Selanne - Playoff choker?

[Morris]

Do you consider Teemu Selanne a playoff choker?

Goals per game (regular season): 0.51
Goals per game (playoffs): 0.33

PPG (regular season): 1.07
PPG (playoffs): 0.68

He won the Stanley Cup in 2007, but wasn't even a top 5 player on the team (Pahlsson, Getzlaf, Pronger, Giguere, Niedermayer). He finished 16 points ahead of the next scorer on the team in the regular season though.

Click to read more...

 

[Bjindaho]

Do you consider Teemu Selanne a playoff choker?

Goals per game (regular season): 0.51
Goals per game (playoffs): 0.33

PPG (regular season): 1.07
PPG (playoffs): 0.68

He won the Stanley Cup in 2007, but wasn't even a top 5 player on the team (Pahlsson, Getzlaf, Pronger, Giguere, Niedermayer). He finished 16 points ahead of the next scorer on the team in the regular season though.

He also played the entire playoffs with a broken hand...the problem with Teemu is that his playoffs are starting to come as he gets older (that he didn't get to play in the playoffs much when he was younger)...so when we look back on his career, his rates for the playoffs are gonna totally suck compared to his rates during the regular season...Teemu seems to transform his game in the playoffs so that even when he isn't scoring, he is still contributing (almost making himself into a defensive forward)...

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I believe he led the Olympics in scoring twice. Not sure what that says...there are some big differences between the two, but worth noting.

 

[octopi]

No, I've never connected that thought with Teemu Selanne.

Joe Thornton or Dany Heatley, however.....

 

[Morris]

I believe he led the Olympics in scoring twice. Not sure what that says...there are some big differences between the two, but worth noting.

He was actually a non-factor in the Olympic Final 2006.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Yes, Selanne did drop off at playoff time, and was rarely a big factor in playoffs.

Even in the year he won the cup, there were a ton of other players who were better. Getzlaf, Perry, MacDonald, Pahlsson and Moen were better among forwards, and Niedermayer/Pronger were most certainly better even though they played on Defense. Selanne was along for the ride. His PPG dropped from 1.14 in the regular season to 0.71 in the playoffs, and scoring was really all he was good for. In all honesty, his playoff Numbers are and always have been "Joe Thornton" like.

 

[seventieslord]

Absolutely. He has to be held accountable in the court of public opinion for his relatively brutal playoff numbers.

Playoff scoring generally drops around 15%. For a player to be around 15% personally, is par for the course.

Selanne's points per game drop by 37%. That's hugely precipitous! Does Marcel Dionne even see a drop like that? Can you think of any other star players (let's define stars as anyone who ever scored 90 points or made the 1st/2nd all-star team) from the past 20 years with a 37% drop in their playoff numbers?

 

[tomi2]

When Selanne was in his prime he scored 13 goals in 21 playoff games and I know that it's quite a small sample size but still, it tells me that he could score in the playoffs (btw Teemu was nowhere near as good in 05-07 than he was in the 90's).

 

[Arselona]

From hockeydb:

Season Team League GP G A P
1991-92 Jokerit Helsinki FNL 10 10 7 17
[--> Check http://yle.fi/elavaarkisto/?s=s&g=3&ag=81&t=600&a=5270 Selanne scores a ton especially in 4. and 5. games]
1992-93 Winnipeg Jets NHL 6 4 2 6
1993-94 Winnipeg Jets NHL -- -- -- -- --
1994-95 Winnipeg Jets NHL -- -- -- -- --
1994-95 Jokerit Helsinki FNL -- -- -- -- --
1995-96 Winnipeg Jets NHL -- -- -- -- --
1995-96 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL -- -- -- -- --
1996-97 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL 11 7 3 10
1997-98 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL 4 2 2 4
1999-00 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL -- -- -- -- --
2000-01 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL -- -- -- -- --
2000-01 San Jose Sharks NHL 6 0 2 2
2001-02 San Jose Sharks NHL 12 5 3 8
2002-03 San Jose Sharks NHL -- -- -- -- --
2003-04 Colorado Avalanche NHL 10 0 3 3
2005-06 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL 16 6 8 14
2006-07 Anaheim Ducks NHL 21 5 10 15
2007-08 Anaheim Ducks NHL 6 2 2 4
2008-09 Anaheim Ducks NHL 13 4 2 6

Looking at stats, some things I'd like to point out:
- From his NHL Rookie season to the one before being traded to SJ, his playoff stats are rather adequate.
- Colorado year was terrible. Quick look at Hockey-Reference.Com tells that on that stacked Avalanche team his ATOI was low at a mere 12:53.

