Seguin at $9.85M or Tavares at $11M

Who would you rather have on your team?


  • Total voters
    618

Dr Pepper

Registered User
Dec 9, 2005
70,349
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It just keeps getting better.

More guessing, and more assumptions.

You're right, I am sure one of the most sought after young hockey minds had no idea about the other contracts coming up! Oops!

Do you know what selling the farm means? It means liquidating your assets. Which assets have we liquidated? Or are you, once again, making an assumption?

Selling the farm? My bad, I meant backing up a dump truck full of money. Essentially pulling out all the stops to make a deal go through. Pick your idiom.

And with Nylander still unsigned, and two superior players due for huge raises in a year, it's going to be quite the test for Dubas to get all four signed at a rate that won't handicap his team financially.

If he can pull it off, hey, full credit to Kyle Dubas.
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
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Toronto, Ontario
I know, I'm just curious if the other teams were aware of what else was being bid, or if Tavares was allowed to disclose that information. Again, probably not.

If Dubas knew going in that Wilson offered $13 mil, and came in at $11 anyways since he had a feeling Tavares wanted to "come home", then I'll concede the point. Full marks to Dubas for taking advantage.

Just interested in seeing how the rest of his negotiations will play out, after the first one going to smoothly.
You have to assume that the Islanders offer was worth the most because they had the advantage of giving Tavares that 8th year. So besides that and what the Sharks offer was, it was never leaked what the Lightning, Bruins and Stars offers was.
 

Dr Pepper

Registered User
Dec 9, 2005
70,349
15,497
Sunny Etobicoke
Clearly, the only thing you are really interested in right now is instigating arguments with Leaf fans, and doing an awful job of providing reason.

If you would have come out and said "This is all just my speculation, but...." I could have at least respected you were upfront. Instead, you're posting your subjective assumptions as fact. That's what lazy internet hacks do when they want to do a drive by....enter a discussion, lob a couple dumb, controversial grenades and then retreat once everyone is riled up.

Seems like the only one taking issue with my reasoning is you. :dunno:

Also....when did I retreat?
 

Dr Pepper

Registered User
Dec 9, 2005
70,349
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Sunny Etobicoke
You have to assume that the Islanders offer was worth the most because they had the advantage of giving Tavares that 8th year. So besides that and what the Sharks offer was, it was never leaked what the Lightning, Bruins and Stars offers was.

Nope, that's true.

I think fans of those latter three teams didn't really have much hope to begin with, though. Happy just to be invited. :laugh:
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
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Toronto, Ontario
Selling the farm? My bad, I meant backing up a dump truck full of money. Essentially pulling out all the stops to make a deal go through. Pick your idiom.

And with Nylander still unsigned, and two superior players due for huge raises in a year, it's going to be quite the test for Dubas to get all four signed at a rate that won't handicap his team financially.

If he can pull it off, hey, full credit to Kyle Dubas.
I'm not comparing them as GM's but when Steve Yzerman was the Lightning GM no one ever questioned how could he fit Stamkos, Headman, Kucherov and McDonagh under the cap and he did all that, plus they were considered favorites to trade for Erik Karlsson. So before you judge Dubas those signings by Yzerman proves it can be done.
 

Dr Pepper

Registered User
Dec 9, 2005
70,349
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Sunny Etobicoke
I'm not comparing them as GM's but when Steve Yzerman was the Lightning GM no one ever questioned how could he fit Stamkos, Headman, Kucherov and McDonagh under the cap and he did all that, plus they were considered favorites to trade for Erik Karlsson. So before you judge Dubas those signings by Yzerman proves it can be done.

Excellent point.

Maybe Dubas can do the same. I'm assuming he'll at least manage to get Nylander to opt-in before October.
 

Critical13

Fear is the mind-killer.
Feb 25, 2017
12,617
9,435
Sitting at a desk.
Selling the farm? My bad, I meant backing up a dump truck full of money. Essentially pulling out all the stops to make a deal go through. Pick your idiom.

And with Nylander still unsigned, and two superior players due for huge raises in a year, it's going to be quite the test for Dubas to get all four signed at a rate that won't handicap his team financially.

If he can pull it off, hey, full credit to Kyle Dubas.

