Sportsnet: Senators’ Dorion talks team’s payroll, off-season moves and 2019-20 optimism

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I'm a lot less concerned about the caliber of players Chabot and Tkachuk will be, than I am about them staying in Ottawa long term. Nothing I've seen tells me they can fork out 10's of millions in bonus cash up front for these guys. Forgive me for being pessimistic about this after seeing trade after trade that has picks thrown in for relatively small financial considerations such as bonuses paid.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I'm a lot less concerned about the caliber of players Chabot and Tkachuk will be, than I am about them staying in Ottawa long term. Nothing I've seen tells me they can fork out 10's of millions in bonus cash up front for these guys.

We will know more later than sooner.

If anyone of the White, K-chuck, or Chabot - 'the core'- are not signed long term, all bets are off.

For now, we just tread water... and wait.


(Dorion at the helm)

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

We will know more later than sooner.

If anyone of the White, K-chuck, or Chabot 'core' are not signed longer term, all bets are off.

For now, we just tread water... and wait.

Pretty much.

After everything we've seen, I will be absolutely shocked to see Melnyk sign off on the contract I'm assuming it takes to lock up Chabot.

 

[Cosmix]

Every GM in the NHL would take Tkachuk over Gaudreau, that’s not even a debate. Id take him over Ovechkin. He’s equal with Marchand, and this year he’ll surpass him

You make very audacious predictions which undermines your credibility.

However at this point in time I suspect there would be some teams that would trade Ovechkin for Tkachuk because Ovechkin’s career is almost over and Tkachuk’s has just begun.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Pretty much.

After everything we've seen, I will be absolutely shocked to see Melnyk sign off on the contract I'm assuming it takes to lock up Chabot.

They have to. I can't see them not doing it. I will delete my account if Chabot is not signed.

 

[Cosmix]

Pierre Dorion would also not be "excited" about a sale. It would mean he's a dead man walking.

The first step for any new ownership group would be to bring in a senior hockey executive to evaluate the organization, from top to bottom. What happens after those type of "evaluations"? The senior hockey executive always fires the current regime, and brings in someone they like and have worked with in the past.

So new owners would mean unemployment for Pierre.

I mean, even if they liked his draft and some of his moves, the toxic atmosphere around the team wouldn't make it possible for him to stay on. Any new owner will want a hard reset to try and start fresh.

Dorion has already become a Dead Man Walking.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

They have to. I can't see them not doing it. I will delete my account if Chabot is not signed.

I agree they have to for optics sake, but is it up to them if they straight up can't swing it financially?

 

[Qward]

I dont think new ownership would mean Dorion would be unemployed. I think he has a strong case that he made the best he could of a situation where limits were placed on him by Melnyk. That being said he would be on a short leash.

 

[Upgrayedd]

"Most excited i have ever been heading into a season" welp tack it on the board lol, what a donkey this guy is!

 

[DaveMatthew]

I dont think new ownership would mean Dorion would be unemployed. I think he has a strong case that he made the best he could of a situation where limits were placed on him by Melnyk. That being said he would be on a short leash.

I think any new ownership group will try to rid themselves of anything that reminds fans of the last 2 (soon to be 3) very dark years. I think it would be impossible to try to "start fresh" while still trotting Dorion out there as the guy making decisions.

Beyond just his hockey moves, he's made too many PR gaffes.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I dont think new ownership would mean Dorion would be unemployed. I think he has a strong case that he made the best he could of a situation where limits were placed on him by Melnyk. That being said he would be on a short leash.

I disagree.

He arguably had as much of a hand in needing to rebuild as anyone by nickel and diming his budget away on an inept collection of non impact players to surround our core with. Mark Stone, Erik Karlsson, Mike Hoffman and Matt Duchene were not the problem. The problem was the 35 or so million being spent on a group consisting of Anderson, Condon, Ceci, Phaneuf, Smith, Burrows Buyout, etc. that couldn't contribute near their pay scale.

 

[Upgrayedd]

They have to. I can't see them not doing it. I will delete my account if Chabot is not signed.

Thought the same thing a few years ago, since then they have moved out a dozen or so players that needed to be paid. Pro tip, both of these players are more likely moved than re-signed in Ottawa.

