Proposal: Seguin to NJD

AveryStar4Eva

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Aug 28, 2014
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That's literally the worst case scenario for you guys (besides him leaving in UFA obviously).

You'll get spare parts for a few months of an unsigned Seguin.

That’s true, but we don’t want to panic and trade him right now. Everything points to Seguin wanting to get a deal done with Dallas. We will risk a lower return in order to negotiate with him. I don’t see any scenario that Seguin is traded before the new year.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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It's not catastrophic in any sense. Disappointing, yeah, because of who was left. Zacha will likely top out as a second liner, who is very good defensively. He is/will be a very useful player. If they drafted Crouse, then we could be freaking out.

It's absolutely catastrophic, especially considering Zacha is looking more and more like a 3C who might qualify as a lower end 2C if he improves. Could you imagine how much better this team would be with Barzal and Hischier as our 1-2 centers for the next 7+ years?

That's an upgrade of epic proportions. We'd go from having well below average center depth to having one of the best young center duos in the league. We'd also probably have the fastest top 2 centers in the league.

Johansson - Barzal - Palmieri
Hall - Hischier - Bratt

That could have been our top 6 - two legit first lines. They would skate circles around most teams.

Catastrophic is the perfect way of describing it.
 

NJD28

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Nov 28, 2010
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That’s true, but we don’t want to panic and trade him right now. Everything points to Seguin wanting to get a deal done with Dallas. We will risk a lower return in order to negotiate with him. I don’t see any scenario that Seguin is traded before the new year.

Don't really see the return that much lower at the deadline. There won't be a shortage of interested teams and it only takes two to bid against each other. Hopefully you can get a deal worked out before then and it's all irrelevant anyways.
 

SpeakingOfTheDevils

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It's absolutely catastrophic, especially considering Zacha is looking more and more like a 3C who might qualify as a lower end 2C if he improves. Could you imagine how much better this team would be with Barzal and Hischier as our 1-2 centers for the next 7+ years?

That's an upgrade of epic proportions. We'd go from having well below average center depth to having one of the best young center duos in the league. We'd also probably have the fastest top 2 centers in the league.

Johansson - Barzal - Palmieri
Hall - Hischier - Bratt

That could have been our top 6 - two legit first lines. They would skate circles around most teams.

Catastrophic is the perfect way of describing it.

Spilled milk, dude. Relax.

I also have a hard time figuring how you conclude Zacha is “looking more and more” like anything, really. Pigeon-holing him as a 3C is dishonest. He’s still establishing his game, and made serious, tangible strides last year. Some players just have different development curves (and before you paint that as a lame cop-out, go ask Flyers fans what they thought of Sean Couturier after his 15-point, 20-year-old season).
 

HBK27

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I know Hall had a great season winning the Hart but Seguin is still more valuable than him so it would take Hall+ for Seguin.

In what universe are the Devils trading 1 1/2 years of Taylor Hall for 1/2 year of Seguin...and still adding to the deal???

I expect Seguin ultimately stays with Dallas. If he doesn't re-sign, he should be dealt to a team that he would put over the top into the Stanley Cup favorite this year. Devils are still a couple of years away from that, so they should not be in the mix. If by some chance he reaches UFA next summer NJ should toss a boatload of money his way - they have the cap space to easily fit him and factoring in the young guys they have coming up, I think they'd quickly become a contender.
 

HBK27

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no fa with options have gone to NJ in a long ass time. star players would rather retire early then fullfill their contracts. players walkign soon as they get UFA status... you know the history of NJ for last bunch of seasons. Have fun with hall walking in 2 years!

What history of NJ the "last bunch of seasons"? Kovalchuk left 5 years ago - what other big name players have left since? Devils haven't had many great players (thus last season was the first back in the playoffs since 2012), but the top players that they did have that were approaching UFA status all stayed with the club (Schneider, Greene & Zajac).

