Seguin at $9.85M or Tavares at $11M

[HyPnOtiK]

Tavares was voted like 4th or 5th best centre on HF polls before coming to the Leafs, now Tyler Seguin is supposed to be better, lol. So yeah, evidence of players in polls before and after joining the Leafs say otherwise.

Also, every and any list you can find put out recently by TSN, THN, NHL Network, SN, and NHL.com has Tavares either within the top 10 C's or just outside it, and all have him well ahead of Seguin.

Tavares should have never been voted a top 5 center, ever.

No argument for him over

Crosby
Mcdavid
Malkin
Giroux
Kopitar

He wasn't as good as these guys last year either.

Bergeron
Barkov
Couturier
Matthews
Mack
Stamkos
Barzal

 

[Critical13]

"Inside sources"?

He openly admitted his long-time love for the Leafs after he signed the deal. He spoke his mind, freely and publicly. Surprised you missed it, to be honest. This is common knowledge.

But please, keep thinking I'm the only one convinced that JT made up his mind before the meetings.

So you are insinuating that somewhere in the media, he said he was going to sign with Toronto no matter what, right?

Because that's what I quoted in the 1st post.

Keep running in circles like a chicken with your head cut off, it's fun to watch.

 

[Critical13]

Just stop man.. these poll results should and would never favor Tavares, regardless the team hes on

He has a point tho.

You have an army of Leaf fans that will almost always vote the Leaf player if it's close. You have an army of Leaf haters who will vote the opposite. The Leaf related polls are the least objective polls on the site.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

I honestly want to know how much does Seguin being 1 year younger mean anything in the long term? It's not like there is a 5 year age difference between them.

When the players are close to dead even, a year and over a million tips the scale. Means a lot in a poll like this

 

[KCC]

Seguin. Not even close, man.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Can somebody tell me how Seguin is better:

PPG+80 point seasons=Tavares>Seguin
Playoff performance=Tavares>>>>>>>>>>Seguin
Defensively=Tavares>Seguin
Peak=Tavares>Seguin
Awards or award finalist=Tavares>>Seguin
Internationally=Tavares>>>Seguin

Apparently, being 1.5 years younger and being 1.15 million cheaper while having had better teammates his entire career makes Seguin>Tavares somehow?

Lol, I have yet to see a real argument for him that doesn't just say "he better, he cheaper, he younger, he win." HOW is he better? We all know he's younger and cheaper, but that doesn't mean much on it's own. He isn't 20 nor is he significantly cheaper.

Tavares is not better defensively. Neither guy was very good defensively but Seguin was very sound last year in his own zone. Tavares is average at best defensively

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

When the players are close to dead even, a year and over a million tips the scale. Means a lot in a poll like this

What about when one player displays a greater than 50% drop in playoff versus regular season scoring while the other displays virtually no drop and has one of the better all time playoff production rates? Does that do anything to the scales?

 

[Critical13]

Tavares is not better defensively. Neither guy was very good defensively but Seguin was very sound last year in his own zone. Tavares is average at best defensively

Just out of curiosity, what's the argument for Seguin? I voted Seguin on a whim, but I haven't really seen too many good arguments for why he is better on here. He's younger and a bit cheaper, but has fewer individual accomplishments with better linemates.

 

[GodEmperor]

Tavares is not better defensively. Neither guy was very good defensively but Seguin was very sound last year in his own zone. Tavares is average at best defensively

One good season doesn't make Seguin better defensively, go look up Selke votes and tell me who has more. Tavares gets the nod for being historically better and playing on way worse teams.

 

[GodEmperor]

Just out of curiosity, what's the argument for Seguin? I voted Seguin on a whim, but I haven't really seen too many good arguments for why he is better on here. He's younger and a bit cheaper, but has fewer individual accomplishments with better linemates.

There isn't, I have laid out the argument for why Tavares is the better player and basically nobody has responded.

The only argument is basically 1.15 million and 1.5 years of age gap completely override Tavares' better career, better last year, better accomplishments, better peak and doing this with worse teammates.

