Player Discussion Mike Reilly (D) acquired from the Montreal Canadiens

[Cosmix]

If we're selling off a half a dozen players in the next 7 weeks, why all the concern about adding an additional contract?

Because the sell-off might have to include some contracts coming back.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Because the sell-off might have to include some contracts coming back.

That’s not going to be a make or break for a team looking to pick up a missing piece for a run.

Unless there is a player we want in return, there is no reason to take back a contract on a traded pending UFA.

 

[Cosmix]

I've been saying for weeks they needed another guy that can play here.

Nothing wrong with this move.

Just one?

 

[Cosmix]

That’s not going to be a make or break for a team looking to pick up a missing piece for a run.

Unless there is a player we want in return, there is no reason to take back a contract on a traded pending UFA.

The other team might be up against or very near the limit. It could affect which of several trades you can make.

Better to have some room to maneuver and choose amongst the options than no room.

In any event, the 5th pick has limited value and the injuries have affected the team. Not certain if a trade was really necessary at this time, given the lack of info on injured players returning, but giving Brannstrom some more NHL experience is not a bad thing for his development, nor for the tank.

 

[Cosmix]

Look we are not prepared to make the deal unless we can throw in a draft pick don't even bother asking.

Yah I know its a 5th round pick but .. seems like it had value to someone.

The Sabourin effect is felt again. At least we are not getting intimidated out of the rink.

Exactly! Just out performed.

 

[Cosmix]

Needed d help especially in Belleville, considering the contract situation I guess it makes sense. Hoping for a competitive market this year as ideally we become bigtime sellers

We already did the “big time seller” thing trading Hoffman, Karlsson, Duchene, Stone and Dzingle. We may now see the “small time selling thing” with our UFAs. But the coach likes some of those small time things which could limit who gets traded by the TDL.

 

[Cosmix]

They sold off the best crop of UFA's ever seen in one season, so of course they have a lot of picks stacked for the coming year. Its gonna be a hell of a draft if they keep losing along with SJ. The team has used quite a few over the years for financial considerations, but this coming year hasn't been too affected. Maybe its savvy for a budget team, maybe its short sighted and careless or maybe its a bit of both. Cash seems to be as much of an asset for them as actual player assets, so it is what it is.

The sell off was cost related, nothing else. The rebuild is what you do after you gut the team of top players. That is what it is.

 

[Melgene Eunyk]

Maybe they see something in Reilly? It's possible that they not only see insulation for Chabot/younger players, but they think Reilly could become something, given more opportunity.

 

[Cosmix]

Why is it that people cant grasp that losing this season is what this team should be trying to do. Wasting assets to negate what the obvious goal is counter productive. This team made a massive commitment to rebuilding last season without their first but now they go the opposite direction? Its beyond stupid.

The problem appears to be that Dorion does not have an actual plan the trade for Reilly proves it. I read through the thread with so many posters defending the trade. The main argument people could come up with was that Chabot is playing too much.... He doesnt have to play that much there are 5 other D men dressed; the coachs are the ones deciding he plays too much. This is a throw away tank season, its as plain as day, however its very obvious the GM doesnt seem to think so despite where the team sits in the standings and the roster its icing. I dont think this has been articulated to the coach properly. The younger players need some ice time, however the coach doesnt trust them because he is trying to win its a situation that needs to be rectified simply by unloading players. However, instead they keep adding. Burning picks like they are worthless for players that are available for 0 assets. Until this team starts managing its assets properly this hellish rebuild will never end.

There is nothing worse than finishing between 5th and 10th last in the NHL, absolutely nothing its why teams like Arizona are still horrible after not making the playoffs for a decade. Thats what management is apparently trying to achieve.

I agree in a vacuum a 5th rounder doesnt have alot of value, but it has more value than a 6th or a 7th why are they giving up a 5th for a player going on waivers?... When you add in a 2nd a 4th and another 5th on a team that is tanking without getting any real tangible assets back its moronic. Taylor Hall just got more than a signed Mark Stone because he was managed properly when will this fan base and media hold management accountable for all of these blunders. All of this misdirection? A clear and consise plan needs to be presented so that there is real hope.



