TSN: Senators lose 1st round pick in '24, '25 or '26 as penalty for Dadonov fiasco

[Bileur]

Bettman also didn’t say no to reducing the punishment it from a 1st round, all he said was “that’s not my focus at the moment” so when push comes to shove Ottawa could see an appeal win

They need to let it slide for a few years, let someone else get a black eye in the media and then quietly ask for an appeal like the third week of July.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Prior to the start of the NHL draft lottery, McPhee should get to pee pee slap Dorion live on Sportsnet and Sportsnet 360.

They could build up to it like they do with the draft lottery, with shots of Dadonov in his home watching and waiting to react to the Peepee slap, and interviews with everybody who was involved outlining why peepee slap will happen, and what they expect. They could have an interview live via satellite from Shawville where Tim Murray could outline his experiences with peepee slaps and how he thinks Dorion may handle it.

Then after the peepee slap they can interview McPhee and he can give the typical happy but guarded interview that GMs give after they win the draft lottery. A panelist led by Elliott Friedman can break down the peepee slap.

 

[GCK]

Dorion never lied, he was incompetent.

If he lied, he'd have been served a lengthy suspension from the league.

Like the Coyotes, nobody was suspended because after the league investigation was completed, gross negligence, rather than malicious intent, was the reason for the debacle.

Maybe he lied, everybody thinks he lied, but it’s impossible to prove.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Maybe he lied, everybody thinks he lied, but it’s impossible to prove.

All evidence from all of the people actually in the know points to negligence, not deceit.

Of course people who dislike PD are pushing the lying narrative, but it just isn’t what happened.

 

[GCK]

All evidence from all of the people actually in the know points to negligence, not deceit.

Of course people who dislike PD are pushing the lying narrative, but it just isn’t what happened.

Feel free to post the evidence that it was negligence and not a lie.

 

[Xspyrit]

I kind of want the team to just sacrifice this year's as long as it's out of the top 7 or so. Move past it so we dont dwell on it and don't risk another byram situation where we risk it being a very high lottery pick.

No, you delay the pick as later as possible.

A 1st round pick this year or next could end up helping you during your window of contention.

And if by 2025-26, the team is still at risk at giving up a high pick... then you go FULL rebuild again...

2025-26 is when our first should be the latest. It has to.

I could see the NHL throwing the Senators a bone at the draft and letting them give up the Boston pick if the Senators still own it come the deadline to declare.

They revised the punishment with New Jersey, where the punishment was later revised with new ownership in mind. The Boston pick is trending to be in the 25-32 type range. It's still a steep punishment, but they would be throwing Ottawa a bone.

Also, Ottawa owned the pick at the time the ruling was issued. So it wouldn't be a scenario where they Senators traded back knowing they could give up a worse pick.

It would be a reasonable compromise to let Ottawa give up the Boston pick.

That would still be terrible in a sense because we paid 7th OA + 39th OA to acquire that Boston's pick lol

 

[KingAlfie11]

Feel free to post the evidence that it was negligence and not a lie.

Feel free to post the evidence that it was a lie not negligence. Wow this is fun!

 

[bert]

Feel free to post the evidence that it was negligence and not a lie.

He quite clearly bold face lied. There isnt any way this goes the way it does based on purely negligence. If so it would have been resolved sooner and the penalty wouldnt have been as severe.

 

[BondraTime]

He quite clearly bold face lied. There isnt any way this goes the way it does based on purely negligence. If so it would have been resolved sooner and the penalty wouldnt have been as severe.

If it was found that it was intentional, or lying, Dorion would have been served a very long suspension from the league. Intentional wrongdoing would result in individual suspensions, fines and draft picks; gross incompetence would result in the pick(s) that they ended up losing

Just like the case with the Coyotes, this one absolutely effected the competitive aspects of the game. It hindered 2 teams on completing trades for each team in season. Losing draft picks over incompetence sucks, but was warranted, without a doubt. Steep, but warranted.

"The NHL Constitution gives Bettman the ability to deprive a team of draft picks if conduct is found to affect the competitive aspects of the game."

"The league opted not to discipline any individual members of the organization involved in the situation because Bettman believes it was gross negligence rather than intentional wrongdoing."

Coyotes lose two picks for combine violations - TSN.ca

The National Hockey League sanctioned the Arizona Coyotes on Wednesday for violating the NHL's Combine Testing Policy during the 2019-20 season, announcing that the club will forfeit its second-round pick in the 2020 NHL Draft and their first-round pick in the 2021 NHL Draft.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Micklebot]

He quite clearly bold face lied. There isnt any way this goes the way it does based on purely negligence. If so it would have been resolved sooner and the penalty wouldnt have been as severe.

As Bondra pointed out, Dorion not facing any direct sanctions from the league suggests they could not prove he lied. I would think, and hope, if evidence existed that he outright lied, they would fine him directly, just like they fine coaches when they overly criticize officiating, or how they fined Burke for tampering.

