Confirmed with Link: Sens acquire Callahan + pick for Condon + pick

[branch]

It's not required, but the savings of not paying a goaltender that you did not want playing anywhere in your organization, can be used to pay a player you do want to be playing in your organization ........... it's a win win.

If I'm buying a new car, and will have no need for my old one, why wouldn't I trade it in, or sell it, and use the value of the old car to reduce the cost of my new one?

Analogy certainly doesn’t work in this context at all

 

[Byron Bitz]

It's not required, but the savings of not paying a goaltender that you did not want playing anywhere in your organization, can be used to pay a player you do want to be playing in your organization ........... it's a win win.

If I'm buying a new car, and will have no need for my old one, why wouldn't I trade it in, or sell it, and use the value of the old car to reduce the cost of my new one?

So I guess you have seen something from Melnyk to make you believe he will actually re invest those savings into the team. I must have missed that.

 

[Karl Prime]

It's just so stupid that they didn't get a 2nd or something from Tampa to take on Callahan without giving up Condon. Then they could have claimed that this move was truly about the rebuild.

 

[2CHAINZ]

It's not required, but the savings of not paying a goaltender that you did not want playing anywhere in your organization, can be used to pay a player you do want to be playing in your organization ........... it's a win win.

If I'm buying a new car, and will have no need for my old one, why wouldn't I trade it in, or sell it, and use the value of the old car to reduce the cost of my new one?

Ok so when we traded Karlsson and we got all that savings why didn't we re-sign Stone? When we got savings from Stone, Duchene, Dzingle why didn't we use those savings to take on comtracts like Zietsev and Callahan and get actual assets instead of sending salary back ? I mean we had all that savings for Ottawa sports and entertainment why didn't they utilize those savings and and get back assets to help rebuild ?

Why haven't they used all that savings to build a scouting department/front office ?

What are we saving up for ?

 

[Knave]

It's not required, but the savings of not paying a goaltender that you did not want playing anywhere in your organization, can be used to pay a player you do want to be playing in your organization ........... it's a win win.

If I'm buying a new car, and will have no need for my old one, why wouldn't I trade it in, or sell it, and use the value of the old car to reduce the cost of my new one?

Callahan is not even going to play for us. This is like trading in a car for a bus pass because you've been forced into bankruptcy.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Ok so when we traded Karlsson and we got all that savings why didn't we re-sign Stone? When we got savings from Stone, Duchene, Dzingle why didn't we use those savings to take on comtracts like Zietsev and Callahan and get actual assets instead of sending salary back ? I mean we had all that savings for Ottawa sports and entertainment why didn't they utilize those savings and and get back assets to help rebuild ?

Why haven't they used all that savings to build a scouting department/front office ?

What are we saving up for ?

We’re saving up for the years of unparalleled success.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

It's just so stupid that they didn't get a 2nd or something from Tampa to take on Callahan without giving up Condon. Then they could have claimed that this move was truly about the rebuild.

There is going to be 0 investment to actually help the rebu-scam. Get used to it.

 

[Micklebot]

It's not funny, it's true. It's the owners who decide whether or not to allow another team to enter the league, and they're compensated for that.

Are you saying otherwise?




"Expansion fees would be shared among owners, who would not have to share that money with players. That makes the admission of new franchises an attractive prospect to many existing teams. Although the 2017-18 season has been presumed to be the target date, Bettman said that is not necessarily the case."
NHL affirms it will get hefty fees from potential expansion teams

Sorry, but the NHL constitution trumps an article in the LA times. I dug up the quotes the last time I corrected you on this, I don't have the patience to do so again, so you can search for a copy of the constitution if you want.

Media saying the money goes to the owners is just an easy albeit inaccurate way to drive home that it is not shared 50/50. There are other revenue sources for the org that aren't part of the HRR split but you would never say they aren't revenue for the org.

What is true is expansion fees aren't considered HRR so they don't impact the Cap or Escrow, which is how the NHL achieves it's 50/50 split, which just happens to be the same as cost savings; there is no obligation to split savings with players, or to reinvest them in the org in any way, just like expansion fees.

