Management Senators and League Wide Revenue

Stylizer1

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Jun 12, 2009
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I disagree with that. You see St.Louis showing they won’t pay full market price etc to keep AP. Smart organizations don’t make bad deals loaded with negative value that handy cap them for years.
Ap is not on the same level as Karlsson. Karlsson was the captain and was the key kogg of the team. What happened in SJ is he is not that there and it's a whole new system where either he stands out or finds his role. The money they paid him was not a smart move where as in Ottawa it would have been fine if the organization was run better.
 

Sweatred

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Ap is not on the same level as Karlsson. Karlsson was the captain and was the key kogg of the team. What happened in SJ is he is not that there and it's a whole new system where either he stands out or finds his role. The money they paid him was not a smart move where as in Ottawa it would have been fine if the organization was run better.

I disagree - the money would not have been fine. He will struggle to put up any positive value over all 8 years of the contract. SJ will prob buy him out at some point but Ottawa doesn’t have that luxury.

Build a lineup with $8 for Chabot, $11.5 for EK. Add Brady, Z, and White. You’ll be shocked how little $$$ is left to go around. Those players cost around $35+ million or half the team payroll. That leaves $35+ for 17 others.. or $2/player unless you think fans are providing $145 revenue for EM to spend $80+
 
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Stylizer1

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Jun 12, 2009
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Actually i kinda think it was the start of a trend

Did NY sign Tavares? He walked for nothing. How's that working out for NY? and for Toronto?

Did St L just tell Pietrangelo to explore free agency?

Would SJ like a do over on the EK trade?

I think the NHL model is shifting and i think we were early on that shift. A point I've made here a few times
Ottawa's problem is that they could never build a great team with with the core pieces they had. Any organization would have fired the GM after a few seasons but we got 12 seasons of basically the same person managing an internal budget. People are pointing the finger at players way more than they deserve. Murray should have been fired but because of who he was to the city and the NHL he got to retire while running a franchise. When Dohrion took over he was fulfilling Murray's vision by trading for every player Murray had talked about in the past. 1 game away from the Cup finals is what we got for 10 season of that vision and the rest were missing the playoffs or going on a miracle run just to make it.

NY wanted him to stay but Tarvares wanted to go to TO.

STB were a veteran Champion Team with cap issues. I don't know their situation but from the looks of it maybe it's a chess match over money and they don't have lots.

Karlsson to SJ was bad because there is only so much puck to go around.

How many times over the last 10 seasons does one of the top players in the league at their position not get resigned by their team?
 

GCK

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Oct 15, 2018
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Ottawa's problem is that they could never build a great team with with the core pieces they had. Any organization would have fired the GM after a few seasons but we got 12 seasons of basically the same person managing an internal budget. People are pointing the finger at players way more than they deserve. Murray should have been fired but because of who he was to the city and the NHL he got to retire while running a franchise. When Dohrion took over he was fulfilling Murray's vision by trading for every player Murray had talked about in the past. 1 game away from the Cup finals is what we got for 10 season of that vision and the rest were missing the playoffs or going on a miracle run just to make it.

NY wanted him to stay but Tarvares wanted to go to TO.

STB were a veteran Champion Team with cap issues. I don't know their situation but from the looks of it maybe it's a chess match over money and they don't have lots.

Karlsson to SJ was bad because there is only so much puck to go around.

How many times over the last 10 seasons does one of the top players in the league at their position not get resigned by their team?
So what should Murray have done to make the team a winner.
 

Stylizer1

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I disagree - the money would not have been fine. He will struggle to put up any positive value over all 8 years of the contract. SJ will prob buy him out at some point but Ottawa doesn’t have that luxury.

Build a lineup with $8 for Chabot, $11.5 for EK. Add Brady, Z, and White. You’ll be shocked how little $$$ is left to go around. Those players cost around $35+ million or half the team payroll. That leaves $35+ for 17 others.. or $2/player unless you think fans are providing $145 revenue for EM to spend $80+
Chabot probably doesn't get 8 mill if Karlsson is on the team though. The second he was traded Chabot's the new face of the franchise and his agent knows it's time for a pay day. White and Brady were/are in good positions to get more money because all of the Vets in front of them are gone.

This falls back on Melnyks inability to financially support the organization and going cheap in hopes of being Senators 98.

Again, The situation in SJ was different than the one in Ottawa. Karlsson was not a good fit so far in SJ but he was in Ottawa. The problem was Karlsson had history in Ottawa and knew how bad it was. These young players have none of that now and will grow only knowing hockey and no drama.

Better ownership and management makes a better team.
 

Sweatred

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Chabot probably doesn't get 8 mill if Karlsson is on the team though. The second he was traded Chabot's the new face of the franchise and his agent knows it's time for a pay day. White and Brady were/are in good positions to get more money because all of the Vets in front of them are gone.

This falls back on Melnyks inability to financially support the organization and going cheap in hopes of being Senators 98.

Again, The situation in SJ was different than the one in Ottawa. Karlsson was not a good fit so far in SJ but he was in Ottawa. The problem was Karlsson had history in Ottawa and knew how bad it was. These young players have none of that now and will grow only knowing hockey and no drama.

Better ownership and management makes a better team.

I disagree with most of that. Have a good night.
 

GCK

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Oct 15, 2018
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Chabot probably doesn't get 8 mill if Karlsson is on the team though. The second he was traded Chabot's the new face of the franchise and his agent knows it's time for a pay day. White and Brady were/are in good positions to get more money because all of the Vets in front of them are gone.