I say not and that they should be at best neck and neck, but clearly HF thinks Seguin is CLEARLY better.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

One good season doesn't make Seguin better defensively, go look up Selke votes and tell me who has more. Tavares gets the nod for being historically better and playing on way worse teams.

With regards to this "look up Selke votes" thing, keep in mind if you're going to use getting Selke votes as the measuring stick for who is good defensively, keep in mind that a lot of Leaf fans INSIST Matthews is good defensively. Yet Matthews has a solitary 38th place finish to his name, and didn't get a single Selke vote last season.

So be careful about using Selke votes as the be-all for saying someone is good defensively, especially when some of those Selke votes are literally 1 or 2 random 4th or 5th place votes.

 

[GodEmperor]

With regards to this "look up Selke votes" thing, keep in mind if you're going to use getting Selke votes as the measuring stick for who is good defensively, keep in mind that a lot of Leaf fans INSIST Matthews is good defensively. Yet Matthews has a solitary 38th place finish to his name, and didn't get a single Selke vote last season.

So be careful about using Selke votes as the be-all for saying someone is good defensively, especially when some of those Selke votes are literally 1 or 2 random 4th or 5th place votes.

The point is that he has been slightly better than Seguin, I'm not saying this is Bergeron v Kovalev or anything like that, but he does have a slight edge specifically when he has been on worse teams with more responsibility.

Nearly 100 votes to 5 votes for the Selke demonstrates this.

 

[Regal]

There isn't, I have laid out the argument for why Tavares is the better player and basically nobody has responded.

The only argument is basically 1.15 million and 1.5 years of age gap completely override Tavares' better career, better last year, better accomplishments, better peak and doing this with worse teammates.

I say not and that they should be at best neck and neck, but clearly HF thinks Seguin is CLEARLY better.

No poll results tell you how much better the voters think someone is. I don't know why that has to be repeated so often.

 

[Dr Pepper]

So Lou Lamoriello doesn't get any blame because it was reported how he made Stamkos feel uncomfortable during their meeting when he brought in Toronto's Mayor and the President of Canadian Tire.

Hadn't heard that, but sure. Lou knew he was in tough against a dazzling Tampa team looking to keep their star player.

I do remember all the hype around Stamkos here, huge buzz and an over-the-top pitch. Not surprised that he chose to stay put, though. If the Isles were contenders, perhaps JT would've done the same - coincidentally sticking around with Lou. But they aren't, so he bolted the first chance he got.

 

[TOGuy14]

I think they are close enough in terms of talent that I would probably take the cap savings of Seguin but its a tough question for sure.

 

[Dr Pepper]

So you are insinuating that somewhere in the media, he said he was going to sign with Toronto no matter what, right?

Because that's what I quoted in the 1st post.

Keep running in circles like a chicken with your head cut off, it's fun to watch.

It's cute that that's how you think this conversation looks, but I'll respond anyways.

It's pretty simple to anyone with basic reading comprehension, that Tavares wanted to be a Toronto Maple Leaf from the get-go. As mentioned earlier, he booked "meetings" with other teams to drive the price up, and got Dubas to pay him $11 mil per season for something he likely would've done for less (had it been offered).

Tell me, if it's your absolute dream to play for your childhood team, but they offer you $3-4 mil less than another team is willing to pay, do you turn your back on them and sign elsewhere for more money? Or do you take what Dubas offered and make it official?

 

[Critical13]

It's cute that that's how you think this conversation looks, but I'll respond anyways.

It's pretty simple to anyone with basic reading comprehension, that Tavares wanted to be a Toronto Maple Leaf from the get-go. As mentioned earlier, he booked "meetings" with other teams to drive the price up, and got Dubas to pay him $11 mil per season for something he likely would've done for less (had it been offered).

Tell me, if it's your absolute dream to play for your childhood team, but they offer you $3-4 mil less than another team is willing to pay, do you turn your back on them and sign elsewhere for more money? Or do you take what Dubas offered and make it official?