Exactly. So when everyone gets back then what happens? A couple more games of losing oh dear lord the harm.



Why is it a great trade if the goal is to finish low in the standings? Giving up assets for players they can have for free. Please explain that to me.

You seem to think that the team has committed to several years of rebuilding as a strategy when the real reason for the sell off of the best UFA players was cost cutting. The rebuild talk is PR spin for what you must do given prior actions (gutting the team of top end players). The plan is to do PR spin like FYOUS and “The Kids are alright”. M would love nothing better than to make the playoffs with this low cost team to gain playoff revs. I think D is reacting accordingly. Looking for a tank plan and rational roster management in this situation is going to end in frustration.

 

[DJB]

Are people really arguing over a 2021 5th round pick? A 5th? Come on get real. We have about 20 picks this year a 5th is nothing.

Dorion said it this am on 1200. They acquired Reilly because the back end is decimated atm. They only wanted Brannstrom to get about 20 games in the NHL this year and he is better served in the AHL where he can properly develop.

You have to think as well that Hainsey, maybe Boro and Demelo will be gone at the trade deadline and we do need bodies back there.

A 5th is nothing to get Reilly and improves our situation all around.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Good move
We’ve been playing with 4 Belleville guys on Defence
Besides us needing help so does Belleville

 

[stempniaksen]

Are people really arguing over a 2021 5th round pick? A 5th? Come on get real. We have about 20 picks this year a 5th is nothing.

It's not nothing, it's still a "free" draft pick.

I don't think anyone has an issue with the deal in a vacuum, it's pretty obvious no one wants Chabot playing 30+ minutes/game.

The issue is that the team went into the season with the least number of defencemen under contract in the entire league, and that a lack of organizational depth on defence was an issue that some of us saw coming before the puck was even dropped on the season. That's not to say that whoever came up from Belleville would light the league on fire, but at least we wouldn't be moving out a draft pick (as insignificant as you think a 5th is) in that case.

- Pierre Dorion and the organization should have had the foresight to have a normal number of defencemen under contract
- The organization ran into terrible injury luck on the back end
- A 5th round pick and Andrew Sturtz ISN'T an outrageous price to pay for a serviceable 6/7 defenceman
- Giving away picks in a rebuild (or ever) is less than ideal
- Giving away picks instead of picking up a player on waivers because you're contract crunched isn't great

All of those statements can be true simultaneously.

 

[GCK]

It's not nothing, it's still a "free" draft pick.

I don't think anyone has an issue with the deal in a vacuum, it's pretty obvious no one wants Chabot playing 30+ minutes/game.

The issue is that the team went into the season with the least number of defencemen under contract in the entire league, and that a lack of organizational depth on defence was an issue that some of us saw coming before the puck was even dropped on the season. That's not to say that whoever came up from Belleville would light the league on fire, but at least we wouldn't be moving out a draft pick (as insignificant as you think a 5th is) in that case.

- Pierre Dorion and the organization should have had the foresight to have a normal number of defencemen under contract
- The organization ran into terrible injury luck on the back end
- A 5th round pick and Andrew Sturtz ISN'T an outrageous price to pay for a serviceable 6/7 defenceman
- Giving away picks in a rebuild (or ever) is less than ideal
- Giving away picks instead of picking up a player on waivers because you're contract crunched isn't great

All of those statements can be true simultaneously.

But the 2 most important points are

1. Dorion should have had 1 or 2 more D under contract.

2. It’s a 5th 18 months from now, it doesn’t matter even a little.

 

[stempniaksen]

But the 2 most important points are

1. Dorion should have had 1 or 2 more D under contract.

2. It’s a 5th 18 months from now, it doesn’t matter even a little.

I just don't get this line of thinking.

Does it matter A LOT? Probably not.
Does it matter more than "nothing"? Obviously yes.

