Pre-Game Talk: Sens at Devils 12/21/2018 7pm et

[BondraTime]

Tierney has played wing in the past and has 3 fewer points than Dzingel despite playing with inferior line mates. Also, almost every team in the league distributes their talent throughout the lineup. Boucher also switches his lines up a ton, so I dunno... seems like complaining for the sake of it.

Tierny has 4 goals, and it's hard to think of plays where he got assists where he was a driving factor, he's been the biggest recipient of stat padding from the amount of goals we have scored bar none. Even Tkachuk and White who are getting lots of points because of Stone, are making plays almost every game where you say that the are creating things, I don't see that with Tierny, at all.

I would trade him to somebody as soon as JGP gets back, though I know that's not going to happen.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Because I think it hurts more than it helps. Especially how Boucher uses it. You know Pyatt and some other bottom sixer will be playing 5 min. That's how Boucher rolls. So essentially you are playing 9 forwards. On top of that the constant mish mashing of in game lines due to one forward missing, breaks up continuance and flow for the lines. I understood having an additional D to augment the special teams when they were unbalanced (i.e. not enough guys who can PK or PP well). But I don't think that's the case now. So what's the point?

It would be interesting to see what our record is playing 11/7 vs. 12/6. I bet you it's not that good. You don't see anyone else in the league implement this, and I think there is a good reason for that. It doesn't really work.

I’m looking into it...

So, by my calculation, we have gone 12+6 twenty-two times and we've gone 11+7 thirteen times. Our record with 11+7 is much, much better.

12+6 lineup
Overall: 8-12-2
Home: 6-4-2
Road 2-8-0

11+7 lineup
Overall: 7-4-2
Home: 5-1-1
Road: 2-3-1

I did this on hockey-reference, so I had to manually check the numbers. Some might be off? I tried to double and triple check, though.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Tierny has 4 goals, and it's hard to think of plays where he got assists where he was a driving factor, he's been the biggest recipient of stat padding from the amount of goals we have scored bar none. Even Tkachuk and White who are getting lots of points because of Stone, are making plays almost every game where you say that the are creating things, I don't see that with Tierny, at all.

I think a large part of that comes from the fact that he’s done basically nothing in the past 20 games. I don’t think Tierney is awesome or anything close to that, I just don’t see any harm in trying this out. Dzingel has shown he can be productive from the bottom 6 and if Tierney starts producing, that’s great. Worth the try imo.

 

[solidprospect]

I'd prefer Jim O'brien over Pyatt.

Only other thing I can think of is Pyatt leaves us short a penalty killing forward, maybe they'd prefer him killing penalties over a more offensive player but i don't think Pyatt is part of the teams long term plans.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Because I think it hurts more than it helps. Especially how Boucher uses it. You know Pyatt and some other bottom sixer will be playing 5 min. That's how Boucher rolls. So essentially you are playing 9 forwards. On top of that the constant mish mashing of in game lines due to one forward missing, breaks up continuance and flow for the lines. I understood having an additional D to augment the special teams when they were unbalanced (i.e. not enough guys who can PK or PP well). But I don't think that's the case now. So what's the point?

It would be interesting to see what our record is playing 11/7 vs. 12/6. I bet you it's not that good. You don't see anyone else in the league implement this, and I think there is a good reason for that. It doesn't really work.

Actually they mentioned the record with 7/11 in a pregame show about a week ago, and there were more wins than losses with 7/11, but don't remember the actual breakdown.

Yes, other coaches use 7/11 in the league, I posted two links, in a previous post to show that it's just not GB.

So the top 9 forwards get a little more ice time, and two of the bottom three forwards get spotted in and out of the line up, a get less ice time, plus if there's an injured D man, which happens quite a bit, you still have 3 pairs.

So is having your top nine forwards on the ice more often is a bad thing?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I'd prefer Jim O'brien over Pyatt.

Only other thing I can think of is Pyatt leaves us short a penalty killing forward, maybe they'd prefer him killing penalties over a more offensive player but i don't think Pyatt is part of the teams long term plans.

A depth forward trade at the TDL to a contending team.

 

[solidprospect]

A depth forward trade at the TDL to a contending team.

We traded Nick Shore to the Flames last season for a 7th round pick and is now in the KHL, something like that or waivers.

 

[God Says No]

Actually they mentioned the record with 7/11 in a pregame show about a week ago, and there were more wins than losses with 7/11, but don't remember the actual breakdown.

Yes, other coaches use 7/11 in the league, I posted two links, in a previous post to show that it's just not GB.