 

[tardigrade81]

We’re saving up for the years of unparalleled success.

We have many of those years to come. Although we can hold out hope that Nilsson will pull a Patrick Roy and take us to the playoffs each year!

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

We needed Condon gone anyways to make sure the kids had all the opportunities in Belleville... He also had negative value.

The extra cap hit from Callahan also makes sure that we can sell off at the deadline without worrying about the cap floor.

I hate that we are a terrible team with an ass hole of an owner. This trade isn't the one to be that angry about though.

 

[stempniaksen]

We needed Condon gone anyways to make sure the kids had all the opportunities in Belleville... He also had negative value.

The extra cap hit from Callahan also makes sure that we can sell off at the deadline without worrying about the cap floor.

I hate that we are a terrible team with an ass hole of an owner. This trade isn't the one to be that angry about though.

I've seen this argument before and I just don't get it. There was nothing stopping the team from carrying Condon as the 3rd goalie in the NHL or sending him to the minors and treating him the same way. We also could have loaned him to a team in Europe and carried his cap hit. Just because he's on the payroll doesn't mean the team has any obligation to give him meaningful minutes.

 

[BatherSeason]

We needed Condon gone anyways to make sure the kids had all the opportunities in Belleville

Then you just give the kids the opportunities. Its not hard. The organization isn't forced to play him.

 

[bert]

Ok so when we traded Karlsson and we got all that savings why didn't we re-sign Stone? When we got savings from Stone, Duchene, Dzingle why didn't we use those savings to take on comtracts like Zietsev and Callahan and get actual assets instead of sending salary back ? I mean we had all that savings for Ottawa sports and entertainment why didn't they utilize those savings and and get back assets to help rebuild ?

Why haven't they used all that savings to build a scouting department/front office ?

What are we saving up for ?

Why hasnt the media asked Pierre Dorion this question? Also hilarious clip haha.

 

[TheDebater]

I believe that it has become clear that Eugene Melnyk's personal financial situation is, to put it kindly, in disarray. It is clear that he has become discombobulated and is no longer in the same ambitious mindset that he was when he first purchased the Ottawa Senators franchise. Lest we forget, Melnyk had no quarrels when it came to spending at or near the cap, as at the time, it remained within his financial range and personal budget. His failures as a husband and businessman have led Melnyk to the point he is today, where his only source of true income is the Senators and the CTC arena.

There is no doubt that Melnyk wanted to bring a winning team to the city, but a feud with the city and a bitterness towards the fanbase has struck a personal cord with the owner. He is no longer attempting to hide his financial destitution and is holding the team hostage in a strife he will ultimately lose, once he is compelled to sell the team. In summation, my belief is Melnyk the hockey fan is broken on the inside, and is devastated that it has come to this, whereas Melnyk the businessman is still clawing at the walls of the bastille that is slowly closing unto him.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

So I guess you have seen something from Melnyk to make you believe he will actually re invest those savings into the team. I must have missed that.

Logic dictates that the 3 million that is not being paid to Condon, frees up about 2 million this season, that could see it's way to White, when he is signed.

That is how a Business, like SS&E (Senators Sports & Entertainment) operates.

Don't know why some people still think that EM is sitting in his office signing cheques from his personal account, to pay anything and every thing connected with the Franchise.

SS&E generates revenues from ticket sales, from TV/Radio broadcasting rights, Arena naming rights & in house sponsorship deals and other streams of revenues..... and that money is then used to pay the expenses of SS&E, such as player salaries, travel costs, game day staff and all other expenses.

Anyone who has ever operated a business would know these basic standard operating procedures.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Sports teams are usually treated as luxuries and assets for owners, not primary revenue streams. Melnyks’s way of operating this team is the exception, not the rule.

Most NHL teams probably don’t turn in a profit after debt expenses, but they still spend.

If his purpose of owning an NHL team is to turn in an after-debt income every year, he’s a moron plain and simple, especially with all the debt he has tied to the team (his fault).

 

[branch]

Logic dictates that the 3 million that is not being paid to Condon, frees up about 2 million this season, that could see it's way to White, when he is signed.

That is how a Business, like SS&E (Senators Sports & Entertainment) operates.

