Salary Cap: Sens don't qualify Duclair - Part Deux

Slippy

Registered User
Dec 8, 2005
1,978
413
highlytouted.ca
It wouldn't surprise me if Duclair ends up out of the NHL & plays in Europe or the KHL.

Can't see it. He'll get an NHL deal, but obviously not what he wanted. I would love to hear a candid account of how things go to this point. Still wish Duke nothing but the best. Would have liked to watch him with the Sens, but...
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrEasy

TheDebater

Peace be upon you
Mar 10, 2016
6,251
6,000
Ottawa
Can't see it. He'll get an NHL deal, but obviously not what he wanted. I would love to hear a candid account of how things go to this point. Still wish Duke nothing but the best. Would have liked to watch him with the Sens, but...

Two scenarios:

He sucks it up and takes a very cheap 1 year NHL deal (with any team) to prove he can replicate his stats and that he deserves a bigger contract next year.

Or

He feels bitterness and resentment about how it all played out this off-season and signs a contract in Europe or the KHL because they overpay to entice him. He could definitely make more money playing in the KHL but if money is not the priority then maybe he goes with Option A and sucks it up for another year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aragorn

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
I suppose Mike Hoffman, Sami Vatanen and Travis Hamonic have as well?

Sorry, but what does it have to do with Anthony Duclair, representing himself no less?

Hoffman, Vatanen and Hamonic are pure UFAs, Duclair was RFA... you understand the difference?

Also, very different track records...

When everything is said and done, we'll have a better idea of how much Duclair left on the table by turning down the Sens offer.

It was a really bad business move.
 

bashbros32

Registered User
Jan 12, 2014
1,995
1,723
Brockville, Ontario
Sorry, but what does it have to do with Anthony Duclair, representing himself no less?

Hoffman, Vatanen and Hamonic are pure UFAs, Duclair was RFA... you understand the difference?

Also, very different track records...

When everything is said and done, we'll have a better idea of how much Duclair left on the table by turning down the Sens offer.

It was a really bad business move.

yes sure on his part, however how is it not bad asset management for the sens to let a 25 year old RFA, who, in his year and a half with Ottawa, had a 29 goal, 50 point pace over a full 82 game season, walk away for nothing. Brady Tkachuk (I understand he isn't as streaky, has a longer sample size and offers other things) hasn't put up that point pace yet in his career, and some posters on this forum are talking about him getting 8 mill a season.

Also I do agree it was a horrible business move on his part. I could see him needing to take a deal similar to Galch in order to even play NHL hockey this year, but none of that changes the fact that Ottawa also made a bad business decision in not qualifying him. At least in my opinion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sweatred

bashbros32

Registered User
Jan 12, 2014
1,995
1,723
Brockville, Ontario
yes sure on his part, however how is it not bad asset management for the sens to let a 25 year old RFA, who, in his year and a half with Ottawa, had a 29 goal, 50 point pace over a full 82 game season, walk away for nothing. Brady Tkachuk (I understand he isn't as streaky, has a longer sample size and offers other things) hasn't put up that point pace yet in his career, and some posters on this forum are talking about him getting 8 mill a season.

Also I do agree it was a horrible business move on his part. I could see him needing to take a deal similar to Galch in order to even play NHL hockey this year, but none of that changes the fact that Ottawa also made a bad business decision in not qualifying him. At least in my opinion.

I would like to formally retract my statement on Tkachuk's point pace, I consistently forget that both seasons he has played he has missed 10 games. he has put up 50 point pace with 20+ goals in both his NHL seasons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JD1

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
15,988
9,554
yes sure on his part, however how is it not bad asset management for the sens to let a 25 year old RFA, who, in his year and a half with Ottawa, had a 29 goal, 50 point pace over a full 82 game season, walk away for nothing. Brady Tkachuk (I understand he isn't as streaky, has a longer sample size and offers other things) hasn't put up that point pace yet in his career, and some posters on this forum are talking about him getting 8 mill a season.