At what point do draft picks "matter"? Will it not matter when Dorion picks up mid round picks at the deadline for some of the UFA's as well? Or does that only work when he's the one giving up the picks?

 

[GCK]

I just don't get this line of thinking.

Does it matter A LOT? Probably not.
Does it matter more than "nothing"? Obviously yes.

At what point do draft picks "matter"? Will it not matter when Dorion picks up mid round picks at the deadline for some of the UFA's as well? Or does that only work when he's the one giving up the picks?

When you are getting something more valuable than a 5 th round pick the pick doesn’t matter.

When you can recoup that pick at next years TDL by moving that player that pick doesn’t matter.

when you have too many prospects and picks in the next 2 drafts you could conceivably fill up your reserve list the pick doesn’t matter.

 

[TheDebater]

To all those who keep referring to a fifth round pick as meaningless please bear in mind that the two greatest right wingers in team history (with apologies to Marian Hossa) were drafted in the sixth round.

Ottawa took on a bad contract of a player Montreal had no use for. It would have made more sense to me If Ottawa was the team acquiring a fifth round pick for doing Montreal a favor.

Well thank God we have two 6th round picks this season and both of our 6th round picks for 2021 and 2022. Wait, what was your point again?

Here is an idea, how about we "raise" our asking price for Pageau from a 1st round pick and prospect to something like 3-4 fifth round picks?? Maybe we can squeeze out two 5th rounders for Boro or Hainsey at the deadline too?

 

[lancepitlick]

Every 2nd-7th rounder is a lotto pick for a good and cheap player that outperforms their contract, which is a major bonus in a league with a salary cap and in Ottawa's case a cheap team. Ottawa's two best players this season are a 3rd and a 4th rounder.

It makes sense to try to make other moves to avoid having to trade pick needlessly so as to have more lotto chips.

A properly managed team that is aiming for last place should have enough rostered 3rd liners/6 d men via waivers/free agents so as to not need to trade picks to make sure your players aren't comically bad.

Dorion should have signed a few more Hainsey's and just kept his picks. It's that simple. Poor management unless you think the guy you traded for has future upside or you think he can be traded for equivalent picks in the future. That remains a TBD.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I just don't get this line of thinking.

Does it matter A LOT? Probably not.
Does it matter more than "nothing"? Obviously yes.

At what point do draft picks "matter"? Will it not matter when Dorion picks up mid round picks at the deadline for some of the UFA's as well? Or does that only work when he's the one giving up the picks?

The pick is 18 months from now and Reilly's contract up is in 18 months and 7 days. He will be dealt next year and likely recoup the asset.

As for the argument that we could have grabbed him for free and traded him for a 5th next year and, woohoo, free asset, that ignores the fact that we are not the only team who can make waiver claims.

I will say, and have said for months, it was a mistake heading into the season with so few DMen under contract; that said, I don't doubt that we tried to bring on other players. I suspect we simply weren't able to sign the guys we wanted, and we didn't want to use a contract spot on guys we didn't want. I will say, we've done pretty well bringing in guys on PTOs and AHL contracts.

 

[TheDebater]

Every 2nd-7th rounder is a lotto pick for a good and cheap player that outperforms their contract, which is a major bonus in a league with a salary cap and in Ottawa's case a cheap team. Ottawa's two best players this season are a 3rd and a 4th rounder.

It makes sense to try to make other moves to avoid having to trade pick needlessly so as to have more lotto chips.

A properly managed team that is aiming for last place should have enough rostered 3rd liners/6 d men via waivers/free agents so as to not need to trade picks to make sure your players aren't comically bad.

Dorion should have signed a few more Hainsey's and just kept his picks. It's that simple. Poor management unless you think the guy you traded for has future upside or you think he can be traded for equivalent picks in the future. That remains a TBD.

The same Hainsey that half the people on this site think was a pointless signing and use it to further prove how bad Dorion is?

 

[GCK]

Every 2nd-7th rounder is a lotto pick for a good and cheap player that outperforms their contract, which is a major bonus in a league with a salary cap and in Ottawa's case a cheap team. Ottawa's two best players this season are a 3rd and a 4th rounder.

