Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by toivy, Jul 30, 2019.
Once again "Ottawa is doing a good job of rebuilding with the current front office."
...a good job of destroying this franchise in the city. That's about it.
Ok, this is progress already.
So, to win the draft lottery is the right rebuilding. And if you lose, then ... Are you serious?
Ottawa already has elite young players, Ottawa already has the depth of young players. Another 2-3 young players are needed. Ottawa has 9 picks in the next 2 years. That should be enough. The remaining players will remain out of the roster. Do you offer to trade cap space for a 4-5 round in this situation? Or did someone offer 1 round?
So trading Hoffman for Boedker instead of futures was a good job of rebuilding?
Holding on to Duchene and Stone until the last possible moment was the best way to maximize their return when the decision to rebuild had been made in Feb the season before?
Making trades that are clearly geared towards financial savings instead of focusing on improving the the farm system and young talent is a good job of rebuilding?
Sure, we have a good prospect pool, and given how terrible our projected roster looks to be, it will probably get better with another high pick, but having a good prospect pool should be the absolute bare minimum when a team trades off the likes of Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, Hoffman, and Dzingel while finishing bottom off the league twice in a ~12 month period.
We are Canadians, we are passionate about our hockey team and are livid how two men have managed to destroy something we have all dearly loved for years, that's what 27 pages on this topic tells me.
Hoffman's trade was forced. I don’t think it’s necessary to remind about the history of quarrels of two women, etc. ...
In my opinion, trading in the last term is more profitable than trading at the beginning of the season. The return was good, and I doubt that it was possible to find something better.
So impossible San Jose managed to flip Hoffman 24 hours later for a better return.....
The Hoffman return?? You are just trolling now, the Sharks were gonna buy Boedker out, we could have signed him for cheaper if we really wanted him. We actually helped them be able to acquire AND re-sign Erik Karlsson.
No proofs needed hey?
Just common sense
What other depleted front office who engaged in a rebuild is this being compared to, to be determined that its going good?
Hoffman's trade was forced, yet we decided to take SJ's cap dump instead of Florida's futures. There was no rational justification at the time and there is none now.
Your opinion is in the minority in terms of when to get the best return. Draft day or the time leading up to it is usually seen as the best time, or heck, the trade deadline the year before. We started the rebuild in Feb of 2018, and decided that we wanted to hold on to Stone Duchene and ostensibly Karlsson (pretty sure we were trying to trade him but Dorion wanted us to believe otherwise) only to wait a year to trade of the former two.
The last sentence though, wow... you doubt it was possible to find something better? So, in your mind it was all handled optimally? No better outcome was possible? Trading Karlsson (without tying Ryan's contract to him) in Feb 2018 wouldn't have potentially returned more? Trading Stone and Duchene at the draft wouldn't have potentially returned more?
Look, I'm not saying everything was handled the worst possible (Hoffman aside imo), but we got backed into a corner on a lot of trades.
No, you absolutely misunderstood the post.
You need to observe how the core of young players is formed, and not compare front offices.
The draft, this is the time when the team is very inappropriately parted with the picks. Therefore, yes, the draft day is the worst time to trade players for the picks.
And yes, Karlsson's trade was not one of the best. The teams were aware of the differences and entered into negotiations from a position of strength.
Stone trade was good, many said it was a home run. Dzingel trade is a high level.
The team was never in a position of strength and they did it to themselves. Remember Dorion's famous "even Gretzky got traded" quote??
Its still better than waiting until the final hour to make a rental trade.
Please find someone other than Ottawa media who said that this was a homerun?? They traded an extended Mark Stone and didn't even get a first back.
I will agree that it looks like Dorion did well here.
Either way, this is starting to drift into being very off-topic.
Yeah the fervent defense of a consensus horrible GM is very thought provoking.
I agree Dorion hasn't been doing a good job but part of the reason Nj and NYR have good rebuilds is dumb luck. NJ won the lottery twice and NYR moved a bunch of spots to get Kakko.
How do we know Florida offered Ottawa"futures" for Hoffmann?
Or is this just some retroactive editing after Hoffman was flipped to Florida?
If Ottawa was offered Florida's "futures" as you seem to be suggesting, then why wouldn't Ottawa have just set up a three team trade?
I think Dorion wanted to send Hoffman to the Western Conference, to placate the Karlssons at the time, because of the online issues.
Ottawa did not trade an extended Mark Stone.
Mark was traded to Vegas on Febuary 25th.
Mark Stone's Contract was extended on March 8th, by the VGK.
BTW Erik Brannstrom was a 2017 first round pick by the VGK.
NJ "won" this year because Nico is not star material.
Chicago and NYR won because they are two of the largest markets and not having them in the playoffs is bad for the business.
If Melnyk sells the team then 100% the team wins the draft. I am willing to bet all my vcoins on it... Are vcoins still a thing?
For the Ottawa Senators, unfortunately, money is also an asset.
We didn’t trade picks for money to go into EMs pocket, that money is very likely being stockpiled to be used to pay for our young core players who need raises over the next few years.
It’s far from ideal, but if that’s the situation the owner of the team has put us in, then we have to play the hand we’re dealt, for now.
There is zero evidence out there to suggest that EM is somehow selling picks and robbing the team, there is however much evidence to suggest that revenue is dropping and is continuing to drop, and money has to come from somewhere if the owner doesn’t have the money of his own to put in.
PD pretty much told us that the money saved was for our young players.
Sucks for sure, but it’s a lot less bleak than the owner robbing the team of assets, to buy another house.
Vegas was given permission to discuss contracts with Stone before the trade. This is known information.
I will say, if the options were a 1st and a 2nd or a Brannstrom and a 2nd, you take Brannstrom and the second.
They should have just put him on waivers and it would have been a better move. They did not need to just accept a useless cap dump in return for their star forward.
Why would they be placating the Karlsson's? So that they could then follow it up with their BS offer not including trade protection?
If this doesn't happen, can we at least finally put all this to rest and just call it what most of us think it is?
Feels like the excuse can has been kicked numerous times for these guys and if it doesn't play out as you predict, that should be the last straw as treating this as anything but cost cutting.
Dorion refused to discuss a futures trade with Florida, their GM confimed as much. Wanting to send Hoffman west and reducing your return/leverage to placate the player you would go on to trade anyways is just another poor decision.
Ottawa targetted a roster player for some reason. Setting up a three way is done when you can't get what you want. Why would he set up a three way when he got thr crap return he was targetting?
Separate names with a comma.