 

[Qward]

I think any new ownership group will try to rid themselves of anything that reminds fans of the last 2 (soon to be 3) very dark years. I think it would be impossible to try to "start fresh" while still trotting Dorion out there as the guy making decisions.

Beyond just his hockey moves, he's made too many PR gaffes.

His PR gaffes were bad I agree. I also feel he was a good scout but is a poor GM and has been swindled in his trades, I just dont think new ownership would clean house right away.

 

[GrantLemons]

I think any new ownership group will try to rid themselves of anything that reminds fans of the last 2 (soon to be 3) very dark years. I think it would be impossible to try to "start fresh" while still trotting Dorion out there as the guy making decisions.

Beyond just his hockey moves, he's made too many PR gaffes.

Exactly right. It's insane that Eugene has even trotted Dorion out there for the "rebuild" considering he was the face behind the meltdown. Anyone in PR would say in a heartbeat that in order to flush the turd of the last 2 years you need a fresh face, a fresh voice and a re-brand. That alone would likely sell a lot of tickets.

The org has done exactly zero of those things. Not saying I'm surprised, it's actually more just pathetic how clueless they are.

 

[GrantLemons]

His PR gaffes were bad I agree. I also feel he was a good scout but is a poor GM and has been swindled in his trades, I just dont think new ownership would clean house right away.

The timing of the sale would matter. If it was offseason they may want their new staff in place by the start of the season, and if it was mid-season it would make sense to have the hockey ops team ride out the year and then make the changes in the offseason.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I don’t mind his excitement at all, and I don’t know, but I’m also waaaay more excited about this upcoming season then I have been in tears.

One goal away from the finals? Come now, most of you guys were going on and on, during the run, about how lucky we were to be there. There was very little extra excitement that off season, as no one expected to come close to a repeat.

All of the kids, the almost whole-sale turn over of vets, exciting camp battles with kids, and an entirely new coaching staff, lead by a very highly regarded Babcock protege, and two full blown NHL head coaches as associate coaches looks good too.

So much youthful enthusiasm, extreme positivity from the coaching staff, and development at all levels lends to a pretty exciting season to look forward to. It won’t be great for standing watching, but for all of us nerds that like to follow all the kids, and have accepted the rebuild, it’s pretty exciting times.

I won’t let future fear of contract negotiations ruin the now for me. I assume that the three core kids will be signed, as it would be the death knell not to. A quick look around the league shows that it’s quite normal for these types of negotiations to take a while.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I don’t mind his excitement at all, and I don’t know, but I’m also waaaay more excited about this upcoming season then I have been in tears.

One goal away from the finals? Come now, most of you guys were going on and on, during the run, about how lucky we were to be there. There was very little extra excitement that off season, as no one expected to come close to a repeat.

All of the kids, the almost whole-sale turn over of vets, exciting camp battles with kids, and an entirely new coaching staff, lead by a very highly regarded Babcock protege, and two full blown NHL head coaches as associate coaches looks good too.

So much youthful enthusiasm, extreme positivity from the coaching staff, and development at all levels lends to a pretty exciting season to look forward to. It won’t be great for standing watching, but for all of us nerds that like to follow all the kids, and have accepted the rebuild, it’s pretty exciting times.

I won’t let future fear of contract negotiations ruin the now for me. I assume that the three core kids will be signed, as it would be the death knell not to. A quick look around the league shows that it’s quite normal for these types of negotiations to take a while.

A lot of this could have been said for the start of last season too. In fact, if you remember, Dorion told everyone how excited he was about the young, energetic team in July/August/September 2018 as well.

• Mark Stone stepping into the primary leadership role! Future captain! Get excited!
• Thomas Chabot getting the opportunity to be the #1 guy! Get excited!
• Brady Tkachuk, hockey royalty! Get excited!
• "A team" filled with young guys that want to prove everyone wrong and grow together! Get excited!
• Camp battles with young guys like Lajoie, Wolanin and Jaros! Get excited!

Everyone was excited! The owner, management, sponsors, players! Didn't mean much.