No big UFA's have come here in that time, but when you're rebuilding why is that really a priority? Yeah, we missed out on Shattenkirk last season, but he was dead set on playing for the Rangers. Not much you can do there. Fortunately, Will Butcher was a rather sweet consolation prize that likely doesn't happen if they land Shattenkirk. I'm sure NJ would've been in on Tavares if that was a possibility, but sounds like it was NYI or TOR. Would've been nice to keep Maroon, but he took significantly less on a one-year deal to be with his family in St. Louis. Who else are we missing out on? Shero is not going to spend just to spend - the cap space will be extremely valuable in hopefully resigning Johansson this offseason, and new contracts for Hall, Vantanen and Nico the following offseason while still having room to add in free agency as NJ's contender window is opening.

Nice try though. Enjoy the rebuild and watching Lundqvist go down as one of the greatest goaltenders to never win a Cup. Have to think he surpasses Cujo, right? 3 more years at $8.5M per - will be fun to see if they ride that contract out and hurt their draft chances in the process or pay someone to be able to unload that cap hit? Have to think they'd like to get one of the younger guys that will still be around once the team is good again into the nets sometime soon, right? Nice that Shattenkirk will also be around for those 3 years as well.
 

HBK27

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It's absolutely catastrophic, especially considering Zacha is looking more and more like a 3C who might qualify as a lower end 2C if he improves. Could you imagine how much better this team would be with Barzal and Hischier as our 1-2 centers for the next 7+ years?

That's an upgrade of epic proportions. We'd go from having well below average center depth to having one of the best young center duos in the league. We'd also probably have the fastest top 2 centers in the league.

Johansson - Barzal - Palmieri
Hall - Hischier - Bratt

That could have been our top 6 - two legit first lines. They would skate circles around most teams.

Catastrophic is the perfect way of describing it.

If NJ drafts Barzal, they most likely don't finish where the do in the standings in 2016-2017 when Zacha played 70 games.

Would Barzal + the 5th pick (or where ever NJ winds up finishing in the draft order without winning the lottery, with whatever record by having Barzal over Zacha) be better than Nico + Zacha? Probably, but not as much as the unrealistic comparison you're using now of Nico + Barzal vs. Nico + Zacha.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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If NJ drafts Barzal, they most likely don't finish where the do in the standings in 2016-2017 when Zacha played 70 games.

Would Barzal + the 5th pick (or where ever NJ winds up finishing in the draft order without winning the lottery, with whatever record by having Barzal over Zacha) be better than Nico + Zacha? Probably, but not as much as the unrealistic comparison you're using now of Nico + Barzal vs. Nico + Zacha.

That's a terrible way to look at it - how do you know that they wouldn't have won the lottery again? You would think losing 70 games of Zacha would increase their odds of winning the lottery, no?

Regardless, I take Barzal + 5th pick (Patterson) over Hischier and Zacha by a million billion miles.

Heck, I'd take Barzal by himself over Hischier and Zacha.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

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When you look at the guys that got drafted after him, he's absolutely an unbelievably disappointing pick. To have the 6th overall pick in a draft like 2015 and come away with Pavel Zacha is unforgivable.

He's already way behind these forwards drafted after him:

Barzal
Rantenen
Aho
Boeser
Connor
Debrusk
Konecny

Plus Provorov and Werenski were still on the board!

Sure hindsight is 20/20, but I've been saying this since the day he was drafted.

who gives a shit what other players have done

just beacuse a bunch of players have become very good quickly does not mean Zacha will never become good

not all development is linear
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

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no fa with options have gone to NJ in a long ass time. star players would rather retire early then fullfill their contracts. players walkign soon as they get UFA status... you know the history of NJ for last bunch of seasons. Have fun with hall walking in 2 years!

in the past 5 years, the Devils have re-signed

Travis Zajac
Andy Greene
Kyle Palmieri
Cory Schneider
Adam Henrique
Damon Severson

Will Butcher also chose to sign in NJ when he could have signed anywhere he wanted

but lets keep up that narrative!!
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

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That's a terrible way to look at it - how do you know that they wouldn't have won the lottery again? You would think losing 70 games of Zacha would increase their odds of winning the lottery, no?

Regardless, I take Barzal + 5th pick (Patterson) over Hischier and Zacha by a million billion miles.

Heck, I'd take Barzal by himself over Hischier and Zacha.

the most insane take you've ever had

and THAT is saying something
 
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Ogi1Kenobi

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There is no indication that Dallas is rebuilding this season, so the likelihood that he gets traded before the season is pretty much zero percent. If Dallas is not in the playoff race by the deadline, and Seguin is still unsigned, then he is good as gone. Dallas will be a smaller package at the TD, but if they really want to compete then they need an actual #1 centerman.