Don't know why some people still think that EM is sitting in his office signing cheques from his personal account, to pay anything and every thing connected with the Franchise.

SS&E generates revenues from ticket sales, from TV/Radio broadcasting rights, Arena naming rights & in house sponsorship deals and other streams of revenues..... and that money is then used to pay the expenses of SS&E, such as player salaries, travel costs, game day staff and all other expenses.

Anyone who has ever operated a business would know these basic standard operating procedures.

If this is your logic then why didn't they allocate the Karlsson, Stone, Dzingel and Duchene savings to try and improve the team by not sending liabilities back to their trading partners?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Sorry, but the NHL constitution trumps an article in the LA times. I dug up the quotes the last time I corrected you on this, I don't have the patience to do so again, so you can search for a copy of the constitution if you want.

I have no recollection of your "quotes", and I've heard an read numerous times that expansion fees go directly to the Owners, and not the the franchise, such as SS&E in Ottawa's case.

Yes the owners can transfer the money into the business he he or she so chooses, but they are not obligated to do so.

Again, I've read and heard (radio) many many times, that this is the case regarding expansion fees.


perhaps @ianmendes could shed some light on this?

 

[BatherSeason]

I've seen this argument before and I just don't get it.

This seems to be the argument that the media has been told to roll with. In my 20 minutes in the car during my lunch break, I heard Steve Lloyd mention the "crowded crease" as the reason for the trade at least twice.

 

[Micklebot]

I have no recollection of your "quotes", and I've heard an read numerous times that expansion fees go directly to the Owners, and not the the franchise, such as SS&E in Ottawa's case.

Yes the owners can transfer the money into the business he he or she so chooses, but they are not obligated to do so.

Again, I've read and heard (radio) many many times, that this is the case regarding expansion fees.


perhaps @ianmendes could shed some light on this?

Selective amnesia can be a pain, feel free to use google to try and find a copy of the constitution. But if that proves to difficult, NHL.com's article on the expansion to Vegas said:

The League will receive a $500 million expansion fee from Bill Foley, the billionaire businessman who spearheaded the Las Vegas expansion bid and will be the franchise's principal owner. The $500 million will be distributed equally among the existing 30 teams

Source

Or Forbes, which wrote:

"Our income statements include revenue team owners get from non-NHL events at their arena, but do not include the expansion fee from the Knights that was divvied out to the other 30 teams in the league."

source

In the end though, the authority you should appeal to in order to settle the debate should not be a member of the media, not even if he's a credible guy like Mendes, a financial specialist like Forbes, or one that works for the league like Dan Rosen the latter two I've quoted, but the constitution which sets out the authorities of the league.

So forgive me if I take what you've heard on the radio with a grain of salt. The need to get the idea across, but typically aren't going to go into the pedantic details that have little relevance to their story.

 

[Philadelphia Collins]

The worst part about Melnyk/Dorion trading for all these contracts that have a higher cap hit than actual salary, or picking up LTIR guys is that none of that savings will be put back into Hockey Ops.

He’s not going to hire more scouts or spend the money on the CTC experience, he’s spending below the cap basement in real dollars and pocketing the change. It’s absolutely unbelievable that he owns a sports team

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

I've seen this argument before and I just don't get it. There was nothing stopping the team from carrying Condon as the 3rd goalie in the NHL or sending him to the minors and treating him the same way. We also could have loaned him to a team in Europe and carried his cap hit. Just because he's on the payroll doesn't mean the team has any obligation to give him meaningful minutes.

Then you just give the kids the opportunities. Its not hard. The organization isn't forced to play him.

Sure, but if he's been a good professional, why not try and at least get him game time somewhere else? Sending him off to Europe seems like a dink move, as does leaving him riding the bus in the ahl only to have him sit in the stands.

 

[stempniaksen]

Sure, but if he's been a good professional, why not try and at least get him game time somewhere else? Sending him off to Europe seems like a dink move, as does leaving him riding the bus in the ahl only to have him sit in the stands.

