Sportsnet: Senators’ Dorion talks team’s payroll, off-season moves and 2019-20 optimism

[AchtzehnBaby]

The band on the Titanic were optimists....but it was the folks jumping on the life rafts that survived the sinking.

It's great to have some sort of faith int he organization, but we also need to be realistic.

The guys in the band were not optimistic at all. They accepted their fate and went down with the ship.

I am not on that boat.

Speaking of bands... playing the same song over and over really can’t be good for you.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

The guys in the band were not optimistic at all. They accepted their fate and went down with the ship.

I am not on that boat.

Speaking of bands... playing the same song over and over really can’t be good for you.

...it's a great tune. And the only one worth playing right now. At least, until we get a new DJ and radio station.

 

[Frank8]

I'd just like to say this board is at it's best when communicating in metaphors.

 

[coladin]

I think he is overdoing it with the hosannas for DJ Smith

 

[BonkTastic]

I think he is overdoing it with the hosannas for DJ Smith

What else does the team have to market to the fanbase after the season we just had, and the offseason that was almost universally interpreted as cost-cutting measures rather than hockey decisions? Dorion is, like he always does, trying to deflect the conversation away from the team's glaring problems (the owner, and the financial issues surrounding that owner), and towards the only thing that is really "new" about this team that might actually make a difference.

As usual, it's left to Pierre Dorion to act as season ticket salesman on top of his other duties. Most GMs wouldn't have to sell the fanbase like he constantly is asked to do. I've actually felt more pity for Dorion over the past 2 seasons than anything else. He's been asked to do an impossible job that he's clearly not able to do, nor given any support whatsoever to do, but we're so thin in our front office that not only is he in over his head as a GM, but it sometimes feels like he's doing everything else, too.

 

[Spartachat]

What else does the team have to market to the fanbase after the season we just had, and the offseason that was almost universally interpreted as cost-cutting measures rather than hockey decisions? Dorion is, like he always does, trying to deflect the conversation away from the team's glaring problems (the owner, and the financial issues surrounding that owner), and towards the only thing that is really "new" about this team that might actually make a difference.

As usual, it's left to Pierre Dorion to act as season ticket salesman on top of his other duties. Most GMs wouldn't have to sell the fanbase like he constantly is asked to do. I've actually felt more pity for Dorion over the past 2 seasons than anything else. He's been asked to do an impossible job that he's clearly not able to do, nor given any support whatsoever to do, but we're so thin in our front office that not only is he in over his head as a GM, but it sometimes feels like he's doing everything else, too.

I too at times start to feel sorry for Dorion, but then I see that annoying smug grin and my sentiments fade.

 

[GrantLemons]

Well I would look at the fact that guys like Zaitsev, Hainsey and Ennis wanted to come here and play for him. That in itself is a good sign.

Good point. Would be nice to have coaching off the list of things currently on fire.

 

[coladin]

What else does the team have to market to the fanbase after the season we just had, and the offseason that was almost universally interpreted as cost-cutting measures rather than hockey decisions? Dorion is, like he always does, trying to deflect the conversation away from the team's glaring problems (the owner, and the financial issues surrounding that owner), and towards the only thing that is really "new" about this team that might actually make a difference.

As usual, it's left to Pierre Dorion to act as season ticket salesman on top of his other duties. Most GMs wouldn't have to sell the fanbase like he constantly is asked to do. I've actually felt more pity for Dorion over the past 2 seasons than anything else. He's been asked to do an impossible job that he's clearly not able to do, nor given any support whatsoever to do, but we're so thin in our front office that not only is he in over his head as a GM, but it sometimes feels like he's doing everything else, too.

I actually didn’t mind the rest of his schtick.

The hockey stuff makes sense at this point, I just didn’t like how over the top he was with regards to Smith.

Call it cost cutting, financial motivation, cheap owner, etc...but the hockey moves for this upcoming season , are ok in my books.

They jettisoned crap, expensive players, changed the veteran mix, and have enabled the young players to develop at their own pace

 

[Micklebot]

Good point. Would be nice to have coaching off the list of things currently on fire.

was the fact that Pyatt wanted to play for Boucher a good sign? I think Brassard had nice things to say about him too.

