Post-Game Talk: Sens @ Flyers - Nov 19, 2013

[Hale The Villain]

Cowen's never getting benched

Makes Murray look bad for giving him a ridiculous contract.

 

[YNWA14]

Can't wait for Spezza to walk on this team so I can stop seeing every single GDT with complaints about him. Though I'm not looking forward to seeing whoever the scapegoat is that replaces him (probably Karlsson due to possessing pretty much all the same qualities that people ***** about Spezza for).

It's a good thing we didn't play Anderson because everyone knows that the goaltending was the issue and the team just plays way better in front of Lehner anyway.

Thought Karlsson had a great game although he just watched as Timonen walked right up to Lehner (though Lehner let in a very soft goal there).

Spezza was meh. Didn't think he had a great game though he created some real beauty chances, but he didn't have a horrible game either. He puts too much faith in Michalek.

Smith and Boro continue to impress. Both very, very effective and consistently so.

As always though the real bane of the team rests on their defensive zone coverage. Just horrible an awful lot. Needs a shake-up pretty badly and Cowen needs to be benched, called out or moved. I don't really care which at this point.

Pretty deflating to see the team response after the disallowed goal. It was probably the leadership corps fault because I think MacLean was asking Spezza on the bench if he thought it was a goal and Spezza seemed to say "probably not". Terrible show of leadership and support for his teammates.

 

[arglebargle]

Man it's frustrating knowing that Cowen is a huge bust and Murray won't see it until well after every other GM does. It's even more frustrating knowing that they have Wiercioch sitting in the pressbox because they don't want to admit they made a huge mistake giving Cowen that contract.

 

[fringie]

I know we need to make a trade, if that is possible with the well documented budget situation.

But this game alone, Lehner did not play to his standard, the team in front of him for the most part played alright, there are some good chances, and non-call on the Turris goal was the turning point. The team (goalie included) fell apart after that, mentally very fragile team right now, nothing pesky about this at all.

Let's not overreact to Cowen so much, he will be fine in the long term, go through a rough patch right now, if he has a capable veteran D to play with, he will be better.

I can't help but think the possibility of having Del Zotto on this team, it can address both a short and long term need for this team. Don't look now, with him in the lineup, and Ceci coming up, this blueline can still be very very good for years down the road.

 

[God Says No]

You don't get rid of Cowen. But you do sit him. He should be in the same boat as in Wier, Corvo and Gryba. Rotate the guys until someone takes the job and runs with it.

It would be pretty stupid to trade Cowen right now.

 

[Xspyrit]

lol I'm still in 3rd period, Flyers scored to make it 3-2 and Turris is about to go for a penalty shot

The no goal was literally a kick in the ass. Puck luck is nowhere to be seen for the Sens. Game went sour in the minute after. Lehner need to make save

Eve though I' a huge fan, Lehner was horrible tonight and it was easy to see it was going to be a tough game for him right from the start. He seemed shaky all game

At least, some people should understand that both goalies can have good and bad games.

Sens deserved a lot better tonight, the 2 posts on first PP and the no-goal (who was good from what I have seen) might be hard to take for the players. And the other goalie totally outplaying our goalie once again is a trend we can't afford right now

By the way, Sens give up more shots when Lehner is in nets because he gives up way too many rebounds and turns over the puck a lot himself, letting the opposition continue their attack. Robin is not done developing, his potential is great but there's still flaws in his game. We need Andy. lol I say that as it should be clear but unfortunately the debate will still go on for a while

 

[John Holmes*]

You don't get rid of Cowen. But you do sit him. He should be in the same boat as in Wier, Corvo and Gryba. Rotate the guys until someone takes the job and runs with it.

It would be pretty stupid to trade Cowen right now.

It's getting less stupid every day.

 

[arglebargle]

It would be pretty stupid to trade Cowen right now.

Besides the fact that he's big and was drafted early, what have you seen out of Cowen that makes you think he'll ever be any good?

 

[Hale The Villain]

Cowen will improve.

Big lanky defenseman do usually take longer to develop than smaller, bulkier D-men.

His lack of hockey sense will prevent him from ever being a top pairing defenseman, but he could develop into a good top 4 defenseman once he finds his game in the NHL.

 

[DrEasy]

Besides the fact that he's big and was drafted early, what have you seen out of Cowen that makes you think he'll ever be any good?

He has a pretty nice shot.

 

[John Holmes*]

Cowen's problem is his brain.

He just makes poor decision after poor decision. You can't even blame his injury.

He plays brain dead out there.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Besides the fact that he's big and was drafted early, what have you seen out of Cowen that makes you think he'll ever be any good?

He was pretty solid in his rookie year.

I find it hard to believe that Cowen, Gryba, Wiercioch and Phillips have all turned into terrible defensemen with weak breakout passes, when we've watched them for two years now making solid passes out of our zone while playing dependable, mistake free hockey.

I think the lack of the puck possession system we have been playing the past couple years has made these players look worse than they are. Obviously Cowen's brainfarts have been a major problem, but a lot of them are coming off failed passes out of the zone, whereas in the previous couple seasons the puck would find a friendly stick and Cowen wouldn't be in that poor position defensively.