With that said, I think Seguin will be signed eventually. He's made it clear that he wants to stay in Dallas (hence why he's disappointed that he has no contract yet), but Nill is hesitant to give him 11 mil. x 8 years. I'm guessing that is the number he is seeking (I forgot what Tavares got).
 

HBK27

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That's a terrible way to look at it - how do you know that they wouldn't have won the lottery again? You would think losing 70 games of Zacha would increase their odds of winning the lottery, no?

Regardless, I take Barzal + 5th pick (Patterson) over Hischier and Zacha by a million billion miles.

Heck, I'd take Barzal by himself over Hischier and Zacha.

It's the logical way to look at it. The team that finished where the Devils did was going to win the draft lottery - that's the way it worked out with the drawing. Could NJ have still finished in that spot with Barzal (either in NJ or the WHL) instead of Zacha playing 70 games? Sure, but the more likely scenario is that they don't. Even with a worse spot in the standings, that moves them out of winning the lottery.

I wouldn't take Barzal over Hischier and Zacha at this point.
 

HBK27

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Not a surprise, when you have fans of other teams referring to Zacha as "a bottom 6 plug" and writing him off as having zero value. I know you don't like Zacha and are critical about every wrong move the Devils make, but you have to see that he still has some value and has been improving his game the past 2 seasons. Certainly not enough to be worthy of his draft spot, but also enough not to write the guy off yet.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

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oh yeah, if I want rational hockey discussion, the place I go is the HF boards main poll board

Like I said, you have hated Zacha for years and you will never change your opinion no matter what he does. When you cannot have a rational discussion on the matter, its pointless to even debate.

I Wouldn't even trade Hischier for Barzal straight up.

Lets keep in mind that Barzal is 2 years older than Hischier and had Tavares to face much of the top competition last year.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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Not a surprise, when you have fans of other teams referring to Zacha as "a bottom 6 plug" and writing him off as having zero value. I know you don't like Zacha and are critical about every wrong move the Devils make, but you have to see that he still has some value and has been improving his game the past 2 seasons. Certainly not enough to be worthy of his draft spot, but also enough not to write the guy off yet.

I do realize that. He projects as a solid 3C with the ability to play in all situations. A good, valuable player. But not a game breaker, and he's far from irreplaceable.

oh yeah, if I want rational hockey discussion, the place I go is the HF boards main poll board

Well I must be a pretty sane person if "the most insane take" I've ever had is a majority opinion. That must make my regular comments quite rational.

Like I said, you have hated Zacha for years and you will never change your opinion no matter what he does. When you cannot have a rational discussion on the matter, its pointless to even debate.

I don't hate Zacha, I just hate the fact that we wasted the 6th pick in a loaded draft on an average player, especially with a guy like Barzal on the board.

I Wouldn't even trade Hischier for Barzal straight up.

And I'm the insane one? LOL.

It's the logical way to look at it. The team that finished where the Devils did was going to win the draft lottery - that's the way it worked out with the drawing. Could NJ have still finished in that spot with Barzal (either in NJ or the WHL) instead of Zacha playing 70 games? Sure, but the more likely scenario is that they don't. Even with a worse spot in the standings, that moves them out of winning the lottery.

That's not at all true. Butterfly effect man. The lottery result would likely have been different.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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when Mat Barzal was 18, he was in the WHL.

when Nico Hischier was 18, he was centering the top line of a playoff team

lets keep that in perspective.

That has exactly zero relevance to who is the more valuable player.

You can say the same thing about RNH as an 18 year old. Yet somehow I'd take Johnny Gaudreau over him.
 
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connormcmuffin

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Considering that's at least twice as much as I've seen offered for Karlsson on this site at least the value is there, if Dallas leans to a rebuild which they might be better suited for they do this in a second.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

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That has exactly zero relevance to who is the more valuable player.

You can say the same thing about RNH as an 18 year old. Yet somehow I'd take Johnny Gaudreau over him.

thats because you now have hindsight

that absolutely positively has an effect. You don't think Nico is ever going to get better?
 

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