So the top 9 forwards get a little more ice time, and two of the bottom three forwards get spotted in and out of the line up, a get less ice time, plus if there's an injured D man, which happens quite a bit, you still have 3 pairs.

So is having your top nine forwards on the ice more often is a bad thing?

Oh I'm aware 11/7 has been used in the NHL in the past. It's not a Boucher brain child. But it's not used as often as GB. I'm pretty sure the actual usage by other coaches is very low. Maybe like 5% of the time. That's not GB's percentage. If I had to guess it would be something like 30% of the time, maybe higher. Just a guess though.

Not interested in the actual wins totals, interested in the winning percentage.

Yeah top 9 forwards get to play more which on the surface sounds ok, but the issue is that in the new NHL you need 4 lines. If you look at the successful teams, they have 4 lines that can be deployed at any point. If you are playing 9, you are automatically at a disadvantage.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Oh I'm aware 11/7 has been used in the NHL in the past. It's not a Boucher brain child. But it's not used as often as GB. I'm pretty sure the actual usage by other coaches is very low. Maybe like 5% of the time. That's not GB's percentage. If I had to guess it would be something like 30% of the time, maybe higher. Just a guess though.

Not interested in the actual wins totals, interested in the winning percentage.

Yeah top 9 forwards get to play more which on the surface sounds ok, but the issue is that in the new NHL you need 4 lines. If you look at the successful teams, they have 4 lines that can be deployed at any point. If you are playing 9, you are automatically at a disadvantage.

See my previous reply to you. I edited it to include the info.

 

[Tundraman]

It's a shame Jimmy-O was hurt and lost for so long he reinvented himself into a good regular AHL depth bottom tier NHL call-up. We could have used him when Smith went down. Now there wouldn't be any room especially if Pageau is getting close in the new year. I'm looking forward to having him back. That change alone will improve the lineup

 

[alfie follower]

Oh I'm aware 11/7 has been used in the NHL in the past. It's not a Boucher brain child. But it's not used as often as GB. I'm pretty sure the actual usage by other coaches is very low. Maybe like 5% of the time. That's not GB's percentage. If I had to guess it would be something like 30% of the time, maybe higher. Just a guess though.

Not interested in the actual wins totals, interested in the winning percentage.

Yeah top 9 forwards get to play more which on the surface sounds ok, but the issue is that in the new NHL you need 4 lines. If you look at the successful teams, they have 4 lines that can be deployed at any point. If you are playing 9, you are automatically at a disadvantage.

yeah.... we're not a top team, and it has nothing to with 11-7.. not sure why you're not interested in the win total of 11-7 , as it seems to be the only relevant argument in this so far, that I can see, unless you , and others, enjoy watching us lose with 12-6. Seems quite obvious to me that ANY 4th line , that we currently put out there, will be of no use generally. i'd rather 'sprinkle' 2 weak players in with skill, than float a useless 4th line out there regularly...

 

[God Says No]

See my previous reply to you. I edited it to include the info.

Cool. I was thinking of how this could be done easily and I guess manual way is the only way.

So looks like the 11/7 is working for GB in the small sample size. I still prefer the 12/6 formation. I don't think a regular 11/7 lineup can be sustained in the new NHL. Also looks like he used it 37% of the time, which FAAR from the NHL norm.

 

[God Says No]

yeah.... we're not a top team, and it has nothing to with 11-7.. not sure why you're not interested in the win total of 11-7 , as it seems to be the only relevant argument in this so far, that I can see, unless you , and others, enjoy watching us lose with 12-6. Seems quite obvious to me that ANY 4th line , that we currently put out there, will be of no use generally. i'd rather 'sprinkle' 2 weak players in with skill, than float a useless 4th line out there regularly...

Like I said, I was more interested in the win %, more so than win total.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Tierny has 4 goals, and it's hard to think of plays where he got assists where he was a driving factor, he's been the biggest recipient of stat padding from the amount of goals we have scored bar none. Even Tkachuk and White who are getting lots of points because of Stone, are making plays almost every game where you say that the are creating things, I don't see that with Tierny, at all.

I would trade him to somebody as soon as JGP gets back, though I know that's not going to happen.

I'd argue Boedker has been the biggest recipient of the "invisible secondary assist" on the team, but Tierney is a close second. Really not sure how both are on pace for 50P.

I'd definitely like to keep Pageau over Tierney, but I doubt that happens.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Oh I'm aware 11/7 has been used in the NHL in the past. It's not a Boucher brain child. But it's not used as often as GB. I'm pretty sure the actual usage by other coaches is very low. Maybe like 5% of the time. That's not GB's percentage. If I had to guess it would be something like 30% of the time, maybe higher. Just a guess though.