From Anaheim's cup winning playoff run I remember his scoring really disappearing in the Final series against Ottawa.
In last years playoffs, Selanne's best game was the final game 7 at Detroit.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Absolutely. He has to be held accountable in the court of public opinion for his relatively brutal playoff numbers.

Playoff scoring generally drops around 15%. For a player to be around 15% personally, is par for the course.

Selanne's points per game drop by 37%. That's hugely precipitous! Does Marcel Dionne even see a drop like that? Can you think of any other star players (let's define stars as anyone who ever scored 90 points or made the 1st/2nd all-star team) from the past 20 years with a 37% drop in their playoff numbers?

I'm not good at percentages anymore, so I may be off. But, I'm pretty sure Dionne is a 31% drop.

 

[Spankatola Jamnuts*]

To present an opposite argument, Selanne only made the playoffs twice in his prime, both times on team where he was one of only two scoring options, and both times facing powerhouse Detroit teams as a hopeless underdog.

Selanne did make the playoffs a couple times in San Jose (suffering through various knee and hand injuries), and he was his team's best forward in 05-06. He made an excellent contribution in the Cup winning year as well; the notion that Perry, McDonald, or Moen were better than he is absurd.

Teemu hasn't exactly set himself up as a hero, but I do think circumstances in his career have conspired to give him as rough a road as possible in terms of playoff opportunities, at least until recently in his late 30s.

 

[Big Phil]

Up until 2006 I would agree with you, but to Teemu's credit he's brought it starting in 2006. In 2007 I thought he was good, even though there were a lot of options on Anaheim that year. It's fair to say he scored Anaheim's biggest goal of their franchise (Game #5 overtime vs. Detroit). But despite the trend he did towards bringing a adequate playoff resume, he's still below par among superstars, well below par in fact. Joe Thornton and Dionne come to mind right away, although he's done more than either of them in the postseason. Either way Teemu is a lock for the HHOF, don't listen to anyone that thinks he isnt

 

[MS]

To present an opposite argument, Selanne only made the playoffs twice in his prime, both times on team where he was one of only two scoring options, and both times facing powerhouse Detroit teams as a hopeless underdog.

Selanne did make the playoffs a couple times in San Jose (suffering through various knee and hand injuries), and he was his team's best forward in 05-06. He made an excellent contribution in the Cup winning year as well; the notion that Perry, McDonald, or Moen were better than he is absurd.

Teemu hasn't exactly set himself up as a hero, but I do think circumstances in his career have conspired to give him as rough a road as possible in terms of playoff opportunities, at least until recently in his late 30s.

I tend to agree with this.

In his prime years from 1992-2000, he was on terrible teams and appeared in only 21 playoff games. Still, he scored 13 goals in those 21 games, which is a 50+ goal pace and certainly not 'choking'. You can't really call his performance during that period into question, especially when you consider the 8th-seed teams he was playing for against Cup favourites.

From 2000-04, he went through a downturn in his career, and yeah, he stunk in the playoffs. Ironically, when he was a much worse player, he received an opportunity to play in substantially more playoff contests. Scored 5 goals in 28 games over that stretch, and that's what brings his career playoff totals way down.

Since his return to Anaheim, he's been hit/miss. Was great in 2006, only OK as the Ducks won the Cup in '07, but still - scoring 15 playoff points at the age of 37 isn't half bad.

Has he been a great playoff performer? No, but circumstances make him look like more of a choker than he actually was. Too bad he didn't get a chance to suit up for a good team in the playoffs during his prime in the '90s.

 

[Jussi]

Not much to add, 90's he played with poor teams and 2000-04 when he got play on good teams, he was banged up. During their Cup win he was clearly injured because he didn't take any slapshots in the finals. He was still able to set up people though (like Penner).