I'd wait on dealing our defensemen (especially Cowen) until MacLean institutes the same puck possession system we saw succeed in 11/12 and 12/13.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

No communication between forwards and defense. On that 3rd goal the forward just releases Timonen and expects the D to cover, the D is already covering someone else giving Timonen an open lane. Just maddening.

The Timonen goal was on Karlsson, he left him wide open to just walk into the crease while Methot covered the over skater to the left of Lehner.

Exactly. This is exactly it. Spezza is an amazing offensive talent but he is below average/average defensively and that would not cut it as the Captain of Ottawa, especially in the pressure of the Media in the city.

I still believe the C may round out Spezza's game better and give him another element in his game to raise him even higher and he is just struggling to find that new role which is understandable.

It was a very peculiar situation. Give the C to someone else and potentially have Spezza unhappy with it and demand a trade ala Heatley or give him the C and be utterly disappointed that he doesn't provide captaincy qualities.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

First round pick

Also I don't get the people crying over the fact that we don't have our first. Is another prospect really what we need? We're not even lottery 5, so the player wouldn't be a complete game changer anyways. Even if he was, we don't need another kid on our team. We need veterans. Established teams like Boston and Chicago have lots more veterans than we do and those are the players that keep the balance of the team intact and tonight was an example of everyone letting go after tying the game up for Christ's sakes.

We are three points out of a lottery position. THREE. 3. We could very well be there by the middle of December. And while no, we don't need another prospect, giving them (Anaheim) a top 5 pick and being OUT of the playoffs isn't going to help keep Ryan here.

Ottawa's rebuild never really got started. They sold off assets during the 2010/2011 and failed to gain the elite talent they needed because they chose to play Anderson in the majority of the final games. The next season Ottawa found a way to make it into the playoffs and had the fifteenth overall selection.

Last year Ottawa has another shot at getting elite talent with the built in excuse of losing all of their star players and instead makes it to the second round of the Stanley Cup playoffs. Now after defying expectations for two straight years a move is made to help this team contend and they are falling a part.

I agree Ottawa doesn't need any more prospects. What they need are impact players to replace guys like Phillips, Spezza, and Michalek. .

People do realize if they want to trade Spezza he has a no trade clause right? That means Spezza calls the shots and Ottawa alienates their current captain while probably getting a limited return from one of the few teams Spezza is willing to go to. Sounds like a great plan for a team on a budget.

Rephrasing because I'm immesnely frustrated. If the team wants to move him they will. They can run him out of town. They can do it the nice way by asking him to waive his NTC and they'll move to a contender or they can get into mud-slinging. Do I want him to move? No, no I don't. I'd much prefer the team grew around Spezza but the team can move him, make no doubt about that.

Can't wait for Spezza to walk on this team so I can stop seeing every single GDT with complaints about him. Though I'm not looking forward to seeing whoever the scapegoat is that replaces him (probably Karlsson due to possessing pretty much all the same qualities that people ***** about Spezza for).

Karlsson hates losing and is a demon out there. I'll take him as my captain any day. You can see the fire in his eyes, how he wants to make the team win. How he won't accept losing.

 

[HavlatMach9]

well i didn't notice, but xspyrit said what some others have mentioned today that Lehner gives up more rebounds which result in more shots.

Karlsson hates losing and is a demon out there. I'll take him as my captain any day. You can see the fire in his eyes, how he wants to make the team win. How he won't accept losing.

people would be on him to when he casually rejoins a play which turns into a chance against. I see Spezza going hard out there, and it's great to see and he'll become a better player and better captain.

 

[YNWA14]

Karlsson hates losing and is a demon out there. I'll take him as my captain any day. You can see the fire in his eyes, how he wants to make the team win. How he won't accept losing.

Sure looked like it on the Timonen goal, or multiple other goals that have been scored against this year in which he's been coasting or just not caring in his own end.

Karlsson is very competitive just like Spezza is. He's creative just like Spezza is. He makes a higher volume of defensive gaffes and gaffes with the puck becuase he's on the ice 10 more minutes a game than Spezza is. Right now Karlsson should thank his lucky stars that he's insulated from blame by Spezza -- or maybe it's just the Spezza double standard.

The worst part is that when Karlsson coughs up the puck it's usually in his own zone and instantly leads to a scoring chance against as opposed to just killing a potential scoring chance of his own.

I love both players for what they are, but the double standard is always fun to watch.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

What did he do?

He stood there shaking his head disappointed and leaned on the bench while everyone was leaving.

Looked like he lost game 7 of the cup, looked like he put the blame on him which shows his maturity as a player.

Man, I love Turris.

 

[ffayyca]

I don't think team in a slump would affect Ryan's decision. He looks like a stand up guy, not someone who bails on adversity. But owner not willing to spend to improve the team will, Murray def knows this.

 

[God Says No]

Besides the fact that he's big and was drafted early, what have you seen out of Cowen that makes you think he'll ever be any good?

