Prospect Info: Sens Board Prospect Rankings 2019 (19th)

Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by SensBrawler, Aug 7, 2019.

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Who's #19?

Poll closed Aug 9, 2019.
  1. Olle Alsing

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Michael Carcone

    1.7%
  3. Angus Crookshank

    16.9%
  4. Joey Daccord

    27.1%
  5. Jonathan Gruden

    11.9%
  6. Maxence Guenette

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Mark Kastelic

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Parker Kelly

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Viktor Lodin

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Luke Loheit

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Kevin Mandolese

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. Markus Nurmi

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. Nick Paul

    8.5%
  14. Jonny Tychonick

    22.0%
  15. Max Veronneau

    11.9%
  1. SensBrawler

    SensBrawler Registered User

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    Sens Board Prospect Rankings 2019

    1. Drake Batherson (C/RW) - Belleville Senators (AHL) 48.7%
    2. Erik Brannstrom (D) - Belleville Senators (AHL) 83.5%
    3. Logan Brown (C) - Belleville Senators (AHL) 63.5%
    4. Jacob Bernard-Docker (D) - University of North Dakota (NCAA) 31.8%
    5. Lassi Thomson (D) - Kelowna Rockets (WHL) 49.4%
    6. Josh Norris (C) - University of Michigan (NCAA) 40.5%
    7. Christian Wolanin (D) - Belleville Senators (AHL) 58.3%
    8. Alex Formenton (LW) - London Knights (OHL) 51.4%
    9. Christian Jaros (D) - Ottawa Senators (NHL) 23.9% (Tiebreaker)
    10. Rudolfs Balcers (LW) - Belleville Senators (AHL) 32.8%
    11. Filip Gustavsson (G) - Belleville Senators (AHL) 25.4%
    12. Vitaly Abramov (RW/LW) - Belleville Senators (AHL) 28.2%
    13. Maxime Lajoie (D) - Ottawa Senators (NHL) 32.9%
    14. Jonathan Davidsson (RW) - Djurgardens IF (SHL) 40.0%
    15. Mads Sogaard (G) - Medicine Hat Tigers (WHL) 32.00% (Tiebreaker)
    16. Filip Chlapik (C) - Belleville Senators (AHL) 37.00%
    17. Shane Pinto (C) - Tri City Storm (USHL) 35.2%
    18. Marcus Hogberg (G) - Belleville Senators (AHL) 47.2%

    [​IMG]

    Added Lodin

    Who Should I Add Next?


    Jean-Christophe Beaudin - Belleville Senators (AHL)
    Todd Burgess - RPI (NCAA)
    Andreas Englund - Belleville Senators (AHL)
    Morgan Klimchuk - Belleville Senators (AHL)
    Jakov Novak - Bentley University (NCAA)
    Andrew Sturtz - Belleville Senators (AHL)

    The poll will be open for 24-48 hours.
     
  2. FormentonTheFuture

    FormentonTheFuture Registered User

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    I dunno...went with Gruden.

    Add Englund
     
  3. Caeldan

    Caeldan Whippet Whisperer

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    I feel like Nick Paul should fall inside our top 20 still, so going there.
     
  4. Nac Mac Feegle

    Nac Mac Feegle wee & free

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    Daccord is being criminally underrated.
     
    MelnykOut likes this.
  5. stempniaksen

    stempniaksen Registered User

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    Daccord again. Guy doesn't deserve to fall out of the top 20 given where our other goalies are ranked.

    Add Englund. Seems like the only one left with an outside shot at some (more) NHL games.
     
  6. Grizz MacArthur

    Grizz MacArthur GRIZZ

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    I went with Crookshank ever so slightly ahead of Daccord.

    Add - Novak
     
  7. Micklebot

    Micklebot Moderator

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    I think Paul and Verroneau have a shot at being NHL regulars as early as the end of this season when we ship out all the UFAs.

    Daccord could be ahead of some of the other goalies, as far as I'm concerned they are all nearly interchangeable.

    Crookshank has some of the highest upside of the guys left, and Tychonick should see his value rise as he will likely get a lot more ice time this season.
     
  8. DJB

    DJB #MELNYKOUT

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    Tychonick. So criminally underrated around here.