It makes sense to try to make other moves to avoid having to trade pick needlessly so as to have more lotto chips.

A properly managed team that is aiming for last place should have enough rostered 3rd liners/6 d men via waivers/free agents so as to not need to trade picks to make sure your players aren't comically bad.

Dorion should have signed a few more Hainsey's and just kept his picks. It's that simple. Poor management unless you think the guy you traded for has future upside or you think he can be traded for equivalent picks in the future. That remains a TBD.

Let’s move Chabot and Tkachuk. Let’s do it for 4 1st rounders each. Picks !!!!!!!!

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

It's not nothing, it's still a "free" draft pick.

I don't think anyone has an issue with the deal in a vacuum, it's pretty obvious no one wants Chabot playing 30+ minutes/game.

The issue is that the team went into the season with the least number of defencemen under contract in the entire league, and that a lack of organizational depth on defence was an issue that some of us saw coming before the puck was even dropped on the season. That's not to say that whoever came up from Belleville would light the league on fire, but at least we wouldn't be moving out a draft pick (as insignificant as you think a 5th is) in that case.

- Pierre Dorion and the organization should have had the foresight to have a normal number of defencemen under contract
- The organization ran into terrible injury luck on the back end
- A 5th round pick and Andrew Sturtz ISN'T an outrageous price to pay for a serviceable 6/7 defenceman
- Giving away picks in a rebuild (or ever) is less than ideal
- Giving away picks instead of picking up a player on waivers because you're contract crunched isn't great

All of those statements can be true simultaneously.

If you're seriously saying that dorion should have planned to have 4 of his top 6 defensemen hurt at once, you're just making shit up to get upset about.

Most teams in the league would make a trade like this if they had the same number of injuries on defense.

The shit people say on here sometimes

 

[Cosmix]

Maybe they see something in Reilly? It's possible that they not only see insulation for Chabot/younger players, but they think Reilly could become something, given more opportunity.

So you are saying that Dorion is delusional?

 

[Cosmix]

With added minutes on a bad team, he may be able to increase his value, like a Names, Brown, Tierney, Duclair (the gold standard), etc...

These lost in the shuffle guys in their mid primes are the perfect players to pick up. A 5th rounder got a player that could easily net a 4th rounder if he’s able to show a little something with a consistent roster spot and some play time.

And each of these guys also gets a chance to audition to be a part of the squad on a more permanent basis if they can break out a little. If neither happens then they simply hold down a roster spot on a tanking team, allowing prospects to stay in a prime development situation in Belleville.

It’s wins all around, at the cost of a 5th round pick.

Hopefully he brings what is required to aid the tank.

 

[JungleBeat]

If you're seriously saying that dorion should have planned to have 4 of his top 6 defensemen hurt at once, you're just making **** up to get upset about.

Most teams in the league would make a trade like this if they had the same number of injuries on defense.

The **** people say on here sometimes

Relax. People are raising some good points which some posters want to turn a blind eye too and deny that draft picks have some value.

Yzerman in Detroit had injuries to three of his dmen and didn’t go around trading picks. Why? Because the team is rebuilding and tanking, getting waiver caliber players aren’t worth it.

 

[TheDebater]

Relax. People are raising some good points which some posters want to turn a blind eye too and deny that draft picks have some value.

Yzerman in Detroit had injuries to three of his dmen and didn’t go around trading picks. Why? Because the team is rebuilding and tanking, getting waiver caliber players aren’t worth it.

Who is saying the opposite though, that draft picks do not have value? I could argue all day that a 7th round pick has tremendous value, but it would make absolutely no sense to defend that position without the basis of context. The context for our current situation as follows:

For this draft and next year, we have three 1st rounders and six second round picks. Name one other team in the league that comes close to that? We also have two 6th round picks and plenty of time to add 4th and 5th for next season.

This conversation literally becomes redundant the moment Dorion makes another insignificant trade where we ship out an wanted player for a 4th or 5th round pick, I mean honestly.