turned his back but in any case I don't think anyone, especially Murray, expected that we'd have such a poor showing this year and give up such a high pick.

While they may not be one or two pieces away from contention, I expect (hope) the dearth of underachieving players from this year will recover next year. That alone would make a tremendous difference, especially along the blueline. Players play to expectations on a more or less consistent basis and there's no need for a fire sale.

That's the "show of faith" route and ideally it may work. However, IMO there are indications that the Sens problems speak to a general malaise amongst the players. I don't know why this is, sometimes it's just an off year. Those close to the team may have a better bead on who, if any, bring a negative contribution. It could be anyone.