The point, though, was you felt like he did something wrong with the Tavares signing. Then I pointed out that "better" GMs offered more, and he got a discount, which you also seemed to ignore with "well any monkey could have signed that deal". You've said that you know he's was going to be a Leaf no matter what, which simply doesn't line up with anything that's come out publically other than him being a Leaf fan as a kid (how many players say that playing for xxxxx organization is a dream come true?).

The Leafs aren't handicapped - we all knew that this would be a tough time. Is Chevy a bad GM because he might lose Trouba and had to bridge JoMo? No. Not to mention, Nylander won't just walk to FA. If we ever dealt him, we would get very good assets for him. Same goes for Marner and Matthews.

Lots of options for cap relief on our organization. Bridge deals, trading futures to move contracts, letting Gardiner walk and replacing him with an internal option, moving Zaitsev, moving Brown, not to mention Marleau is off the books next season.
 
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Dr Pepper

Registered User
Dec 9, 2005
70,349
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Sunny Etobicoke
The point, though, was you felt like he did something wrong with the Tavares signing. Then I pointed out that "better" GMs offered more, and he got a discount, which you also seemed to ignore with "well any monkey could have signed that deal". You've said that you know he's was going to be a Leaf no matter what, which simply doesn't line up with anything that's come out publically other than him being a Leaf fan as a kid (how many players say that playing for xxxxx organization is a dream come true?).

The Leafs aren't handicapped - we all knew that this would be a tough time. Is Chevy a bad GM because he might lose Trouba and had to bridge JoMo? No. Not to mention, Nylander won't just walk to FA. If we ever dealt him, we would get very good assets for him. Same goes for Marner and Matthews.

Lots of options for cap relief on our organization. Bridge deals, trading futures to move contracts, letting Gardiner walk and replacing him with an internal option, moving Zaitsev, moving Brown, not to mention Marleau is off the books next season.

I've given Dubas credit several times for inking Tavares. But here, I'll do it once more. Kudos on the signing.

Yes, better GMs that Kyle Dubas did offer more money, but they weren't GM of the Leafs at the time. Dubas is. Advantage Dubas.

And you can include me with the multitude of fans on here (and in the local media) who weren't at all surprised that Tavares signed with the Leafs. Can you honestly say you had any doubts that he'd sign here? I knew there was a brief sliver of hope when I heard that he was giving Dallas a chance to make a pitch but I knew they weren't really in the running.

Glad they re-upped Seguin for less than that, anyways.

Agreed, Dubas would likely get a king's ransom for any of the trio he currently has at his disposal. But he's gone on the record saying the plan is to keep them all. I'm sure he'll figure something out. Signing Tavares for less would've made it easier. There's no reason to get upset in realizing this.
 

Critical13

Fear is the mind-killer.
Feb 25, 2017
12,617
9,435
Sitting at a desk.
I've given Dubas credit several times for inking Tavares. But here, I'll do it once more. Kudos on the signing.

Yes, better GMs that Kyle Dubas did offer more money, but they weren't GM of the Leafs at the time. Dubas is. Advantage Dubas.

And you can include me with the multitude of fans on here (and in the local media) who weren't at all surprised that Tavares signed with the Leafs. Can you honestly say you had any doubts that he'd sign here? I knew there was a brief sliver of hope when I heard that he was giving Dallas a chance to make a pitch but I knew they weren't really in the running.

Glad they re-upped Seguin for less than that, anyways.

Agreed, Dubas would likely get a king's ransom for any of the trio he currently has at his disposal. But he's gone on the record saying the plan is to keep them all. I'm sure he'll figure something out. Signing Tavares for less would've made it easier. There's no reason to get upset in realizing this.

Signing Tavares for less was never a realistic option, though. Infact, 11 million was the lowest offer made, by all accounts.

Did you expect John to leave 4 million on the table? Leaving 2 million (and more in taxes) is an impressive deal for Dubas.

Giving up 1 million extra per year to get a UFA that good far trumps any other option we had for acquiring a player that good (excluding the draft, obviously).

Will you still be around if Tavares has an excellent season?
 
