Confirmed with Link: Sens acquire Callahan + pick for Condon + pick

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Hun

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Apr 8, 2019
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Then why does every other NHL team have those positions filled?

As a reminder, by definition every other NHL team is more successful than Ottawa as Ottawa finished dead last in the league last year.

Why do you believe they are not needed?

You made the claim so you have to provide the evidence why its true.

There is no way anyone should take the claim that all the major executive positions being unfilled is "no great need " seriously.

Once again "Ottawa is doing a good job of rebuilding with the current front office."
 

Hun

Registered User
Apr 8, 2019
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Cap space is an asset, in the ESPN article it specifically talks about it and how even Arizona used it to aquire asstets. As opposed to dumping salary instead. Tim Mcaliff explains the exact same thing in the vlog.

My post below specifically outlines how the rebuild has been horribly done thus far.
Ok, this is progress already.
So, to win the draft lottery is the right rebuilding. And if you lose, then ... Are you serious?
Ottawa already has elite young players, Ottawa already has the depth of young players. Another 2-3 young players are needed. Ottawa has 9 picks in the next 2 years. That should be enough. The remaining players will remain out of the roster. Do you offer to trade cap space for a 4-5 round in this situation? Or did someone offer 1 round?
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,145
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Once again "Ottawa is doing a good job of rebuilding with the current front office."

Huh...

So trading Hoffman for Boedker instead of futures was a good job of rebuilding?

Holding on to Duchene and Stone until the last possible moment was the best way to maximize their return when the decision to rebuild had been made in Feb the season before?

Making trades that are clearly geared towards financial savings instead of focusing on improving the the farm system and young talent is a good job of rebuilding?

Sure, we have a good prospect pool, and given how terrible our projected roster looks to be, it will probably get better with another high pick, but having a good prospect pool should be the absolute bare minimum when a team trades off the likes of Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, Hoffman, and Dzingel while finishing bottom off the league twice in a ~12 month period.
 
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BatherSeason

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Jun 16, 2009
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This deal is not a depressive move. Just "the world is crazy." On this branch.
P.S. The 27th page for worthless trading ... This is definitely crazy.
We are Canadians, we are passionate about our hockey team and are livid how two men have managed to destroy something we have all dearly loved for years, that's what 27 pages on this topic tells me.
 

Hun

Registered User
Apr 8, 2019
196
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Huh...

So trading Hoffman for Boedker instead of futures was a good job of rebuilding?

Holding on to Duchene and Stone until the last possible moment was the best way to maximize their return when the decision to rebuild had been made in Feb the season before?

Making trades that are clearly geared towards financial savings instead of focusing on improving the the farm system and young talent is a good job of rebuilding?

Sure, we have a good prospect pool, and given how terrible our projected roster looks to be, it will probably get better with another high pick, but having a good prospect pool should be the absolute bare minimum when a team trades off the likes of Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, Hoffman, and Dzingel while finishing bottom off the league twice in a ~12 month period.
Hoffman's trade was forced. I don’t think it’s necessary to remind about the history of quarrels of two women, etc. ...
In my opinion, trading in the last term is more profitable than trading at the beginning of the season. The return was good, and I doubt that it was possible to find something better.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
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Hoffman's trade was forced. I don’t think it’s necessary to remind about the history of quarrels of two women, etc. ...
In my opinion, trading in the last term is more profitable than trading at the beginning of the season. The return was good, and I doubt that it was possible to find something better.

So impossible San Jose managed to flip Hoffman 24 hours later for a better return.....
 

Alex1234

Registered User
Oct 14, 2014
16,076
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Common sense tells us that the Senators are in a re-build, and want all their own young goaltenders to play as much as possible, wherever they are in the system.

Ottawa had three goaltenders on one way contracts, and wanted Anderson and Nilsson to play ......... that left Condon the odd man out, and nowhere to play in the Senators system ....... they, logically, wanted him off the books ................ the trade to Tampa accomplished that.

Tampa wanted to free up cap space, for their own reasons, and wanted to move the Callahan contract .......... so it was a matter of time before they moved it, so if not to the Senators, then to another team.
No proofs needed hey?
Just common sense
Ok thanks
Noted
 

Upgrayedd

Earn'em and Burn'em
Oct 14, 2010
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Once again "Ottawa is doing a good job of rebuilding with the current front office."

What other depleted front office who engaged in a rebuild is this being compared to, to be determined that its going good?
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,145
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Hoffman's trade was forced. I don’t think it’s necessary to remind about the history of quarrels of two women, etc. ...
In my opinion, trading in the last term is more profitable than trading at the beginning of the season. The return was good, and I doubt that it was possible to find something better.