This falls back on Melnyks inability to financially support the organization and going cheap in hopes of being Senators 98.

Again, The situation in SJ was different than the one in Ottawa. Karlsson was not a good fit so far in SJ but he was in Ottawa. The problem was Karlsson had history in Ottawa and knew how bad it was. These young players have none of that now and will grow only knowing hockey and no drama.

Better ownership and management makes a better team.
I’m pretty sure we would be a crap team with Karlsson. Moving on was the right move even though the team wanted to keep him.
 
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Stylizer1

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I’m pretty sure we would be a crap team with Karlsson. Moving on was the right move even though the team wanted to keep him.
Disagree. At least one other GM should have had the opportunity to assemble a team with out pieces. The only thing preventing it was Melnyk.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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So what should Murray have done to make the team a winner.
Hire a real coach instead of Paddock.

Certainly hiring a better coach than Harrisburg would have won us more games than we did though that team wasn't going to win it all.
 
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Jan 19, 2006
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Our best chance at a Stanley Cup was the 2004-05 season, and the lockout screwed us there.
Our 2nd best chance at a Stanley Cup was the 2005-06 season, and Hasek screwed us there.
 

Sweatred

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Disagree. At least one other GM should have had the opportunity to assemble a team with out pieces. The only thing preventing it was Melnyk.

Take $ 11.5 mil out of our current roster and add EK. We suck.
 
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GCK

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Disagree. At least one other GM should have had the opportunity to assemble a team with out pieces. The only thing preventing it was Melnyk.
But that’s our reality. Can’t blame the GMs for Melnyk’s directives.
 

GCK

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Hire a real coach instead of Paddock.

Certainly hiring a better coach than Harrisburg would have won us more games than we did though that team wasn't going to win it all.
That’s true but 700K doesn’t get many high end coaches.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

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Oct 16, 2006
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I don't think it really matters when looking at isolated contracts that could have theoretically been signed. One Karlsson or one Stone isn't moving the needle (at least with that roster) enough themselves even if they obviously would have provided better quality bridging and guidance than what is there now. Investing in proper coaching or management like the Isles did might be just what they need, but not only is that not in Melnyk's philosophy of paying for quality, but that is a lot to shift from an already league low player budget.

Right or wrong, what they need is a bold strategy that isn't them pretending they can compete financially with the rest of the league. I think they are destined to fail if they don't do something crazy like this. Business as usual won't work and we saw just how held back some Senators teams in the past were with glaring holes that couldn't be filled due to budget, but could have perfectly aligned had the budget been there.

When you're as crippled financially as the Senators/Melnyk appear to be and incapable of spending anywhere close to the cap ceiling (in real dollars), you can be as shrewd as you want to be, but unless you adopt a new bold strategy like I've proposed a few times, you just aren't going to be able to compete spending closer to the floor than the ceiling. Certainly not long term consistently unless basically everything goes your way.

Their only chance at success is to treat it like a constant conveyor belt of players and be absolutely ruthless with trading everyone in anticipation of contracts required. Use your assets while under control as they approach mid to late 20's and trade them all... every single one... no exceptions. Be a dumping ground for mostly paid dead cap that can be used for assets. Any available cash could be used to bring in FA's on short term contracts to either insulate a playoff team, or be trade bait at the deadline if things go south, thus helping to keep the train moving. They would take their lumps along the way and it wouldn't be consistent year to year, but it would at least guarantee they don't need to do complete tear downs with 4 or 5 throwaway seasons like we're seeing now. We know that it won't be long before this group comes to a head too, and they can't afford to keep this band together either, so it's not a Karlsson/Stone thing, it's an anyone that needs to be paid at or close to peak value thing.

There is no "loading up" or "tearing down", it's just a revolving system with no loyalty and certainly no wasted money on retirement donations for bad play like Anderson these last 3 years.

The big guns got the attention, but they can't throw around mid tier money to underachievers willy nilly like Dorion did at times. It adds up and those are the guys you're more likely to be able to replace adequately. It's not perfect, but there are guaranteed to be holes somewhere, so best to be from a non needle mover like Ceci or Smith, etc., not the guys capable of leading the team.
 
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Micklebot

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That’s true but 700K doesn’t get many high end coaches.
We had just come off a scf run and Melnyk was seemingly still open to spending money. We had a ton of season ticket holders (i think that was our record year of 13500) thx to all the years of success. That said, the impact of lockout likely was still being felt so who knows, but we certainly could have shuffled the budget such that more got spent on coaching even if it meant cutting back from somewhere else.

Edit; to be clear, talking about the Paddock year, not Hartsburg
 

Sweatred

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When you say this, I assume you mean taking his own Money, and propping up the franchise.

Do you have any information, on how many NHL owners actually do this?

The richest owner on the league spends about $10 million a year more than our owner - and we’re not even sure how much either pay for lease, taxes, debt etc.
 

GCK

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Oct 15, 2018
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We had just come off a scf run and Melnyk was seemingly still open to spending money. We had a ton of season ticket holders (i think that was our record year of 13500) thx to all the years of success. That said, the impact of lockout likely was still being felt so who knows, but we certainly could have shuffled the budget such that more got spent on coaching even if it meant cutting back from somewhere else.

Edit; to be clear, talking about the Paddock year, not Hartsburg
Fair enough. Paddock was a terrible choice borne from loyalty.
 
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Tnuoc Alucard

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The richest owner on the league spends about $10 million a year more than our owner - and we’re not even sure how much either pay for lease, taxes, debt etc.
Is that 10 mill from his own pocket, or 10 million derived from HRR?
 

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