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LeafsNation75

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Jan 15, 2010
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Can you honestly say you had any doubts that he'd sign here? I knew there was a brief sliver of hope when I heard that he was giving Dallas a chance to make a pitch but I knew they weren't really in the running.
Honestly I thought Tavares was going to re-sign with the Islanders just like we saw Stamkos re-sign with the Lightning. I also thought if he was to leave the Islanders it was going to be for the Sharks. Now once it became 12:00 AM EST on July 1st and there was no reports about him re-singing with the Islanders since it was the deadline for him to get that 8th year, I said to myself he's at least going to not re-sign with them. When the news broke that Tyler Bozak signed in St. Louis I said to myself that's when Tavares was going to Toronto because who else could be replacing Bozak? Plus the fact that before July 1st it was reported how Calgary was going to sign Derek Ryan and he was the only other centre who was possibly being linked to Toronto.
 

Dr Pepper

Registered User
Dec 9, 2005
70,349
15,497
Sunny Etobicoke
Signing Tavares for less was never a realistic option, though. Infact, 11 million was the lowest offer made, by all accounts.

Did you expect John to leave 4 million on the table? Leaving 2 million (and more in taxes) is an impressive deal for Dubas.

Giving up 1 million extra per year to get a UFA that good far trumps any other option we had for acquiring a player that good (excluding the draft, obviously).

Will you still be around if Tavares has an excellent season?

Are you certain of this? What did Boston offer him?

Now who's "stating facts"? :p: ;)

Also, I've been here for thirteen years. Chances are I'll still be around in 2019.

Honestly I thought Tavares was going to re-sign with the Islanders just like we saw Stamkos re-sign with the Lightning. I also thought if he was to leave the Islanders it was going to be for the Sharks. Now once it became 12:00 AM EST on July 1st and there was no reports about him re-singing with the Islanders since it was the deadline for him to get that 8th year, I said to myself he's at least going to not re-sign with them. When the news broke that Tyler Bozak signed in St. Louis I said to myself that's when Tavares was going to Toronto because who else could be replacing Bozak? Plus the fact that before July 1st it was reported how Calgary was going to sign Derek Ryan and he was the only other centre who was possibly being linked to Toronto.

I forgot all about Bozak signing with the Blues. :laugh:
 

Critical13

Fear is the mind-killer.
Feb 25, 2017
12,617
9,435
Sitting at a desk.
Are you certain of this? What did Boston offer him?

Now who's "stating facts"? :p: ;)

Also, I've been here for thirteen years. Chances are I'll still be around in 2019.



I forgot all about Bozak signing with the Blues. :laugh:

That's why I said "by all accounts". No account reported Boston's offer.
 

The Nuge

Some say…
Jan 26, 2011
27,335
7,242
British Columbia
Without question? Not only is there a question, many feel Seguin is better.

Ok. I’m not sure what your point is. You’re upset someone doesn’t agree with your opinion of who the better player is? I just don’t think that Seguin is better, and the salary isn’t nearly different enough to make me take Seguin. You’re welcome to prefer Seguin to Tavares. I don’t.
 
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Critical13

Fear is the mind-killer.
Feb 25, 2017
12,617
9,435
Sitting at a desk.
Ok. I’m not sure what your point is. You’re upset someone doesn’t agree with your opinion of who the better player is? I just don’t think that Seguin is better, and the salary isn’t nearly different enough to make me take Seguin. You’re welcome to prefer Seguin to Tavares. I don’t.

I voted Seguin but I respect that.

Tavares will likely vindicate you this season, I'm thinking it will be a good year for him.
 

Rants Mulliniks

Registered User
Jun 22, 2008
22,958
6,029
What about when one player displays a greater than 50% drop in playoff versus regular season scoring while the other displays virtually no drop and has one of the better all time playoff production rates? Does that do anything to the scales?

I would like to say I am shocked at the lack of response but......

Maybe not such a dead heat?
 

Connor McConnor

Registered User
Nov 22, 2017
5,243
6,011
The poll results are definitely a little ridiculous for my liking considering how close this is (anyone see that GGG v. Canelo fight?) .. Wouldn't mind saying it's a draw but if I had to pick one right now I think it's Seguin only because last season was easily, in my opinion, his best year as a hockey player and I think he has another level to go.
 

WJCJ

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
1,641
686
I take Tavares. I will always take the guy who does well in the playoffs over the guy who doesn't.
 

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