Confirmed with Link: Sens acquire Callahan + pick for Condon + pick

Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by toivy, Jul 30, 2019.

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  1. JD1 Registered User

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    Tell you what....I read pretty much everything there is to read about this organization and I've never seen a shred of evidence that supports the view that Melnyk uses money from the his ownership of the team to support other business ventures.

    That type of statement is made on this board and repeated frequently but apart from reading it here I've never seen anything credible suggesting that to be true.
     
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  2. BonkTastic ಠ_ಠ

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    Well, I'm like 99% sure that he definitely engages in creative / "hollywood" accounting along all of the organizational assets (the arena, the hockey team, and formerly CapitalTickets before he got paid off to switch to Ticketmaster). There's almost definitely some book cooking going on there. It was the worst kept secret in-house when I was there YEARS ago.

    As for his non-Senators-related stuff, I have no idea. I've never heard of anything, even within the org. I remember when he sold most of his stables / horses, that was probably divorce-related. I can't remember anything... Doesn't mean it never happened I suppose, anything is possible, but I agree that I can't remember hearing of it ever.
     
  3. Larionov Registered User

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    We found a team to take a $3 million a year minor league goalie off our hands without us having to retain salary or take a stinky contract in return. Are you kidding me? Start the car and go. Any team in the league takes that deal, regardless of how broke their owner may or may not be.

    It's also worth noting that by the time we are ready to contend, the Bolts and Leafs windows will be closing. We are at a different stage than they are.

    The good news is that this all comes to a head in a year anyway - either Melnyk keeps Chabot, or he sells the team to someone who can. Stubborn as he is, he's smart enough to know that his franchise value will take a massive hit if Chabot is allowed to take an offer sheet and the fans go into full riot mode, creditors start calling loans, league starts getting involved, etc.
     
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  4. Micklebot Moderator

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    Uh huh.

    Like I said, chose your sources for their credibility on the subject, not for whether they fit your narrative.

    I offered one from Forbes, in an article discussing revenues for teams. They have a background in financial matters along with a strong reputation wrt that subject and are specifically discussing where revenue goes in the article.

    But seeing as you've ignored that one, here's one from the Canadian press where they relay what Bettman said instead of the quotes you used which are the writers thoughts:

    Heck, the last quote you used even say "essentially", as in technically not, which is the point I've been making; if you're going to be pedantic on cost savings being for the team not the owner, be prepared to be called out when you try to twist other comments like where expansion fees go. You can't have it both ways.
     
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  5. Sens Registered User

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    I’d expect the Chabot hit pieces to begin popping up by the end of the year by big Bruce to set the narrative for a Chabot move by the draft
     
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  6. Micklebot Moderator

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    I can't imagine Melnyk directly taking money out of the team to prop up other business ventures. but the team, and every other one is guaranteed going to manipulate the numbers to their benefit.

    source

    Now, is paying one company for services for another both owned by the same person funneling money out of the team? Idk, nor do I know if he is specifically doing so. There's obviously a relation between the team and the arena that are doing so, as you would expect, but to a degree that it would be considered shady?
     
  7. The Lewler GOAT BUDGET AINEC

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    100 %.

    If it's going that route, it will start with the "The Sens have made what they feel is a fair offer and the ball is in Chabot's court", followed by "something something, still far apart, Sens now looking at bridge deal".
     
  8. thinkwild Veni Vidi Toga

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    I cant say ive read anything about Melnyk using Sens debt for other business purposes either. But then we don’t have a media that I can assume would have looked into that.

    Exactly why is this team in so much debt though? Melnyk bought this team knowing the issue was that the previous owner let debt get out of hand and lost control. But it seemed almost immediately the debt was back to the level of the franchise value. And it is has since doubled, saved only by a franchise value that is expected to have tripled or more.

    But why so much debt? This is all an accumulation of operational losses over the years? I would expect owners to leverage their teams to use debt. But is any of that on the Sens books at all? I’ve never heard anything about it. But I don’t have the confidence to say im sure we would have were it true.

    Expansion fees as non HRR arent expected to be put towards the team, nor shared as salaries with the players. On the other hand it has been considered a payment for the loss of future HRR due to the dilution of the revenue sharing pool percentage by adding a new team.
     
  9. JungleBeat Abracadabramov

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    Don’t think so. This deal only benefits Melnyk’s wallet.
     