Enthusiasm and positivity can get you through September and October. But when the dog days of November, December and January hit? It goes away pretty fast. And if you're on a team that's getting manhandled on the ice, playing in front of a half-filled building, it's not fun.

When Chabot is unsigned heading into March and a new scandal about management surfaces (as expected), it'll be the same old.

The only thing that's different is that we'll have a 1st round pick to look forward to, so that's at least something.

 

[Micklebot]

I don’t mind his excitement at all, and I don’t know, but I’m also waaaay more excited about this upcoming season then I have been in tears.

One goal away from the finals? Come now, most of you guys were going on and on, during the run, about how lucky we were to be there. There was very little extra excitement that off season, as no one expected to come close to a repeat.

All of the kids, the almost whole-sale turn over of vets, exciting camp battles with kids, and an entirely new coaching staff, lead by a very highly regarded Babcock protege, and two full blown NHL head coaches as associate coaches looks good too.

So much youthful enthusiasm, extreme positivity from the coaching staff, and development at all levels lends to a pretty exciting season to look forward to. It won’t be great for standing watching, but for all of us nerds that like to follow all the kids, and have accepted the rebuild, it’s pretty exciting times.

I won’t let future fear of contract negotiations ruin the now for me. I assume that the three core kids will be signed, as it would be the death knell not to. A quick look around the league shows that it’s quite normal for these types of negotiations to take a while.

The year after the ECF run was probably worthy of more optimism until Dorion started making his offseason moves. Some people might have been thinking we'd actually add to the team to push them over the top with the extra playoff revenue, but instead Methot is gone and replaced by Oduya. Karlsson and Brassard not being ready until right at the start of the season and not looking right didn't help.

The 2012-13 season was easily the most optimistic I've been entering a season.

Took NYR who had the 2nd most Reg season pts in the league to 7 games
Karlsson coming off a Norris
Spezza coming off finishing 6th for the hart
Alfredsson, Gonchar, Methot, and Phillips as the vets for the team
Goaltending looks stacked with Anderson, Lehner and Bishop
Zibanejad, Silf, Stone and Hoffman all look like great prospects,

 

[Ice-Tray]

A lot of this could have been said for the start of last season too. In fact, if you remember, Dorion told everyone how excited he was about the young, energetic team in July/August/September 2018 as well.

• Mark Stone stepping into the primary leadership role! Future captain! Get excited!
• Thomas Chabot getting the opportunity to be the #1 guy! Get excited!
• Brady Tkachuk, hockey royalty! Get excited!
• "A team" filled with young guys that want to prove everyone wrong and grow together! Get excited!
• Camp battles with young guys like Lajoie, Wolanin and Jaros! Get excited!

Everyone was excited! The owner, management, sponsors, players! Didn't mean much.

Enthusiasm and positivity can get you through September and October. But when the dog days of November, December and January hit? It goes away pretty fast. And if you're on a team that's getting manhandled on the ice, playing in front of a half-filled building, it's not fun.

When Chabot is unsigned heading into March and a new scandal about management surfaces (as expected), it'll be the same old.

The only thing that's different is that we'll have a 1st round pick to look forward to, so that's at least something.

I get what you’re saying, but at the end of the day I’m a hockey fan, and a Sens fan for good or bad. I really don’t have a lot of interest in being emotionally invested in the off ice drama. I mean I follow it, but I don’t let it affect my life in any way.

I was somewhat excited last season, but there was a whole bunch up in the air, and while I was hopeful, I’d say that things were more unsure than exciting.

This year we are totally rebuilding, and we now know the extent of it (full). There are no more real contract issues, though we will be waiting for our RFA signings as proof of team commitment.

It’s all a matter of perspective, and what you want to get out of the team on an individual level. Many want to be angry, to vent, and to assume the worst about the future. I personally am looking at the kids and the new staff and am excited to see what they can do. I’m also looking forward to seeing what all the other kids do in Belleville.

Personally, if I couldn’t find some enjoyment in our rebuild, I’d have to tune out from the team, and here, for a few years until I became interested again. As it stands I’m engaged in witnessing the first real rebuild this team has ever undergone, and to be honest it looks to me like PD is building the team the right way, and the prospects look pretty darn good. Im not sweating a pick here and there to save money, because I figure that saving money is a mandate from the top down, and the GM has to work within the parameters of his job, like we all do.