Because there are glimpses that he shows from time to time and we haven't seen enough of him to make a final decision. Like I said, he shouldn't be excluded from being scratched, but if we do move him it could come back to haunt us.

 

[Super Cake]

I don't think team in a slump would affect Ryan's decision. He looks like a stand up guy, not someone who bails on adversity. But owner not willing to spend to improve the team will, Murray def knows this.

If the sens let michalek walk, then they can use his money to re-sign ryan.

 

[Xspyrit]

Ottawa's rebuild never really got started. They sold off assets during the 2010/2011 and failed to gain the elite talent they needed because they chose to play Anderson in the majority of the final games. The next season Ottawa found a way to make it into the playoffs and had the fifteenth overall selection.

I stopped there because I'm not really interested in actively participating in this board anymore but that post caught my eyes.

All I have to say :

Jason*Spezza Ottawa(2001)1,2
Kyle*Turris Phoenix(2007)1,3
Mika*Zibanejad Ottawa(2011)1,6
Milan*Michalek San Jose(2003)1,6
Bobby*Ryan Anaheim(2005)1,2
Jared*Cowen Ottawa(2009)1,9
Erik*Karlsson Ottawa(2008)1,15
Chris*Phillips Ottawa(1996)1,1

How many high picks should a team need? And considering we have guys like Lehner (I know he was a 2nd round pick but he easily has a 1st round skillset), Ceci, Wiercioch (2nd but very nice skillset), Lazar, Puempel, etc. Is it really a lack of talent?

IMO, outside of top-3/5 picks (depending on the year), it doesn't really mean as much as people think for the rest of the first round. How many elite talent outside of those top-3/5 picks? Most of the time, teams get better players outside of the top-10 than the 5-10 positions, so to get that "elite talent", you really need to suck and not at the sens level, but way worse.

lol this fanbase wouldn't survive finishing in the bottom-5 for a few years, not even close. One year they drafted 6th and this board was a mess (reflected in attendance), even more than now. This franchise can't afford it because it would probably result in a relocation.

well i didn't notice, but xspyrit said what some others have mentioned today that Lehner gives up more rebounds which result in more shots.

Ah ok good to know, I didn't read any threads since the last game.

Who were the scapegoats tonight?

I thought they played relatively well for the most part but Lehner was bad and some players could have made a difference and didn't, most notably Spezza and Karlsson (but yeah he plays too much, we need a veteran D-man stabilizer so everyone could play in a position where they can succeed at this point in their careers). Greening is disappointing since he plays like a 4th line forechecker and can't seem to do much more. I thought team defense was decent until the no-goal but damn that Lehner was giving up scoring chances by himself and gave up 3 relatively weak goals (for the NHL level).

First goal, juicy rebound on the PK
Second goal, unlucky but can't give up that kind of goal in the NHL
3rd goal, puck went through, usual Lehner wouldn't have let that in
4th goal, again tons of juicy rebounds and puck went through him as he lifted his pad for some reason.

All I have to say I guess outside that it was a heartbreaking loss, see ya

Link for the game-cast :

http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/gamecast?gameId=400484557

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Btw, it`s still wayy too early to blame Spezza or his leadership qualities. Wtf are Phillips and Neil doing?

20 games as captain is such a small sample size.

But regardless of the C he is playing his worst hockey of his career. Spezza and Michalek give up more goals than any other top 6 not named Edmonton. Their puck possession and corsi ratings are at the bottom of the league. Normally Spezza is at the top of the team.

If it's injuries, I wonder how management is gonna pursue this moving forward.

 

[burf]

Cowen's problem is his brain.

He just makes poor decision after poor decision. You can't even blame his injury.

He plays brain dead out there.

Ignoring his occasional boneheaded defensive deficiencies, the WORST thing is how he can't start a play to save his life. He'll be sitting with the puck in the D-zone, with plenty of time to make a decision and get rid of it, and then he'll either completely miss his pass (this happens almost every time he tries to pass it from the D-zone to a forward cutting through the neutral zone) or he'll send it to someone who's well covered, causing a turnover against.

He didn't used to be this bad with the puck, and hell, he was actually looking pretty good in his first few games this year. It's gotta be a confidence issue, which is weird because he seems almost immune to being healthy scratched.

 

[HavlatMach9]

One year they drafted 6th and this board was a mess, even more than now.

It was really only for a few months and before Andy arrived and killed kitties by getting us out of a top 3 pick. I have no idea how the Oilers fan do it, I couldn't stand losing like that for a few months, and I'd prefer mediocrity like the Flames or the Leafs before the last lockout. But that's just me.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Cowen's problem is his brain.

He just makes poor decision after poor decision. You can't even blame his injury.

He plays brain dead out there.

I'm not worried. Normally if a player played good before or shown flashes of great ability and he is still young, it just means he is trying to work things out; to use his toolset alongside his brainset.

Look no further than Zack Smith. This guy was DUMBEST player on the team at the start of season now he looks like a genius beside our stars.