    Been voting for him since about 13th overall
     
  9. Micklebot

    Micklebot Moderator

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    He's a hard one to get a feel on; Smallish offensive Dman in a league that doesn't typically give ice time to 18 year olds, and came from a league that isn't getting near as much exposure as the CHL or national program in the states. This year he should take a bigger role in North Dakota, and will sink or swim. He could see his reputation skyrocket with a strong season.
     
    NB613 and DJB like this.
  10. Xspyrit

    Xspyrit Registered User

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    This is not the "regular" prospect pool that will find usually. In the 18 guys voted so far, there's 6 quality prospects that have been added because we just went through a major firesale. And it could even farther if you count JBD and Gustavsson after trading Brassard.

    You can't look at it the same way you are used to. Daccord is not criminally underrated, the pool is just that deep/good. But it should be expected when you trade Karlsson, Hoffman, Duchene, Stone and Dzingel in just 1 year.

    well, the 4 goalies shouldn't all be in the top-20. Gustavsson is a bit high if Sogaard is 15th. Daccord and Hogberg are close but Gruden and Crookshank have better chance to be top-9 forwards than these 2 guys than be more than journeymen goalies.
     
  11. Kevin8se7en

    Kevin8se7en ShyGuy

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    How is Nick Paul still a prospect? He was drafted the same year as Curtis Lazar.
     
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  12. Micklebot

    Micklebot Moderator

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    He's 3 days younger than Wolanin and 4 months younger than Hogberg. All these guys are on the tail end and last year they will qualify.
     
    Hale The Villain and NB613 like this.
  13. Nac Mac Feegle

    Nac Mac Feegle wee & free

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    I think we have to be careful about over-rating this pool. We have a lot of lower and mid-tier guys. In terms of legit top-6/top 4 D players...we can count on two players on the list. We have lots of guys who are going to be fill-ins, 2-4 year NHLers and cup of coffee guys in the long run.
     
    Blotto71 likes this.
  14. Xspyrit

    Xspyrit Registered User

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    Disagree. Is anybody voted so far fit that "bill"? I'm sorry, guys like Sogaard are not mid/lower-tier guys. Pinto, Chlapik are 2nd round picks, they have a good skillset/potential, etc.

    Did you notice the point about the firesale? I'll be more explicit so it'll be easier to see.

    1. Drake Batherson : 4th in 2017
    2. Erik Brannstrom : obtained directly for MARK STONE
    3. Logan Brown : 1st in 2016
    4. Jacob Bernard-Docker : from a pick obtained for DERICK BRASSARD
    5. Lassi Thomson : from a pick obtained for MATT DUCHENE
    6. Josh Norris : obtained directly for ERIK KARLSSON
    7. Christian Wolanin : from a pick (4th) obtained for ERIC GRYBA
    8. Alex Formenton : 2nd in 2017
    9. Christian Jaros : 5th in 2015
    10. Rudolfs Balcers : obtained directly for ERIK KARLSSON
    11. Filip Gustavsson : obtained directly for DERICK BRASSARD
    12. Vitaly Abramov : obtained directly for MATT DUCHENE
    13. Maxime Lajoie : 5th in 2016
    14. Jonathan Davidsson : obtained directly for MATT DUCHENE
    15. Mads Sogaard : from a pick (Florida's 2nd + 3rd from Brassard too) obtained for ERIK KARLSSON
    16. Filip Chlapik : 2nd in 2015
    17. Shane Pinto : 2nd in 2019
    18. Marcus Hogberg : 3rd in 2013
    19. Joey Daccord : 7th in 2015
    Angus Crookshank : 5th in 2018
    Jonathan Gruden : 4th in 2018
    Johnny Tychonick : from a pick obtained for DERICK BRASSARD
    Olle Alsing : Signing from Europe
    Nick Paul : obtained directly for JASON SPEZZA
    Max Veronneau : Signing from College
    etc ..............