Also I do agree it was a horrible business move on his part. I could see him needing to take a deal similar to Galch in order to even play NHL hockey this year, but none of that changes the fact that Ottawa also made a bad business decision in not qualifying him. At least in my opinion.

I think this situation is kinda complicated and you'd really need access to all the information to assess what the team did and whether it was good or bad.

You have to consider money. The covid revenue situation. Where a whack of other deals were at the time in the negotiation.

The market right now is backloading deals. Look at what Tierney, Murray, Dandonov and Brown just got. And that's not unique. Guys are getting backloaded deals everywhere, not just Ottawa.

Now look at Duclair with an arbitration award at 4.

Maybe there's no Dandonov if Duclair gets 4. Maybe we can't land on a deal with Brown or Tierney.

As i said, there were a lot of balls in the air and i think you'd need a lot more info to understand why this happened

On the surface though, ya i can understand the feeling that he should have been qualified
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
yes sure on his part, however how is it not bad asset management for the sens to let a 25 year old RFA, who, in his year and a half with Ottawa, had a 29 goal, 50 point pace over a full 82 game season, walk away for nothing. Brady Tkachuk (I understand he isn't as streaky, has a longer sample size and offers other things) hasn't put up that point pace yet in his career, and some posters on this forum are talking about him getting 8 mill a season.

Also I do agree it was a horrible business move on his part. I could see him needing to take a deal similar to Galch in order to even play NHL hockey this year, but none of that changes the fact that Ottawa also made a bad business decision in not qualifying him. At least in my opinion.

If covid never happened, I would agree and the Sens most likely would have went through arbitration and settle for 1 year even if they didn't like the salary. But since the market has completely changed, there's no way a team was going to pay what Duclair wants

If reports are true (of course it's hard to really know as we don't have access to all the information), Ottawa was offering something like 4.25 x 3 years (and it was probably their highest offer) and Duclair wanted 5.5 x 5 years minimum. So at that point, there's no agreement possible. It was arbitration or nothing

Given Duclair track record, the Sens understandably didn't want to commit long term with Duclair and be stuck with a 5 years contract with an AAV too high if he goes back to his inconsistent ways. There's way too much risk with that kind of player.

Yeah the Sens could have qualified him, go through arbitration and then forced to "overpay" him. Then trade him at the deadline if he has a good season or let him walk for nothing at the end as he would become UFA

There's absolutely no guarantee that a Duclair with a 5.0 AAV would be tradeable this year with all the context. Tyler Johnson who has been a much better player for a while just passed through waivers without any takers

Instead of the headache, the Sens turned around and spent that money (and more) for a significant upgrade in Dadonov.
 

bashbros32

Registered User
Jan 12, 2014
1,995
1,723
Brockville, Ontario
If covid never happened, I would agree and the Sens most likely would have went through arbitration and settle for 1 year even if they didn't like the salary. But since the market has completely changed, there's no way a team was going to pay what Duclair wants

If reports are true (of course it's hard to really know as we don't have access to all the information), Ottawa was offering something like 4.25 x 3 years (and it was probably their highest offer) and Duclair wanted 5.5 x 5 years minimum. So at that point, there's no agreement possible. It was arbitration or nothing

Given Duclair track record, the Sens understandably didn't want to commit long term with Duclair and be stuck with a 5 years contract with an AAV too high if he goes back to his inconsistent ways. There's way too much risk with that kind of player.

Yeah the Sens could have qualified him, go through arbitration and then forced to "overpay" him. Then trade him at the deadline if he has a good season or let him walk for nothing at the end as he would become UFA

There's absolutely no guarantee that a Duclair with a 5.0 AAV would be tradeable this year with all the context. Tyler Johnson who has been a much better player for a while just passed through waivers without any takers

Instead of the headache, the Sens turned around and spent that money (and more) for a significant upgrade in Dadonov.

isn't it true that a player elected arbitration can only award a 1 or 2 year contract? so yes arbitration would have been necessary, however, Tyler Bertuzzi just got awarded 3.5 mill from an arbitrator. I doubt Duclair would have been awarded more than that.
 