Idk, the only one I put stock in I guess is convincing Zaitsev to waive his NTC, but even then, he wanted out of TO and likely had limited options.

I'm willing to give Smith a chance, I like the look of the group we have so far, but I don't know if we should give credit to him because some former players signed as UFA.

 

[GrantLemons]

was the fact that Pyatt wanted to play for Boucher a good sign? I think Brassard had nice things to say about him too.

Idk, the only one I put stock in I guess is convincing Zaitsev to waive his NTC, but even then, he wanted out of TO and likely had limited options.

I'm willing to give Smith a chance, I like the look of the group we have so far, but I don't know if we should give credit to him because some former players signed as UFA.

Eh, I'm in the same boat, but I guess it could be considered at least a small win that these guys seemingly like DJ. It's going to be different with him being a head coach 'Dad' though, instead of 'cool uncle' assistant coach.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

I hear you, and perhaps context plays a part. I wasn’t nearly as excited, and I personally don’t view that group of kids as being at the same level as our current groups potential.

I was never really stoked on that core as a group to be honest, it just felt more cobbled together than a cohesive unit. In reality I think you only really get that when you’re able to bring a group up together after a rebuild, and we avoided rebuilding like the plague.

EK was one of a kind, the rest are mostly meh compared to TC and BT.

I’m not trying to take anything away from you or Mick, or anyone else who loves that group. I just felt like something was missing. Maybe we could have added it, and maybe we should have, but in the end we didn’t, and it drive off a cliff.

I feel like this group is tight, and will grow together, and we have some awesome prices to add already, from the net out.

I’m more excited, is what it is I suppose.

Yeah, I feel the opposite. In that summer of 2012 I really believed you could project the team out to a true SC contender in a few years.

My projection for this group is a slightly-better-than-bubble playoff team.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Yeah, I feel the opposite. In that summer of 2012 I really believed you could project the team out to a true SC contender in a few years.

My projection for this group is a slightly-better-than-bubble playoff team.

Well sure, but this is just the meat and potatoes of the core group being formed. I’d say that’s high praise for this first group.

The chocolate icing and design bits of that cake will be the big group of picks we have over the next few years, especially the first two rounds at next year’s draft.

The net and D look really solid, and we already seem to have some solid bottom 9 forward prospects.

Then we have Bath and Brown, hopefully they end up top 6, and BT will very likely be the heart and soul, straw that stirs the drink, captain of the team.

Not a bad group of potential, though you’re right right, it’s good ‘so far’ as it isn’t enough.

 

[harrisb]

What else does the team have to market to the fanbase after the season we just had, and the offseason that was almost universally interpreted as cost-cutting measures rather than hockey decisions? Dorion is, like he always does, trying to deflect the conversation away from the team's glaring problems (the owner, and the financial issues surrounding that owner), and towards the only thing that is really "new" about this team that might actually make a difference.

As usual, it's left to Pierre Dorion to act as season ticket salesman on top of his other duties. Most GMs wouldn't have to sell the fanbase like he constantly is asked to do. I've actually felt more pity for Dorion over the past 2 seasons than anything else. He's been asked to do an impossible job that he's clearly not able to do, nor given any support whatsoever to do, but we're so thin in our front office that not only is he in over his head as a GM, but it sometimes feels like he's doing everything else, too.

No pity, he went in to the role with eyes wide open. If he had a spine he would have done any or all of the following: Not accept the job in the first place, stand up to Melnyk on hockey decisions, tell melnyk these roles need to be filled and help him understand the consequences of it not, quit, find another gig.

He's done exactly none of these while doing Euge's bidding and flushing the franchise down the toilet. He owns this just as much as ownership and he's doing the bidding.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

What else does the team have to market to the fanbase after the season we just had, and the offseason that was almost universally interpreted as cost-cutting measures rather than hockey decisions? Dorion is, like he always does, trying to deflect the conversation away from the team's glaring problems (the owner, and the financial issues surrounding that owner), and towards the only thing that is really "new" about this team that might actually make a difference.