Hoffman's trade was forced, yet we decided to take SJ's cap dump instead of Florida's futures. There was no rational justification at the time and there is none now.

Your opinion is in the minority in terms of when to get the best return. Draft day or the time leading up to it is usually seen as the best time, or heck, the trade deadline the year before. We started the rebuild in Feb of 2018, and decided that we wanted to hold on to Stone Duchene and ostensibly Karlsson (pretty sure we were trying to trade him but Dorion wanted us to believe otherwise) only to wait a year to trade of the former two.

The last sentence though, wow... you doubt it was possible to find something better? So, in your mind it was all handled optimally? No better outcome was possible? Trading Karlsson (without tying Ryan's contract to him) in Feb 2018 wouldn't have potentially returned more? Trading Stone and Duchene at the draft wouldn't have potentially returned more?

Look, I'm not saying everything was handled the worst possible (Hoffman aside imo), but we got backed into a corner on a lot of trades.
 

Hun

Registered User
Apr 8, 2019
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The Hoffman return?? You are just trolling now, the Sharks were gonna buy Boedker out, we could have signed him for cheaper if we really wanted him. We actually helped them be able to acquire AND re-sign Erik Karlsson.
No, you absolutely misunderstood the post.
 

Hun

Registered User
Apr 8, 2019
196
40
What other depleted front office who engaged in a rebuild is this being compared to, to be determined that its going good?
You need to observe how the core of young players is formed, and not compare front offices.:)
 

Hun

Registered User
Apr 8, 2019
196
40
Hoffman's trade was forced, yet we decided to take SJ's cap dump instead of Florida's futures. There was no rational justification at the time and there is none now.

Your opinion is in the minority in terms of when to get the best return. Draft day or the time leading up to it is usually seen as the best time, or heck, the trade deadline the year before. We started the rebuild in Feb of 2018, and decided that we wanted to hold on to Stone Duchene and ostensibly Karlsson (pretty sure we were trying to trade him but Dorion wanted us to believe otherwise) only to wait a year to trade of the former two.

The last sentence though, wow... you doubt it was possible to find something better? So, in your mind it was all handled optimally? No better outcome was possible? Trading Karlsson (without tying Ryan's contract to him) in Feb 2018 wouldn't have potentially returned more? Trading Stone and Duchene at the draft wouldn't have potentially returned more?

Look, I'm not saying everything was handled the worst possible (Hoffman aside imo), but we got backed into a corner on a lot of trades.
The draft, this is the time when the team is very inappropriately parted with the picks. Therefore, yes, the draft day is the worst time to trade players for the picks.
And yes, Karlsson's trade was not one of the best. The teams were aware of the differences and entered into negotiations from a position of strength.
Stone trade was good, many said it was a home run. Dzingel trade is a high level.
 

BatherSeason

Registered User
Jun 16, 2009
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The teams were aware of the differences and entered into negotiations from a position of strength.
The team was never in a position of strength and they did it to themselves. Remember Dorion's famous "even Gretzky got traded" quote??

. Therefore, yes, the draft day is the worst time to trade players for the picks.
Its still better than waiting until the final hour to make a rental trade.

Stone trade was good, many said it was a home run.
Please find someone other than Ottawa media who said that this was a homerun?? They traded an extended Mark Stone and didn't even get a first back.

Dzingel trade is a high level.
I will agree that it looks like Dorion did well here.

Either way, this is starting to drift into being very off-topic.
 
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branch

#GirlBoss #Vibes
Jan 12, 2008
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The team was never in a position of strength and they did it to themselves. Remember Dorion's famous "even Gretzky got traded" quote??


Its still better than waiting until the final hour to make a rental trade.


Please find someone other than Ottawa media who said that this was a homerun?? They traded an extended Mark Stone and didn't even get a first back.


I will agree that it looks like Dorion did well here.

Either way, this is starting to drift into being very off-topic.
Yeah the fervent defense of a consensus horrible GM is very thought provoking.
 

Wallet Inspector

Registered User
Jan 19, 2013
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Brassard, Zaitsev, Callahan, Stone, Karlsson, Dzingel, Duchene.

Oh yeah finishing last and second last back to back years but only have two top 50 prospects no one in the top 10. On top of the horrid finishes they traded 2 franchise level players, and a first line center. Still dont have a top 10 prospect pool. Wanna look at a rebuild done properly look at NJ and the NYR.

Trading cap space for salary dumps. Picks for salary dumps.

But you think this has been a successful rebuild? You think Dorion doesnt need to be replaced or the bare minimum get some serious help.....