He's not getting "game time" in Tampa either. His contract is too prohibitive, he was always going to end up riding the bus in some capacity. He's basically already been told by Brisebois he's (at best) the AHL backup behind Wedgewood (and that's only if they find a taker for Domingue).

Condon probably has a better shot of rehabilitating his career in Europe in all honesty, but that's obviously a big move for his family.

I just don't think the Sens should be in the business of doing any of these guys favours at the cost of a lesser return (not that I'm saying this is what happened in this case, as the move was quite obviously financially driven).

 

[Xspyrit]

Because of comments like this, tell me where in this comment he mentions that this was to save money:

""We believe we have the right mix of goaltenders both for the upcoming season and the future," Dorion said. "We are pleased with how our young goaltenders have been developing in Belleville, so this trade allows us to focus on continuing their growth at a proper pace while keeping two established goaltenders here in Ottawa. Our cap flexibility allowed us to proceed with this trade, which will also benefit us as we continue making adjustments to create a hardworking, exciting team."

It's insulting to the fanbase to be this disingenuous. It's just another case (one of many) where we have made trades to save money and have made no comment whatsoever as to the real reason behind the trades.

It is what it is, I don’t I endorse it but it’s exactly like politics or companies high management. They’d rather find all kind of excuses rather than say the sad truth about budget cuts. It just doesn’t sound well in the medias.

But why do people need to be told what is going on if they actually know what is going on? I’ll never understand that. Personally, I don’t care about what is being said in the medias, it’s mostly propaganda sensationalistic crap. No one is going to tell me what to think; I’m able to do that myself once I sort out the facts.

That being said, this move is excellent because absolutely no need for Condon, he was actually in the way, so saving 2 more millions for a franchise struggling financially while getting rid of him is a clear cut win. I am not sure why people complain here. It’s not like selling stars in their prime for picks and prospects because we don’t want to pay signing bonuses

The org is actually in a pretty good spot right now if the team is sold. No long-term contracts (except Zaitsev) + very deep farm + likely top-4 pick this season + fans absolutely desperate for a reason to believe again. Toss in the possible excitement of a new arena under new ownership, and you can see how things could turn around very quickly if Melnyk sells.

Exactly, nothing more to say. There’s one big problem in this organization and it’s the most powerful person, the owner. We know now that pretty much everything runs through him. People spend a lot of time crapping on a lot of people working for him but when your boss possess the absolute decisional power, there’s just so much you can do. It’s either you follow the instructions or you’ll have to look for another job. Dorion is making the best salary of his life. Yes it’s awful to be Melnyk’s puppet but frankly he has to think of his family first. Nothing is even close to be as important

All we can do is wait and hope that Melnyk finally sells this team. As any businessman, he wants the best ROI as possible, so all these moves, that we like it or not are setting the table. Unfortunately, Lebreton being underway would help immensely but it is what it is. In the meantime, accumulating young assets is the best thing we can do and thankfully Dorion is good at that

 

[Xspyrit]

As I am reading this thread, I’m really wondering why so many posters talk about cap space when talking about Condon... cap space has been irrelevant for Ottawa for a while...

Also that “it doesn’t make sense” to take a 5th instead of a 3rd if all it does is saving 2 M$... Well, it shouldn’t be a surprise anymore that this money (real money, not money in a video game) is much more valuable than a better pick, at least to Melnyk and HIS team.

It sucks but that shows how « poor » the Ottawa Melnykers are at running a NHL franchise right now. The cap has been rising a lot in the last decade, Melnyk just can’t/don’t want to follow that rise anymore

Come in peace, but a serious question.

Why the hell would any fan continue to support this team financially with season tickets or going to games? Drive this moron out.

It’s beyond obvious this organization is influenced in a negative way by a meddling owner who either cannot, or isn’t willing to spend the appropriate amount of money needed to make an NHL team successful.

My thoughts is that a “Financial boycott” can only make things worse and slow down the process of him selling the team. He’s a businessman, he invested in this team and wants to make the best ROI possible. What is needed is the Lebreton project to work out as soon as possible.

Sens are not competing next year, I’d rather see Melnyk spend as less as possible and clear out some debt as much as possible than see him struggle even more financially so we’re stuck with him longer