  10. Tnuoc Alucard There's more than 1 side to any story or issue.

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    Thank you, this is what I've been saying, on this topic, for a few years now. "The money is the owners, to do with as they please" ....... I've reiterated this exact phrase quite a few times.

    Yes, I understand journalist shorthand quite well, and have never suggested the owner(s) share of the expansion fee is squirreled away somewhere that the IRS or CRA can't get at it.
     
  11. Micklebot Moderator

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    So thats why when i said it goes to the Org, in the sens case SSE, but just isn't considered HRR you responded with:

    and then searched for whatever media quotes you could find and bolded the word owner?

    Yeah, your story sure checks out...

    And when you said
    that was shorthand for leave the money where it is?
     
  12. Sens of Anarchy Registered User

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    Dream job you say?
     
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  13. JD1 Registered User

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    There's a difference between creative accounting in related companies a, b ,c ,d and e that are inside a parent holding company f and pushing money between completely unrelated entities.
     
  14. JD1 Registered User

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    Speaking of having it both ways...when I first started bringing up Forbes data to counter various viewpoints here....you were on me hard about Forbes doing your damndest to discount their material. It's kinda comical seeing this coming from you.
     
  15. JD1 Registered User

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    Ok, so you don't know if he is funneling money out of his Sens holdings. @BonkTastic worked there, he was also a mod, and he doesn't know either.

    Here's a little suggestion for you....how about we start deleting this kind of content given the lack of credible sources that can substantiate it being true.

    As I've said here before....there is plenty of material to work with to criticize this organization so we shouldn't need to make stuff up
     
  16. Micklebot Moderator

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    I said there numbers are estimates and not in themself proof. I never discounted them in term of being a subj matter expert. I called their numbers what they were, an educated guess.

    I stand by that.
     
  17. Larionov Registered User

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    I'd be willing to make a fair sized wager that this doesn't happen.

    Don't misunderstand - I am no Melnyk apologist. I hate how things have gone around here in the last few years, and every time I think about Mark Stone in a Vegas jersey my blood pressure rises 20 points. It goes up another 20 when I think about a franchise icon like Alfie sitting at home because he just can't stomach the owner. I would like him to sell, preferably this morning. Having said all that, he has set a narrative for the franchise now that he either sticks to, or he loses the team. (I actually believe that he wants to win - he just has no clue how and can't control his impulses.) My bet is that he either scrapes together the cash for a Chabot contract, or swallows his pride and finally sells.
     
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  18. JD1 Registered User

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    Ya I agree with most of this

    He set the FYOUS narrative. I am not very caught up the recent transactions and our actual spend. We have a young team full of prospects. Itd be virtually impossible to dress the young roster we have without more Ryan like contracts to get us to a legit 65M situation. I like what we've done. I like that there is some veteran insulation guys like Hainsey and Ennis and that they didn't come with big term and big dollars.

    Spending 45 and having a cap hit of 65 or whatever. That is money that stays inside the Corp that can be used when we have to pay chabot, tkachuk etc. There is no sense whatsoever in blowing that cash on a non compete team.

    So...I agree with you....he set the narrative so he either delivers on what he set or he is done here.
     
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  19. Sens Registered User

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    The Sens have multiple executive positions opened

    Why are they not being filled?
     
  20. JD1 Registered User

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    I don't have a clue what positions they have open apart from the poho

    But what does that have to do with my post?
     
  21. Sens Registered User

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    Talking about them being below the cap floor as a means to spend in the future

    But they can’t even fill these positions



    I think people are delusional if they think the Sens are trying to save money to spend in the future

    The Sens are the dollar store of the nhl
     
  22. Gesus I am not religious

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    I think at this point every executive position is vacant other than Melnyk, Dorion and Mactavish.

    Would have been nice to see them invest some of those savings in coaching and exec roles.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  23. variable26 Global Matador

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    There are a lot more position open now for all kinds of jobs in the office.

    Have a look at your local listings.

    Why not even apply for some and report back on if EM is working as the HR person now too
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  24. Upgrayedd Earn'em and Burn'em

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    Imagine still holding on to the most recent incarnation of that claim as hope lol, literal definition of insanity!
     
  25. Gesus I am not religious

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    C'mon now, you know I'd never work for Melnyk ;)
     
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