Not interested in the actual wins totals, interested in the winning percentage.

Yeah top 9 forwards get to play more which on the surface sounds ok, but the issue is that in the new NHL you need 4 lines. If you look at the successful teams, they have 4 lines that can be deployed at any point. If you are playing 9, you are automatically at a disadvantage.

They don't play 9 though, they play all 11 forwards .......... and by you logic, playing 7 Dmen would be an advantage, would it not?

I just think people make WAY to much out of GB playing 7/11, and basically see it as a green light to bash someone they already dislike.


Last Saturday, both Tom Pyatt & Nick Paul played less that 3 mins per period each, when Ottawa played with 12/6 ...... so with 11/7 the 11 dressed forwards need to pick up less than 17 seconds each, per period, to make up for the one missing forward ............ hardly an insurmountable task that it going to put the team at a huge disadvantage as some would make it out to be.

 

[God Says No]

They don't play 9 though, they play all 11 forwards .......... and by you logic, playing 7 Dmen would be an advantage, would it not?

I just think people make WAY to much out of GB playing 7/11, and basically see it as a green light to bash someone they already dislike.


Last Saturday, both Tom Pyatt & Nick Paul played less that 3 mins per period each, when Ottawa played with 12/6 ...... so with 11/7 the 11 dressed forwards need to pick up less than 17 seconds each, per period, to make up for the one missing forward ............ hardly an insurmountable task that it going to put the team at a huge disadvantage as some would make it out to be.

Yeah they play 11 forwards, but my point is that the 2 guys play so little that basically it is like playing with 9. The only advantage of playing 7 D is if you are playing 12 F, because my argument is that having less forwards has a more negative affect that the positive affect of 7 D.

The 17 seconds is if you spread it uniformly, which is not true. GB plays his top horses more. There were numerous instances where the forwards were visibly tired in the third period. It's hard to win against NHL teams, it's harder when you are rolling out 3 lines and they roll 4. 11/7 should not be used as much, and especially on back to back.

 

[branch]

I'd prefer Jim O'brien over Pyatt.

Only other thing I can think of is Pyatt leaves us short a penalty killing forward, maybe they'd prefer him killing penalties over a more offensive player but i don't think Pyatt is part of the teams long term plans.

Yeah he's doing such a good job on the PK right now.

 

[Korpse]

Yeah he's doing such a good job on the PK right now.

Not going to speak for the individual but as a whole, they have done well the past month. Operating at 89% which puts them at 4th in that time span.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Tierney has played wing in the past and has 3 fewer points than Dzingel despite playing with inferior line mates. Also, almost every team in the league distributes their talent throughout the lineup. Boucher also switches his lines up a ton, so I dunno... seems like complaining for the sake of it.

We don’t have much talent to go around. This always happens lol. Our offense dries up “we should just load up our lines”. We start to score “we need to spread this scoring around “

Lol disagreeing with a line adjustment is complaining for the sake of it? It’s quite common discussion in basically every single sport on earth

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Not going to speak for the individual but as a whole, they have done well the past month. Operating at 89% which puts them at 4th in that time span.

Gotta love when a goalie saves your ass

 

[Cosmix]

Yeah, and what about those kids that skate around with those flags at the Senators games ....... it should be done more professionally !!!!!!!!!

And why do kids get to ride the Zamboni, that's not professional at all !!!!!!!!

Yeah, I want a ride on the Zamboni too!

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Very happy we get another chance to see what pyatt can bring.

Boucher saved a few tears again tonight

 

[Back in Black]

1 hour to g0

2 hours to go for Team Canada

 

[Cosmix]

Tierney has played wing in the past and has 3 fewer points than Dzingel despite playing with inferior line mates. Also, almost every team in the league distributes their talent throughout the lineup. Boucher also switches his lines up a ton, so I dunno... seems like complaining for the sake of it.

I am more interested in finding line combos that consistently work (score more than the other team's line or prevent the other team's line from scoring) than spreading the talent through the lineup.

 

[Cosmix]

Tierny has 4 goals, and it's hard to think of plays where he got assists where he was a driving factor, he's been the biggest recipient of stat padding from the amount of goals we have scored bar none. Even Tkachuk and White who are getting lots of points because of Stone, are making plays almost every game where you say that the are creating things, I don't see that with Tierny, at all.

I would trade him to somebody as soon as JGP gets back, though I know that's not going to happen.

I was pleasantly surprised by Tierney at the start of the season and was hoping he would improve when playing on the second line, but his play seems to have declined recently. White has surpassed him and is accomplishing more.