Silver Seven Senators Remain at Odds with Outside Scouting Consensus

AchtzehnBaby

Global Matador
Mar 28, 2013
15,022
8,906
Hazeldean Road
Sens Remain at Odds with Outside Scouts

Ottawa continues to take the unconventional approach

Vitriol directed at the aforementioned pundits by fans, media, or the team alike would be pointless. A ton of hard work goes into developing this analysis year-round, and even the so-called “internet scouts” who don’t necessarily work in a professional capacity do painstaking research on these players — for a draft that is in large part a crapshoot, at the end of the day
All of this is to say that despite the relative success of their recent drafts, a clear disconnect remains between the Senators and the scouting community at large. The team has seemingly embraced a philosophy of straying from the consensus to draft players that fit their organizational vision, and can help build the identity of a team that is difficult to play against
.
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
14,716
6,804
I be can’t believe Scott Wheeler is taking his work over Trent Manns - at some point you think you are an NHL scout.

the lists were all over the place, I can’t even believe these guys are getting clownish about “Post Draft Analysis” - so sensitive rankings players that didn’t even play this year.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,708
9,652
Montreal, Canada
Ok who cares about “internet scouts”. What about McKenzie?

People say team lists are different but it looked like other teams were near consensus.

I don't recall seeing a NHL team going off the board in that fashion on basically all their picks. It's like they saw some things in these kids that nobody else saw (or almost)

If they end up having another good to great draft, that'll be a very big statement to their expertise.
 
Last edited:

Knave

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
21,627
2,226
Ottawa
With the limited scouting due to covid, it sort of looked like this year they just drafted guys they were comfortable with regardless of rankings or worrying about stacking an extra pick or two by trading down. That's probably reasonable given the circumstances.

Yeah I tend to agree with this. I'm not a big follower of prospects throughout the years but I knew literally no one in this draft. Usually I know the top few players coming from the OHL.

I really do wonder how many of the critics in the media actually put in serious scouting time. I wonder how much teams like Ottawa were able to scout. I'm guessing bigger organizations and the NHL itself likely have the resources to get into arenas and watch games but I doubt the Senators would have had nearly as much access.

I just feel like this draft is a throwaway and I'd be concerned with anyone who had really strong feelings about who should be drafted where because this year more than ever it's guesswork and gambling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EdSoxFan

Burrowsaurus

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
42,070
15,799
Ok who cares about “internet scouts”. What about McKenzie?



I don't recall seeing a NHL team going off the board in that fashion on basically all their picks. They basically saw in some kids some things that most just didn't see.

If they end up having another good to great draft, that'll be a very big statement to their expertise.
Absolutely
 

Mingus Dew

Microphone Assassin
Oct 7, 2013
5,576
4,127
It’s pretty hard to beat the market. Harder still to do it consistently.

Hopefully this isn’t the year that the other shoe drops.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrEasy

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,145
30,370
People say team lists are different but it looked like other teams were near consensus.
I haven't checked.

That said, it's not like this year the scouting team forgot how to evaluate talent, so assuming all teams were affected similarly by Covid restrictions, why would our list be drastically different when other years it typically isn't.

I think Hale showed a list of how few games combined our picks played. I wonder how that compares to other teams. I suspect part of our difference was based on not letting small samples effect our ranks as much.

Whatever it is we did different, hopefully it works out.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
15,229
10,452
Yukon
Yeah I tend to agree with this. I'm not a big follower of prospects throughout the years but I knew literally no one in this draft. Usually I know the top few players coming from the OHL.

I really do wonder how many of the critics in the media actually put in serious scouting time. I wonder how much teams like Ottawa were able to scout. I'm guessing bigger organizations and the NHL itself likely have the resources to get into arenas and watch games but I doubt the Senators would have had nearly as much access.

I just feel like this draft is a throwaway and I'd be concerned with anyone who had really strong feelings about who should be drafted where because this year more than ever it's guesswork and gambling.
Im sure it stings some followers to see them go as off the board as they did, but thats how I saw it anyways. I don't know enough to criticize the picks themselves, but it may have been a bit of a missed opportunity to not trade down and can see why some are a little miffed on that specifically.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cosmix

Burrowsaurus

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
42,070
15,799
I haven't checked.

That said, it's not like this year the scouting team forgot how to evaluate talent, so assuming all teams were affected similarly by Covid restrictions, why would our list be drastically different when other years it typically isn't.

I think Hale showed a list of how few games combined our picks played. I wonder how that compares to other teams. I suspect part of our difference was based on not letting small samples effect our ranks as much.

Whatever it is we did different, hopefully it works out.
I’m not saying it was bad or good. I’m just saying there’s a bit more than “it was covid every teams list was WILDLY different”. Looks like our list was a tad more different than others lol. Which is cool
 

senators101

Registered User
Jan 17, 2008
10,848
7,002
T.O.
Our scouts have earned the right to draft whoever they feel is best for the team long-term, even if it strays from the consensus picks. I trust them but hope they made the right decisions, otherwise we could certainly be looking back at this draft and question why they went so far on their own.
 

Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
65,011
49,543
I think this is the year to be outside the box. Identify some players that may be undervalued due to lack of scouting opportunities and playing time. I am glad it was us making these kind of moves .. I have been a proponent of Mann's draft work so we are going to have to wait and see if we indeed get a couple gems here. I'm betting we will. Skating , Size, Compete level.. seem to be high on the list. I know IQ is as well. I like the direction we are going.
 

PlayOn

Registered User
Jun 22, 2010
1,282
1,467
I don’t particularly understand why following the consensus even matters especially in a draft like this. I think it was Pronman before who called it the worst draft since 2002. If it’s the worst draft in almost 20 years, is it not probably worthwhile to just swing on some less known players and hope for the best?

We’ll see how this one plays out but I don’t mind the approach.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,288
8,100
Victoria
With limited games to watch it makes a ton of sense to me to draft guys that showed glimpses of high level skills but demonstrate all of the personality traits that a young man would need to realize that talent.

Our scouts look at high character as the magic ingredient that leads players to reach their potential instead of missing the mark. The higher the determination and work ethic, the higher the chance the kid bulldozes his way to the NHL.

I love how they picked guys based on the things that they could absolutely evaluate instead of picking based solely on a hope and a dream.
 

TheDebater

Peace be upon you
Mar 10, 2016
6,251
6,000
Ottawa
The only list I generally give some credibility to is Bob Mackenzie's and he had Boucher ranked in the 1st round at #29 I think. Factor in the Covid pandemic angle with the limited games for viewing and it is highly, highly likely that in a normal, full year, Boucher could have shot up the rankings to a top 10 spot.
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
14,716
6,804
I don’t particularly understand why following the consensus even matters especially in a draft like this. I think it was Pronman before who called it the worst draft since 2002. If it’s the worst draft in almost 20 years, is it not probably worthwhile to just swing on some less known players and hope for the best?

We’ll see how this one plays out but I don’t mind the approach.

I like the deft too. some drafts getting an impact 40 point player with a top 10 is a win. Boucher could be more then that but even his low end is a bigger meaner Conner brown a little earlier in his career and that’s a pretty good player - guys like this okay to win when they are in a wolf pack.
 

playasRus

Registered User
Mar 21, 2009
9,284
2,015
This is like being enraged at your partner's fantasy football picks because they didn't go with consensus. Except fantasy consensus is more backed by data than drafting a bunch of 17-19 year olds - yet is still a mega crapshoot with injuries, development, regression...etc.

You can go back and criticize 2-3 years later if Sillinger becomes heads (or at all significnatly) above/better than Boucher.

But just go back to last year about people crying on the internet and Pinto and Jarventie only to totally 180 a few months later. Or look at how Senators were lambasted for EK at 15 ... only to end up with the franchises best defenseman in history.

Chill every body, stress is going to kill yall early if you let something as meaningless as a billion dollar company's selection of a teenager cause you so much angst.
 

BankStreetParade

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
6,686
4,118
Ottawa

What does this scouting staff have to do to earn the benefit of the doubt? I mean what's the realistic success rate people expect from our draft picks that satisfies this fanbase?

Look at the haul of prospects they've brought in in the last few years: Formenton, Batherson, Tkachuk, JBD, Crookshank, Mandolese, Thomson, Pinto, Sogaard, Stutzle, Sanderson, Greig, Kleven, Sokolov, Merilainen in addition to identifying Brannstrom and Norris in trades.

7 of the guys listed are already in the NHL with 5 more 1-2 years away and the others potentially in that timeframe too
 
  • Like
Reactions: albator71

BankStreetParade

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
6,686
4,118
Ottawa
This is like being enraged at your partner's fantasy football picks because they didn't go with consensus. Except fantasy consensus is more backed by data than drafting a bunch of 17-19 year olds - yet is still a mega crapshoot with injuries, development, regression...etc.

You can go back and criticize 2-3 years later if Sillinger becomes heads (or at all significnatly) above/better than Boucher.

But just go back to last year about people crying on the internet and Pinto and Jarventie only to totally 180 a few months later. Or look at how Senators were lambasted for EK at 15 ... only to end up with the franchises best defenseman in history.

Chill every body, stress is going to kill yall early if you let something as meaningless as a billion dollar company's selection of a teenager cause you so much angst.
The Zadina booster club sure doesn't have much to say anymore these days...
 

R2010

Registered User
May 23, 2011
1,913
972
Just like writing off Brady on draft day was premature, so is writing off Zadina now.

sure Tkachuk over Zadina was a good pick. Thomson was a bad pick. Our scouting staff is not perfect. They are good but they make mistakes. Thomson is a great example of reaching for a player when the consensus picks all look better now.
 

Korpse

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 5, 2010
20,725
9,570
sure Tkachuk over Zadina was a good pick. Thomson was a bad pick. Our scouting staff is not perfect. They are good but they make mistakes. Thomson is a great example of reaching for a player when the consensus picks all look better now.

I don't understand. There's literally one guy that was taken after Thomson, that is an established NHL player at this point. We are two years removed from that draft.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Simplicity

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->