If youre simply ok with this then your standards are very low.
I agree Dorion hasn't been doing a good job but part of the reason Nj and NYR have good rebuilds is dumb luck. NJ won the lottery twice and NYR moved a bunch of spots to get Kakko.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Hoffman's trade was forced, yet we decided to take SJ's cap dump instead of Florida's futures. There was no rational justification at the time and there is none now.


How do we know Florida offered Ottawa"futures" for Hoffmann?

Or is this just some retroactive editing after Hoffman was flipped to Florida?

If Ottawa was offered Florida's "futures" as you seem to be suggesting, then why wouldn't Ottawa have just set up a three team trade?

I think Dorion wanted to send Hoffman to the Western Conference, to placate the Karlssons at the time, because of the online issues.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Sep 23, 2015
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They traded an extended Mark Stone and didn't even get a first back.

Ottawa did not trade an extended Mark Stone.

Mark was traded to Vegas on Febuary 25th.

Mark Stone's Contract was extended on March 8th, by the VGK.


BTW Erik Brannstrom was a 2017 first round pick by the VGK.
 

Qward

Because! That's why!
Jul 23, 2010
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Behind you, look out
NJ "won" this year because Nico is not star material.
Chicago and NYR won because they are two of the largest markets and not having them in the playoffs is bad for the business.

If Melnyk sells the team then 100% the team wins the draft. I am willing to bet all my vcoins on it... Are vcoins still a thing?
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
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For the Ottawa Senators, unfortunately, money is also an asset.

We didn’t trade picks for money to go into EMs pocket, that money is very likely being stockpiled to be used to pay for our young core players who need raises over the next few years.

It’s far from ideal, but if that’s the situation the owner of the team has put us in, then we have to play the hand we’re dealt, for now.

There is zero evidence out there to suggest that EM is somehow selling picks and robbing the team, there is however much evidence to suggest that revenue is dropping and is continuing to drop, and money has to come from somewhere if the owner doesn’t have the money of his own to put in.

PD pretty much told us that the money saved was for our young players.

Sucks for sure, but it’s a lot less bleak than the owner robbing the team of assets, to buy another house.
 

Qward

Because! That's why!
Jul 23, 2010
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Behind you, look out
Ottawa did not trade an extended Mark Stone.

Mark was traded to Vegas on Febuary 25th.

Mark Stone's Contract was extended on March 8th, by the VGK.

Vegas was given permission to discuss contracts with Stone before the trade. This is known information.

I will say, if the options were a 1st and a 2nd or a Brannstrom and a 2nd, you take Brannstrom and the second.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
15,229
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How do we know Florida offered Ottawa"futures" for Hoffmann?

Or is this just some retroactive editing after Hoffman was flipped to Florida?

If Ottawa was offered Florida's "futures" as you seem to be suggesting, then why wouldn't Ottawa have just set up a three team trade?

I think Dorion wanted to send Hoffman to the Western Conference, to placate the Karlssons at the time, because of the online issues.
They should have just put him on waivers and it would have been a better move. They did not need to just accept a useless cap dump in return for their star forward.

Why would they be placating the Karlsson's? So that they could then follow it up with their BS offer not including trade protection?
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
15,229
10,452
Yukon
For the Ottawa Senators, unfortunately, money is also an asset.

We didn’t trade picks for money to go into EMs pocket, that money is very likely being stockpiled to be used to pay for our young core players who need raises over the next few years.

It’s far from ideal, but if that’s the situation the owner of the team has put us in, then we have to play the hand we’re dealt, for now.

There is zero evidence out there to suggest that EM is somehow selling picks and robbing the team, there is however much evidence to suggest that revenue is dropping and is continuing to drop, and money has to come from somewhere if the owner doesn’t have the money of his own to put in.

PD pretty much told us that the money saved was for our young players.

Sucks for sure, but it’s a lot less bleak than the owner robbing the team of assets, to buy another house.
If this doesn't happen, can we at least finally put all this to rest and just call it what most of us think it is?

Feels like the excuse can has been kicked numerous times for these guys and if it doesn't play out as you predict, that should be the last straw as treating this as anything but cost cutting.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,145
30,370
How do we know Florida offered Ottawa"futures" for Hoffmann?

Or is this just some retroactive editing after Hoffman was flipped to Florida?

If Ottawa was offered Florida's "futures" as you seem to be suggesting, then why wouldn't Ottawa have just set up a three team trade?

I think Dorion wanted to send Hoffman to the Western Conference, to placate the Karlssons at the time, because of the online issues.

Dorion refused to discuss a futures trade with Florida, their GM confimed as much. Wanting to send Hoffman west and reducing your return/leverage to placate the player you would go on to trade anyways is just another poor decision.

Ottawa targetted a roster player for some reason. Setting up a three way is done when you can't get what you want. Why would he set up a three way when he got thr crap return he was targetting?
 
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