As usual, it's left to Pierre Dorion to act as season ticket salesman on top of his other duties. Most GMs wouldn't have to sell the fanbase like he constantly is asked to do. I've actually felt more pity for Dorion over the past 2 seasons than anything else. He's been asked to do an impossible job that he's clearly not able to do, nor given any support whatsoever to do, but we're so thin in our front office that not only is he in over his head as a GM, but it sometimes feels like he's doing everything else, too.

Yeah, I feel sorry for the guy as well.

And as bad / unqualified he is for the hockey decision making part of his job (and I do think he is very bad), he is 1000x worse at the "go on the radio and say things to convince people that everything is going according to plan" part.

 

[Ice-Tray]

No pity, he went in to the role with eyes wide open. If he had a spine he would have done any or all of the following: Not accept the job in the first place, stand up to Melnyk on hockey decisions, tell melnyk these roles need to be filled and help him understand the consequences of it not, quit, find another gig.

He's done exactly none of these while doing Euge's bidding and flushing the franchise down the toilet. He owns this just as much as ownership and he's doing the bidding.

That’s one way of looking at things....

Personally I’d relish the opportunity to try and make the best of this difficult situation, and it’s not even my dream job. I’d take it in a heartbeat. You wouldn’t?

Throwing in the towel is more a sign of a lack of spine, than a continued attempt at making the best of things, and trying your hand at rebuilding an NHL team.

There not a chance in hell that you’d give up being GM of the Sens for the reasons you state, pity is a sentiment that is thoroughly wasted here.

 

[thinkwild]

I always assumed the early 3 yr contract to do a lot of dirty deeds gave Dorion 3 yrs to draft a new team. His ability to do that is what i figured he assumes he will be measured on at the end. Maybe why getting Brannstrom was such a great day for him. Except for that strange comment from Melnyk about the next 6 months being critical for Dorion or something? I dunno anymore

 

[Peptic Balcers]

I too at times start to feel sorry for Dorion, but then I see that annoying smug grin and my sentiments fade.

 

[Tuna99]

Dorion SI good at the important things - drafting, prospect development and evaluation and creating depth within the team. He’s hired two successful coaches (better then murray ever could) and his hockey staff is excellent from the scouts to the coaches.

He’s not good at media because he’s over emotional and goofy, but he’s proud to be the GM of the Sens and he’s got guts. It would of been easy to follow the Murray path is stumbling along promising a winner every season and then blaming the coach when you don’t make the playoffs.

The money isn’t there for him to sign a single player, but with his 2006 payroll ceiling of 47 million he’s done a fantastic job

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Dorion SI good at the important things - drafting, prospect development and evaluation and creating depth within the team. He’s hired two successful coaches (better then murray ever could) and his hockey staff is excellent from the scouts to the coaches.

He’s not good at media because he’s over emotional and goofy, but he’s proud to be the GM of the Sens and he’s got guts. It would of been easy to follow the Murray path is stumbling along promising a winner every season and then blaming the coach when you don’t make the playoffs.

The money isn’t there for him to sign a single player, but with his 2006 payroll ceiling of 47 million he’s done a fantastic job

He's hired two successful coaches? What now?

The idea that Dorion is good at drafting has really metastasized. Think if you really look at that, its not too rosey. Probably more something people need to latch onto in their Stockholm Syndrome not to completely break.

 

[Tuna99]

He's hired two successful coaches? What now?

The idea that Dorion is good at drafting has really metastasized. Think if you really look at that, its not too rosey. Probably more something people need to latch onto in their Stockholm Syndrome not to completely break.

Dorion won as many playoff rounds in his three years as Murray did in his entire GM run in Ottaaa. He stabilized the coaching position by sticking by Boucher and establishing a culture that the players weren’t running the show and the GM and coach would dictate how the organization was run. Backing your coach is important and he had to establish that after the legacy Murray left.