    So basically, without that rebuild/firesale, you'd be looking at :

    1- Drake Batherson
    2- Logan Brown
    3- Christian Wolanin (Gryba not part of the firesale, just a regular trade of a depth guy)
    4- Alex Formenton
    5- Christian Jaros
    6- Maxime Lajoie
    7- Filip Chlapik
    8- Shane Pinto
    9- Marcus Hogberg
    10- Joey Daccord
    11- Angus Crookshank
    12- Jonathan Gruden
    13- Johnny Tychonick, Olle Alsing, Nick Paul, Max Veronneau, etc

    Now that looks more like an usual prospect pool. So the actual situation is that normal pool PLUS the good prospects obtained from trading Elite/Star players (well, Brassard is an ex star player I guess and we lucked out)

    As for the rest of your comment, also strongly disagree. Mark Stone and Mike Hoffman were supposed to be "fill-ins" early too. Wolanin was ranked 30th in the 2015 pool, behind names that you probably don't even remember already. Tkachuk was supposed to be a grinder according to this board, many didn't believe in White, Karlsson a "garbage" pick, most didn't see Chabot coming, etc, etc.

    There's plenty of guys with top-6 and top-4 potential on the list and 2 goalies with starter potential (IMO). Sure, they won't all make the all-star game but the way you're painting it is true and not something you'd read from credible sources.

    We are going to form a lot of NHLers from that list. Question is who is going to be here to manage them in a few years? Or is Melnyk going to fix his finances and do a mea culpa?
     
  15. dzingelalltheway

    dzingelalltheway Registered User

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    Combining our prospect pool with our graduated prospects in the NHL, yeah, we have good depth and a few intriguing guys who could pan out. But anything beyond that is romanticizing our pool. Nearly every team in the league has a Pinto, a Chlapik, a Norris.
     
  16. FolignoQuantumLeap

    FolignoQuantumLeap Its a trap

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    So we put our faith in what are essentially scratch tickets?

    The thing you're ignoring is guys like Stone, Hoffman and Karlsson actually got to play around some great players as young guys to learn from. We're going to churn out more busts if we continue down this path. There's no insulation and no guys like Alfredsson or Phillips or Gonchar who have been there and done that over and over again to mentor guys. Instead you'll have players who are being nickel and dimed by the team, an out of shape recluse and Jack "Calzone breath" Capuano being the guys who have to show them the ropes.

    The prospects we have are decent. Nothing special besides Batherson, deep but lacking quality. Lots of guys are gonna sink because of the lack of a safety net here and just how bad the situation is on the ice.

    I feel like the return on a lot of investments on prospects here are gonna be pretty lacking because of how little we're investing in our actual roster. Would feel a lot better about it if we had a qualified NHL coach and a guy like Stone or Karlsson as captain.
     
    The Lewler likes this.
  17. Tuna99

    Tuna99 Registered User

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    What Alfie did for EK is well documented, the good of leadership and embracing the city and the bad of the relationship with the owner.

    But your comment about Gonchar, Weircoche only ever looked like an NHL playing beside Gonchar, once Weircoche had to play with other partners he was exposed as a KHL Dman.

    We have guys who can get the puck up the ice and play in front of the net so moving the puck isn’t my worry- the worry is keeping the puck out of the net, DJ Smith has been sold as the heir apparent to NJ Devils style lock it down pursuit hockey, I don’t see our forwards being anywhere close to that impact. Norris will be, but not feeling the pursuit forwards the GM is selling right now. White, Tkachuk, Pageau maybe, if DJ can bring a pressure system and do it well with this roster, he’s a genius
     
  18. The Lewler

    The Lewler GOAT BUDGET AINEC

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    This.

    1000 x.
     
  19. Hale The Villain

    Hale The Villain Registered User

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    Yup. He's also the same age as Veronneau.

    I imagine the same was said about Hoffman the year he went through waivers and lit up the AHL. Paul could still end up being a solid NHLer. Impressed me every time he was called up.
     
  20. Nac Mac Feegle

    Nac Mac Feegle wee & free

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    Without the rebuild/firesale, we have a bottom 10 pool. With the additions, we are just outside the top 10. But....even with a #1 pool, there will still be plenty of busts, washouts, journeymen and cup of coffee players. That's the thing. You can get bottom 6 guys just about anywhere. Same with 3rd pairing guys. We are stacked with depth....the easiest thing to acquire.

    The entire concept of building a good pool of prospects is to focus on the types of guys that are more difficult/valuable to get in trades...the top 6 forwards, top pairing D, stud goalie, etc.
     