Ahhh, now we come to the crux of it. You are making assumptions which fit your timeline of events in an effort to prop up your argument. You aren't alone on here, but you are also not in good company.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Tell me, if it's your absolute dream to play for your childhood team, but they offer you $3-4 mil less than another team is willing to pay, do you turn your back on them and sign elsewhere for more money? Or do you take what Dubas offered and make it official?

I know things are different with the no state tax in Florida, however it was reported that Toronto's offer to Steven Stamkos was 7 years worth $73.5 million which would have been a $10.5 million AAV. Stamkos ended up re-signing for 8 years with an AVV of $8.5 million, however I don't know how much the no state tax effected him taking less than what the Leafs offer was. Either way Stamkos could have lived his childhood dream and decided not to.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Ahhh, now we come to the crux of it. You are making assumptions which fit your timeline of events in an effort to prop up your argument. You aren't alone on here, but you are also not in good company.

Hey, nothing against Tavares, he was offered the deal to live out his dream, and he took it. Any one of us would've done the same.

My point is that PERHAPS Leafs GM Kyle Dubas could have shown more foresight with regards to upcoming raises (Nylander, Matthews, Marner), and not sold the farm just to get the deal done.

I'd be interested in knowing whether or not he knew what San Jose offered, going into his meeting. I'm a little hazy on the meeting schedule, or whether or not Tavares' camp could even share that info. Probably not, actually.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I'd be interested in knowing whether or not he knew what San Jose offered, going into his meeting. I'm a little hazy on the meeting schedule, or whether or not Tavares' camp could even share that info. Probably not, actually.

It was reported that the Sharks offered Tavares 7 years at $91 million which would have been a $13 million AAV.

 

[Realgud]

Tavares

 

[Dr Pepper]

It was reported that the Sharks offered Tavares 7 years at $91 million which would have been a $13 million AAV.

I know, I'm just curious if the other teams were aware of what else was being bid, or if Tavares was allowed to disclose that information. Again, probably not.

If Dubas knew going in that Wilson offered $13 mil, and came in at $11 anyways since he had a feeling Tavares wanted to "come home", then I'll concede the point. Full marks to Dubas for taking advantage.

Just interested in seeing how the rest of his negotiations will play out, after the first one going to smoothly.

 

[Critical13]

Hey, nothing against Tavares, he was offered the deal to live out his dream, and he took it. Any one of us would've done the same.

My point is that PERHAPS Leafs GM Kyle Dubas could have shown more foresight with regards to upcoming raises (Nylander, Matthews, Marner), and not sold the farm just to get the deal done.

I'd be interested in knowing whether or not he knew what San Jose offered, going into his meeting. I'm a little hazy on the meeting schedule, or whether or not Tavares' camp could even share that info. Probably not, actually.

It just keeps getting better.

More guessing, and more assumptions.

You're right, I am sure one of the most sought after young hockey minds had no idea about the other contracts coming up! Oops!

Do you know what selling the farm means? It means liquidating your assets. Which assets have we liquidated? Or are you, once again, making an assumption?

 

[Critical13]

I know, I'm just curious if the other teams were aware of what else was being bid, or if Tavares was allowed to disclose that information. Again, probably not.

If Dubas knew going in that Wilson offered $13 mil, and came in at $11 anyways since he had a feeling Tavares wanted to "come home", then I'll concede the point. Full marks to Dubas for taking advantage.

Just interested in seeing how the rest of his negotiations will play out, after the first one going to smoothly.

Clearly, the only thing you are really interested in right now is instigating arguments with Leaf fans, and doing an awful job of providing reason.

If you would have come out and said "This is all just my speculation, but...." I could have at least respected you were upfront. Instead, you're posting your subjective assumptions as fact. That's what lazy internet hacks do when they want to do a drive by....enter a discussion, lob a couple dumb, controversial grenades and then retreat once everyone is riled up.

 

[Human]

meh, I probably like Tavares more as a player, but you really can't go wrong either way. the difference in contracts is definitely nothing crazy considering the caliber of the players involved in this comparison.