Leafmealone11

Registered User
Aug 7, 2020
848
342
isn't it true that a player elected arbitration can only award a 1 or 2 year contract? so yes arbitration would have been necessary, however, Tyler Bertuzzi just got awarded 3.5 mill from an arbitrator. I doubt Duclair would have been awarded more than that.

Bertuzzi should have a legit beef with that ruling. 47 points in 73 last year 48 in 71 this year. He should be over 4 million.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
isn't it true that a player elected arbitration can only award a 1 or 2 year contract? so yes arbitration would have been necessary, however, Tyler Bertuzzi just got awarded 3.5 mill from an arbitrator. I doubt Duclair would have been awarded more than that.

Reality is Duclair was probably untradeable because he is representing himself and his demands were way out of touch with the current NHL market.

Sens offered 3 years x 4.25, which is a pretty generous offer. He turned it down

He wanted 5 years x 5.5, which is ridiculous as his track record doesn't justify anywhere close to that.

So what was possible? Go through arbitration and "force" him to sign 1 year at like 4.0? Then what? He is unhappy and becomes UFA at the end of the season? He wouldn't have much trade value at the deadline anyway, even if he does well. Namestnikov returned a 4th, Ennis returned a 5th... Would you go into a potential big headache for a possible 4th or 5th round pick? (not even a guaranteed considering the market this year, teams having a hard time getting rid of salary, ex : Tyler Johnon waived)

So they decided to go on a different path, took that money and added a bit more to sign Dadonov instead. Then took on another reclamation project but for much cheaper at 1.05 M$

You're right, as an isolated move, letting Duclair go for nothing would be bad, but considering the whole context and the free wallets acquired, it's really a non-issue.
 
Last edited:

Leafmealone11

Registered User
Aug 7, 2020
848
342
yes sure on his part, however how is it not bad asset management for the sens to let a 25 year old RFA, who, in his year and a half with Ottawa, had a 29 goal, 50 point pace over a full 82 game season, walk away for nothing. Brady Tkachuk (I understand he isn't as streaky, has a longer sample size and offers other things) hasn't put up that point pace yet in his career, and some posters on this forum are talking about him getting 8 mill a season.

Also I do agree it was a horrible business move on his part. I could see him needing to take a deal similar to Galch in order to even play NHL hockey this year, but none of that changes the fact that Ottawa also made a bad business decision in not qualifying him. At least in my opinion.

Well they may have tried to move him at the deadline and got zero offers. You never know. It sucks to let a RFA walk but it might not be a bad business decision. Guys that want to sign contracts probably got the message they can't charge extra to stay and play for the crappy franchise. It could help with contracts going forward. If you try to bluff for extra and they call you on it you might lose big.
 

Masked

(Super/star)
Apr 16, 2017
6,339
4,564
Parts unknown
isn't it true that a player elected arbitration can only award a 1 or 2 year contract? so yes arbitration would have been necessary, however, Tyler Bertuzzi just got awarded 3.5 mill from an arbitrator. I doubt Duclair would have been awarded more than that.

The Senators didn't have that information at the time they needed to make a decision on whether or not to qualify him.
 

TheDebater

Peace be upon you
Mar 10, 2016
6,251
6,000
Ottawa
Dorion obviously has a plan and wanted to maximize the money he had available to lock up a forward for more than one year.

Obviously they had a good feeling about Duclair so they offered him a 3 year deal, but when he turned down, it forced them to make a decision: 1 year deal or sign someone else.