  21. Xspyrit

    Xspyrit Registered User

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    I know, 9 days to answer but it's never too late lol! HF is very far in my priority list nowadays

    Please tell me which teams has a Pinto at #17, Chlapik #16 and Norris #6. Pretty much every team would have their last 2nd round pick, picked 32nd overall, in their top-10 and most would have it closer to the top-5. Heck, Sogaard is also a recent high 2nd round pick and was voted #15, that's crazy. Of course, some teams probably have a Norris at #6, but probably some of the better drafting teams. Crookshank and Gruden are voted outside of the top-20, I doubt you can find many teams with that kind of depth. I know the Sens never had anything close to that, even though they had really good pools before.

    Keep in mind that elite/high end drafted high prospects don't stay in a pool very long (see Tkachuk) so maybe some teams currently have a really great top-5 because they had a few high picks in the last 2-3 drafts (Rangers, Avalanche for example) but in terms of overall depth and quality, the Sens pool is among the best.

    The point here is really not to praise Dorion and Melnyk or "romancing" the pool, they have done so much damage already and destroyed a team with a high quality young core (guys like Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, Hoffman, Zibanejad, Dzingel were all under 30 y/o). My point, and I'm probably repeating is that this pool is the result of "extraordinary circumstances", as you can see in post #14, without those circumstances, we'd have a decent little pool that would probably be ~ #15 in the league

    1- Drake Batherson
    2- Logan Brown
    3- Christian Wolanin
    4- Alex Formenton
    5- Christian Jaros
    6- Maxime Lajoie
    7- Filip Chlapik
    8- Shane Pinto
    9- Marcus Hogberg
    10- Joey Daccord
    11- Angus Crookshank
    12- Jonathan Gruden
    13- Johnny Tychonick, Olle Alsing, Nick Paul, Max Veronneau, etc

    But considering the Ottawa Senators just went through a major FIRESALE in 1 calendar year (Derick Brassard trade February 23, 2018 to Mark Stone trade February 25, 2019) we added on top of the "decent little pool" all these extra prospects : Brannstrom, Bernard-Docker, Norris, Thomson, Balcers, Gustavsson, Abramov, Davidsson, Sogaard, Tychonick

    That's probably enough quality to have another top-10 in itself. Now the question is do you like/believe in the potential of these 10 extra prospects?

    What am I ignoring? I haven't talked about the aspects you're talking about at all, I have been strictly talking about these prospects at face value. I never said I was fan of what Dorion or Melnyk have done. I mean, under different ownership, going forward, we could have a core of Karlsson, Chabot, Wolanin, JBD, Jaros, Duchene, Stone, Tkachuk, White, Dzingel, Batherson, Brown, Formenton, Pageau, etc

    All we needed was a financially healthy ownership identifying the core, paying them at competitive market value, trading other aging vets (like Phaneuf, Brassard) and invest in coaching and depth (particularly on defense). Instead, we went into a FULL rebuild.

    That being said, totally disagree about "Nothing special besides Batherson", I mean Erik Brannstrom is highly regarded as a prospect and already was before being traded here. Those 2 guys are elite prospects and top-30 in NHL prospects rankings.

    Some teams like the Rangers (who probably currently have one of the best prospect pools I have ever seen) and the Avs are rich at the moment but having 2 elite prospects is already very good. And after them, many quality prospects who are NHL top-100 or should be considered (Brown, JBD, Thomson, Balcers, Wolanin, Norris). I mean, Sens have (or are close to have) 8 prospects top-100 worthy, that's very very good. And even greater is that there's several guys in the tier below (Gustavsson, Formenton, Abramov, Sogaard, Pinto? Jaros?)

    I'm not saying they have the best overall pool (Rangers, Avs, Detroit, Canes and hate to say it Habs probably have the 5 best right now) but the Sens are in the discussion right after with Canucks, Flyers, Kings... Speaking of Habs, crazy how fast they turned things around the last 2 years, their pools have been very bad for a long while.

    With Chabot, Tkachuk, White already in the NHL on top of the pool and with so many high picks in the next 2 drafts, things are very promising. Melnyk can still screw up everything so there's always that big stress for Sens fans. The relief we need is that he sells the team. But in terms of quality young assets, things are going very well.
     
    Variable26 likes this.

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