I also don’t sweat people’s problems with speaking publicly, which is ironic coming from in here where so many have self reported as being awkward in groups, have self confidence issues, and have social anxiety. If you skip this kind of stuff and look at the on ice set up in the context of a rebuild, there is lots to be interested in. But, like I said, for those who need to be angry I understand that there is little to be excited about, and likely won’t be until the focus of hatred has been removed.

I think in the end it’s two ways of looking at the situation, and when you’re in one camp, the other looks difficult to understand.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The year after the ECF run was probably worthy of more optimism until Dorion started making his offseason moves. Some people might have been thinking we'd actually add to the team to push them over the top with the extra playoff revenue, but instead Methot is gone and replaced by Oduya. Karlsson and Brassard not being ready until right at the start of the season and not looking right didn't help.

The 2012-13 season was easily the most optimistic I've been entering a season.

Took NYR who had the 2nd most Reg season pts in the league to 7 games
Karlsson coming off a Norris
Spezza coming off finishing 6th for the hart
Alfredsson, Gonchar, Methot, and Phillips as the vets for the team
Goaltending looks stacked with Anderson, Lehner and Bishop
Zibanejad, Silf, Stone and Hoffman all look like great prospects,

Except that’s not what happened. People weren’t excited going into the off season, and I think the general consensus was that we needed a lot more than a tinker to have a team that was a legit ECF team.

Naw, that wasn’t a great looking team compared to the lockout year and finals teams in my opinion. Aside from EK, there isn’t another sexy player in that group. Zib was lazy, Silf was a tweener prospect, Spezza was Spezza, Alfie was in his twilight, Stone was not yet the player he is now, etc... (that’s kind of how I felt about that team at the time if I remember correctly). EK was exciting enough for the whole team though.

In my opinion the excitement this year comes from all of the development and growth possibilities of all of the good prospects and kids we have in play. Couple that with a coaching team that seems to have core development as it’s major strength, and it’s exciting to watch.

I always enjoyed the development phase of games like Civ more than the late game stuff, so maybe it’s why this period speaks to me more than others.

 

[GrantLemons]

I get what you’re saying, but at the end of the day I’m a hockey fan, and a Sens fan for good or bad. I really don’t have a lot of interest in being emotionally invested in the off ice drama. I mean I follow it, but I don’t let it affect my life in any way.

I was somewhat excited last season, but there was a whole bunch up in the air, and while I was hopeful, I’d say that things were more unsure than exciting.

This year we are totally rebuilding, and we now know the extent of it (full). There are no more real contract issues, though we will be waiting for our RFA signings as proof of team commitment.

It’s all a matter of perspective, and what you want to get out of the team on an individual level. Many want to be angry, to vent, and to assume the worst about the future. I personally am looking at the kids and the new staff and am excited to see what they can do. I’m also looking forward to seeing what all the other kids do in Belleville.

Personally, if I couldn’t find some enjoyment in our rebuild, I’d have to tune out from the team, and here, for a few years until I became interested again. As it stands I’m engaged in witnessing the first real rebuild this team has ever undergone, and to be honest it looks to me like PD is building the team the right way, and the prospects look pretty darn good. Im not sweating a pick here and there to save money, because I figure that saving money is a mandate from the top down, and the GM has to work within the parameters of his job, like we all do.

I also don’t sweat people’s problems with speaking publicly, which is ironic coming from in here where so many have self reported as being awkward in groups, have self confidence issues, and have social anxiety. If you skip this kind of stuff and look at the on ice set up in the context of a rebuild, there is lots to be interested in. But, like I said, for those who need to be angry I understand that there is little to be excited about, and likely won’t be until the focus of hatred has been removed.

I think in the end it’s two ways of looking at the situation, and when you’re in one camp, the other looks difficult to understand.

Maybe it's because you're not in the city, but being here and living here makes it really tough to ignore all of the bullshit.

Talking hockey with people is just more embarrassing than anything because it always revolves around how much of a joke the org is now. It's rarely ever about the guys on ice, it's always about Eugene and the clown show front office.