 

[GCK]

Feel free to post the evidence that it was a lie not negligence. Wow this is fun!

I’m not the one that claimed there was evidence, just the opposite actually.

 

[Micklebot]

I’m not the one that claimed there was evidence, just the opposite actually.

No fine, no suspension, a 73 page report from the NHL that Andlauer said showed we were negligent?

I mean, maybe he did lie, but right now, the actions of the league and the new owner suggest he was just incompetent.

 

[GCK]

No fine, no suspension, a 73 page report from the NHL that Andlauer said showed we were negligent?

I mean, maybe he did lie, but right now, the actions of the league and the new owner suggest he was just incompetent.

I postulated that maybe he lied, most think he lied but it’s likely impossible to prove. Can’t suspend someone without solid proof or you risk a lawsuit.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Feel free to post the evidence that it was negligence and not a lie.

Well, He was allowed to resign by Andlauer. Andlauer made it clear that was the result of negligence, and the league punished the team for negligence instead of punishing the GM for lying.

It’s pretty obvious that it was gross negligence, but people tend to see what they want to see, and Dorion is much maligned in here.

One article I remember reading talked about how the list was submitted just under the deadline. Very possibly Dorion checked earlier on the deadline day, saw it wasn’t submitted, and ran with that rather than checking in again after the deadline passed.

Either way, don’t let me get in the way of whatever you think happened, just challenging the narrative with common sense.

 

[Ice-Tray]

He quite clearly bold face lied. There isnt any way this goes the way it does based on purely negligence. If so it would have been resolved sooner and the penalty wouldnt have been as severe.

You crack me up man, your opinions are always irrefutable facts!

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Well, He was allowed to resign by Andlauer. Andlauer made it clear that was the result of negligence, and the league punished the team for negligence instead of punishing the GM for lying.

It’s pretty obvious that it was gross negligence, but people tend to see what they want to see, and Dorion is much maligned in here.

One article I remember reading talked about how the list was submitted just under the deadline. Very possibly Dorion checked earlier on the deadline day, saw it wasn’t submitted, and ran with that rather than checking in again after the deadline passed.

Either way, don’t let me get in the way of whatever you think happened, just challenging the narrative with common sense.

...and if he "flat out lied", it would be out there in the news. There is no sense in keeping under wraps.

 

[Larionov]

He quite clearly bold face lied. There isnt any way this goes the way it does based on purely negligence. If so it would have been resolved sooner and the penalty wouldnt have been as severe.

Look at who Dorion's boss was. What kind of culture did he create around that building? Does it really surprise anyone that Eugene Melnyk's hockey guy thought that it was ok to fudge the truth?

 

[Senator Stanley]

All evidence from all of the people actually in the know points to negligence, not deceit.

Of course people who dislike PD are pushing the lying narrative, but it just isn’t what happened.

People who dislike Dorion could just as easily push the "he's completely incompetent" negligence narrative. It's not like there's one nice narrative and one mean one.

 

[Snowwy]

You crack me up man, your opinions are always irrefutable facts!

I know right and the game has passed him by.

 

[HSF]

All evidence from all of the people actually in the know points to negligence, not deceit.

Of course people who dislike PD are pushing the lying narrative, but it just isn’t what happened.

Dorion was poor at his job regardless as proven by this

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

It's just as likely Dorion lied. The findings of the NHL are irrelevant. Proving someone knew they were commiting a crime is extremely difficult. Especially outside of the justice system, where less tools exist.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Just to be pedantic, you can't unknowingly lie, lying requires the intent to deceive.

Also, we don't know that this has never happened before, we only know that nobody was caught for it before. It's possible in the past, a GM mistakenly thought a NTC was invalid, traded a player, and nothing came of it because the acquiring team never tried to subsequently move them.

Lastly, it doesn't sound like the NHL has any interest in improving the process, I guess if you mean on our end, the Sens will improve their process, that's probably true.

The "unknowing lie" is him saying he knew the status of the NTC: he didn't know and acted as if he did. I supposed I used it as a flourish.

Yes, this is the first time that this happening has caused a player to annul a League approved trade. Like you said, it may have happened before but if no one was harmed, no one was the wiser, a nonissue.

I had read that Daily mentionned he had suggested teams submit the addendums to be put in the central registry? I had assumed that his choice of word hinted that the League couldn't force teams to. Still, the League has acknowledged there was/is an administrative gap and spoken about new "measures" put in place.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

People who dislike Dorion could just as easily push the "he's completely incompetent" negligence narrative. It's not like there's one nice narrative and one mean one.

Exactly. I don't think Dorion would be smart enough to come up with a scheme to lie about a NTC to somehow get a deal done. Especially when we didn't get much of anything for him anyways. Vegas won that trade both with and without any NTCs.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Feel free to post the evidence that it was negligence and not a lie.

Feel free to post the evidence it was a lie and not negligence.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Shutting this down.

If any facts come out in the news... we can revisit.