He is widely regarded as a guru at the draft table and to dispute otherwise is silly. Maybe other programs have drafted better - maybe - but his run since the Chabot draft is A+ - but more important then drafting is him having the patience to develop guys in Belleville and not rush them into the NHL like was done before, and he made that one of his mandates, he said he thought the prospects were rushed and they were (Lazar, Ceci, Lehner, Weircoche, Zibby) - what we will see from Batherson, Chabot, Wolanin will be excellent this year and player development will be S much a part of that as drafting

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Dorion won as many playoff rounds in his three years as Murray did in his entire GM run in Ottaaa. He stabilized the coaching position by sticking by Boucher and establishing a culture that the players weren’t running the show and the GM and coach would dictate how the organization was run. Backing your coach is important and he had to establish that after the legacy Murray left.

He is widely regarded as a guru at the draft table and to dispute otherwise is silly. Maybe other programs have drafted better - maybe - but his run since the Chabot draft is A+ - but more important then drafting is him having the patience to develop guys in Belleville and not rush them into the NHL like was done before, and he made that one of his mandates, he said he thought the prospects were rushed and they were (Lazar, Ceci, Lehner, Weircoche, Zibby) - what we will see from Batherson, Chabot, Wolanin will be excellent this year and player development will be S much a part of that as drafting

That first part is hilarious.

As far as Dorion being considered a "guru at the draft table", I'd love to see a credible source back that up. Dorion was running the draft through 2012-14. We turned around our drafting when Bob Lowes was put in charge of it in 2015 and continued to find success there once Mann took over after Lowes left for Vegas. It seems to me that once Dorion was taken off the scouting roster, we began to excel after massively struggling under his guidance.

I've said this before, but what great picks did Dorion make as a regional scout? Seems like Pageau was the only big one (while also convincing the team to not draft Couturier). All the other great picks seemingly came from Lowes, Mann and Forsberg.

It just seems like a fallacy that gets repeated over and over, unless you believe drafting the likes of Kelly Summers qualifies you as a "guru". The 2019 draft has a chance to be a massive bust for Dorion.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Sign Chabot and Tkachuk what they deserve, then fans can maybe be hopeful about the rebuild, Dorion.

 

[Samsquanch]

was the fact that Pyatt wanted to play for Boucher a good sign? I think Brassard had nice things to say about him too.

Idk, the only one I put stock in I guess is convincing Zaitsev to waive his NTC, but even then, he wanted out of TO and likely had limited options.

I'm willing to give Smith a chance, I like the look of the group we have so far, but I don't know if we should give credit to him because some former players signed as UFA.

I mean Pyatt was a fringe NHLer playing in Europe. I would guess that even if he thought Boucher was a creepy moron with an unhealthy obsession with him, he would probably still have taken that call from him to come play in Ottawa. So its not quite the same imo...

And we also know that Dorion has had his eye on DJ for quite a long time now - the Leafs said no last time he was hiring and asked for permission to talk to him. He also said no to Roy, which is a bold move. So I believe he is genuinely happy about his new HC.

DJ was also voted by the players as the AC that most deserves to be a HC in the league (or something to that effect), and has been praised as being amazing at adapting and changing game plans on the fly. Im on board with Dorions hype train for DJ, for now.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Im on board with Dorions hype train for DJ, for now.

You have a few drinks this weekend?

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

That first part is hilarious.

As far as Dorion being considered a "guru at the draft table", I'd love to see a credible source back that up. Dorion was running the draft through 2012-14. We turned around our drafting when Bob Lowes was put in charge of it in 2015 and continued to find success there once Mann took over after Lowes left for Vegas. It seems to me that once Dorion was taken off the scouting roster, we began to excel after massively struggling under his guidance.

I've said this before, but what great picks did Dorion make as a regional scout? Seems like Pageau was the only big one (while also convincing the team to not draft Couturier). All the other great picks seemingly came from Lowes, Mann and Forsberg.

It just seems like a fallacy that gets repeated over and over, unless you believe drafting the likes of Kelly Summers qualifies you as a "guru". The 2019 draft has a chance to be a massive bust for Dorion.

Any kind of objective review of the Sens drafting the past 10 years or so shows it to be okay at best.