I terribly miss the feeling around the city when the team was thriving and considered a hot ticket. You'd see Sens stuff everywhere, hear about events they were putting on featuring players etc, and there's almost none of that now. The team is a shell of what it once was in the community, and it's because of one man.

I work in software and my company is likely similar in size and structure to the Sens front office, and it is really frustrating to me to know that they are operating with major positions being vacant. Any organization cannot function like that, and it's just simply unacceptable for a company with the resources the Sens have. They are capable of so much more, but because they are run by sheer incompetence, we are being served a totally watered down, pathetic version of the product we all love and grew up loving.

It's impossible to looks past the off ice crap to me because I know that the team will be handicapped until it's resolved. Doesn't matter what lightning they hit in the draft or how good these young guys get, poor management will always find a way to f*** things up.

 

[senators101]

If you just focus on the 20 guys on the ice and the coach, it’s not so grim

If you only focus on that, you'll get attached to some young players who will be traded because we won't pay them.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Except that’s not what happened. People weren’t excited going into the off season, and I think the general consensus was that we needed a lot more than a tinker to have a team that was a legit ECF team.

Naw, that wasn’t a great looking team compared to the lockout year and finals teams in my opinion. Aside from EK, there isn’t another sexy player in that group. Zib was lazy, Silf was a tweener prospect, Spezza was Spezza, Alfie was in his twilight, Stone was not yet the player he is now, etc... (that’s kind of how I felt about that team at the time if I remember correctly). EK was exciting enough for the whole team though.

In my opinion the excitement this year comes from all of the development and growth possibilities of all of the good prospects and kids we have in play. Couple that with a coaching team that seems to have core development as it’s major strength, and it’s exciting to watch.

I always enjoyed the development phase of games like Civ more than the late game stuff, so maybe it’s why this period speaks to me more than others.

It's very odd to say that you weren't excited about Zibanejad (2 years removed from being the 5th overall pick), Stone (who had just established himself as a top-end prospect after dominating the WJC) and Silfverberg (who had dominate the SEL as a 21 year old) in the same post where you say you're so excited about the prospects we have today (like Brannstrom, Tkachuk, etc).

In 2012 and 2013 our situation, when it comes to young players, was better than it is today:

Karlsson was 21, just won a Norris
Stone was 19, had just dominated the WJC
Zibanejad was entering the league after being drafted 5th overall. Nobody thought he was lazy, and he was ranked the #6 prospect in the NHL heading into the season: Ranking Hockey's Top 50 Prospects After the 2012 NHL Draft
Silfverberg tore up the SEL at 21
Cowen was still a top-end prospect
Hoffman had finished a great rookie season in the AHL
Wiercioch was supposed to be Pietrangelo-lite
We had just acquired a 22 year old, former 3rd overall pick in Kyle Turris
Curtis Lazar was captain Canada
Cody Ceci was just drafted 15th overall
Lehner was the next great goalie

Then, throw in our "2nd tier" prospects like Noesen, Puempel, Prince, Pageau and Lehner, who were every bit as highly thought of as Wolanin, Balcers, Lajoie, etc.

Now, obviously not everything worked out as planned. But not everything will work out with our current group of prospects, either. There's no guarantee that Brannstrom and Norris won't go the way of Lazar and Wiercioch, for example, and that Brown isn't the next Cowen.

All this is to say that it's simple not true to say that we're better stocked with young talent than we've every been before.

Now, a top-end prospect like Lafreniere would change that calculation, but we don't have him yet.

 

[Sting]

It's so true. Most people don't rank our prospect pool in the top 10 and it's true. We have great defensive prospect depth, maybe better than we've ever had at one time. Up front, I am struggling to see true impact players other than Batherson. The rest scream bottom 6 to me (Norris, Brown if he makes it, Formenton).

Dorion has some real work to do to dramatically increase the talent level up front.

Unfortunately, having a ton of salary cap room is not an asset to Ottawa. Whereas other teams use the room to gain assets, we do it to save small amounts of money.

 

[branch]

They have to. I can't see them not doing it. I will delete my account if Chabot is not signed.

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