If the decision was retain Duclair with a 1 year arbitration contract or sign Dadonov to a 3 year deal...then I think they made the right choice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: robsenz

Karl Eriksson

Boring!
Apr 12, 2007
10,929
5,669
Ottawa
Any news on the status of his discussions with GMs? I would be happy to bring him back tbh. Maybe that well is poisoned now or he’s too proud to come back. I imagine we trade a few guys at the deadline, so another body won’t prevent us from giving kids time in Ottawa this season.
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
15,988
9,554
Any news on the status of his discussions with GMs? I would be happy to bring him back tbh. Maybe that well is poisoned now or he’s too proud to come back. I imagine we trade a few guys at the deadline, so another body won’t prevent us from giving kids time in Ottawa this season.

I figure the last nail in Duclair's Sens career coffin was the Galchenyuk signing
 

TheDebater

Peace be upon you
Mar 10, 2016
6,251
6,000
Ottawa
I figure the last nail in Duclair's Sens career coffin was the Galchenyuk signing

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you on that. In fact, it might end up being a better 1 year gamble than qualifying Duclair if you factor in cost to output ratio.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
Any news on the status of his discussions with GMs? I would be happy to bring him back tbh. Maybe that well is poisoned now or he’s too proud to come back. I imagine we trade a few guys at the deadline, so another body won’t prevent us from giving kids time in Ottawa this season.

Copy/pasting my answer from another thread :

That ship has sailed. The team went out and signed Dadonov (3 years, 5.0) and Galchenyuk (1 year, 1.05)

Money well spent. Apparently, Duclair wanted something like 5.5 x 5 years

Nothing against Duclair, but very bad timing for overpricing yourself. And the fact that he didn't think it was a good idea to have an agent actually blew up in his face.

So glad it worked out that way in the end, I have totally moved on from Duclair. Not only we added Dadonov and Galchenyuk, but there's plenty of talented kids eager to prove themselves.
 

AchtzehnBaby

Global Matador
Mar 28, 2013
15,022
8,903
Hazeldean Road
Why or why not Duclair?

Duke’s defense issues have plagued him ever since he made it in this league, and they have only ever gotten worse since going to the Sens. Part of it isn’t entirely his fault (The Senators are not good), but plenty of teams need defensive help, especially from the forward position. It’s entirely possible that guys like Duke just can’t find the places to land right now because of a need for forwards that can do things that he just can’t.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
28,466
8,995
I wonder how many guys are losing their NHL jobs this yr because of Covid & other insinuating circumstances. Teams seem to be adding & signing more & more guys that are cheaper than thought especially for their bottom six forwards & bottom D pairings. Getting younger usually means getting cheaper too & putting all their money into the top six & top two D pairs rather than expensive players on the bottom six or bottom D pair.
 

Alf Silfversson

Registered User
Jun 8, 2011
5,714
4,740
Why or why not Duclair?

Duke’s defense issues have plagued him ever since he made it in this league, and they have only ever gotten worse since going to the Sens. Part of it isn’t entirely his fault (The Senators are not good), but plenty of teams need defensive help, especially from the forward position. It’s entirely possible that guys like Duke just can’t find the places to land right now because of a need for forwards that can do things that he just can’t.


I think Duclair has just asked for too much money. He's a good player with some great tools who could definitely find a good niche with the right coach (I think DJ was on the right track).

But he's not getting signed for what he's asking. Maybe once Mike Hoffman signs at a reduced rate Duke will understand that he's not getting $3.5-4 M. At which point I'd bet that some team gets a real bargain, signing him for about $2M on a 1-2 year deal.
 

playasRus

Registered User
Mar 21, 2009
9,284
2,015
Maybe we get lucky, he signs 1mil 1 yr with us, and we flip him for a 2nd round pick at the deadline after he scores on pace for 50 pts.
 

AchtzehnBaby

Global Matador
Mar 28, 2013
15,022
8,903
Hazeldean Road
Maybe we get lucky, he signs 1mil 1 yr with us, and we flip him for a 2nd round pick at the deadline after he scores on pace for 50 pts.

I would imagine his last call to the Sens was met with a final offer: "take it or leave it" He left it... and now he gets Pierre's voice mail.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->