Seattle's in. Now let's focus on Quebec... and blowing up this insane East-West alignment.

[patnyrnyg]

Leafs and Buffalo will always be the same division for $$$ reasons

Yes, but you can say that for a lot of combos, but if another re-alignment comes there will be at least one that gets broken up. We have had many re-alignment threads on here and lots of posts that said things like, "No way that happens, the Pens and Flyers have to be together..." and "Pens and Caps have to be together.." "Rangers Isles Devils have to be together..." "Devils have to be with Flyers..." "Flyers and Rangers need to be together...". I could go on.

But, just to play Devil's advocate, how much money does the Sabres-Leafs rivalry generate? Yes, I saw some of last night's game. Yes, I know the Leafs is a guaranteed sell-out for the Sabres. However, that is 1 extra game for the Sabres. If they only had the Leafs in one time, is that really going to have THAT BIG of an impact on the Sabres bottom-line? Believe me, I would want the Sabres and Leafs to stay together under any realignment. But, to say it is done because of money is simply not true.

 

[PCSPounder]

My ever-present I WILL MOVE ALL THE TEAMS TO THE WEST COAST rant is more realistic than this.

 

[Gnashville]

NHL wasn't interested in expanding to quebec at all.

Walk up to the BOG with a $650,000,000 check and see if they are interested

 

[shmglsky]

Walk up to the BOG with a $650,000,000 check and see if they are interested

They weren't interested in a $500,000,000 check.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Walk up to the BOG with a $650,000,000 check and see if they are interested

Quebec was one of the 2 cities that actually submitted a bid last time. They were ready and willing to pay the fee everyone else said was too high.

 

[garbageteam]

If money was the sole and only barrier, they would already have a team approved.

 

[BattleBorn]

If money was the sole and only barrier, they would already have a team approved.

I honestly think money is a huge barrier for Quebec. Not the only barrier, but I think people have vastly overestimated the amount of money Quebecor could put into a team, and I haven’t heard much about minority owners knocking on their door to help the Nords return.

 

[Ernie]

As long as the Canadian dollar is in its current doldrums, there is no way that Quebecor can justify a $650m USD expansion fee. For a comparison, Winnipeg is currently worth $415m, according to Forbes. That's fine for them, as it represents a more than doubling of their purchase price.

But a publicly owned company is not going to make a $870m CAD investment just to barely break even on it.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Leafs and Buffalo will always be the same division for $$$ reasons

Boston is far closer to NYC than most of there division and the Bruins have had a great rivalry with Philly some years they always seem put in the same division as the teams from Eastern Canada and Buffalo though

 

[mouser]

Quebec was one of the 2 cities that actually submitted a bid last time. They were ready and willing to pay the fee everyone else said was too high.

We know they submitted a bid. We don't know for a fact they were prepared to pay the expansion fee when the expansion process eventually concluded.

The CAD<>USD exchange rate had been dropping for several years, and in the months following the announcement of the Quebecor bid it dropped another 10%. Quebecor's financial statements at the time indicated they were losing significant amounts of money due to the dropping exchange rate.

 

[BattleBorn]

As long as the Canadian dollar is in its current doldrums, there is no way that Quebecor can justify a $650m USD expansion fee. For a comparison, Winnipeg is currently worth $415m, according to Forbes. That's fine for them, as it represents a more than doubling of their purchase price.

But a publicly owned company is not going to make a $870m CAD investment just to barely break even on it.

If the money was on par and the $500MM was still valid, I don't think Quebecor could swing more than a 51% share in the Nords.

Look at their financial statement.

 

[Gnashville]

Quebec was one of the 2 cities that actually submitted a bid last time. They were ready and willing to pay the fee everyone else said was too high.

My opinion is Quebec backed out when the expansion price got to high.

 

[ForumNamePending]

I'll get right to the point...

...and thus avoiding the complications arising from stocking two expansion rosters at the same time.

Well that was one hell of a post.

The CAD<>USD exchange rate had been dropping for several years, and in the months following the announcement of the Quebecor bid it dropped another 10%.

On the deadline day to submit the bid (July 20, 2015) the CAD was actually worth slightly less than on the day (June 22, 2016) the NHL announced they were expanding to Vegas and "deferring" Quebec.

My opinion is Quebec backed out when the expansion price got to high.

The expansion price tag of $500 million was widely reported well before the deadline to submit a bid. For fans of irony here's an article from May 17, 2015 reporting that the $500 million price tag might be too hefty for Seattle.

I dunno... I guess it's quite possible that the bid from Quebec was a charade from the beginning, but doesn't occam's razor point to the NHL simply not really being interested in a small market like QC, and willing to wait things out for a market as attractive as Seattle to get its issues sorted? I mean if the plan is to stay at 32 teams for the foreseeable future it isn't hard to see why the league had Seattle at the top of their list to be that 32nd franchise.

 

[rfournier103]

Boston is far closer to NYC than most of there division and the Bruins have had a great rivalry with Philly some years they always seem put in the same division as the teams from Eastern Canada and Buffalo though

The Bruins - Canadiens rivalry is the top rivalry in the NHL. There’s no way they’ll ever be separated again. For some reason, Boston - New York just isn’t a thing in the NHL like Red Sox - Yankees; Patriots - Jets; or even Patriots - Giants in their respective leagues.

 

[mouser]

On the deadline day to submit the bid (July 20, 2015) the CAD was actually worth slightly less than on the day (June 22, 2016) the NHL announced they were expanding to Vegas and "deferring" Quebec.

I’m award of that. There was a rebound as the exchange rate recovered later during the period. Though it’s been largely flat since then.

I also assume the NHL’s real decision was made well ahead of the June 2016 formal announcement; and that Quebecor’s plan to submit a bid was also decided on long before the formal NHL announcement in July 2015 when the exchange rate was even higher.

 

[MNNumbers]

With regard to Quebec....

The expansion process there was aimed at Seattle and Vegas. So, when Foley waved his $500M in the air, the NHL took it. But they needed to save room for Seattle, and thus Quebec was deferred.

I respect the opinions of those who say that they can't afford it now. And, that, being a public company makes it more difficult. And, that they need minority investors.

But, I still believe that the matter is 'on the table' not off it, with regard to the idea of a team there.

 

[KCC]

Better to go after untapped potential first. Quebec will have its time again and that is probably a lot more closer now that the conferences have an equal amount of teams. It's just a matter of how the NHL will go about it. I would assume expansion is the best way for them but I guess we will see if a team folds in the next 5-10 years. If it does, it's theres.

 

[Final Baton]

I have lost all hopes of ever having a team here again
Not only that, but I am tired of the emotional rollercoasters... of having a glimmer of hope, only to have it squashed

That's why I decided to make my grieving process. at least I won't ever be hurt by this again...

 

[TheLegend]

That will not happen. Seattle is the last market willing to pay 650m.

I remember you saying no one would pay that for Seattle.

 

[TheLegend]

With regard to Quebec....

The expansion process there was aimed at Seattle and Vegas. So, when Foley waved his $500M in the air, the NHL took it. But they needed to save room for Seattle, and thus Quebec was deferred.

I respect the opinions of those who say that they can't afford it now. And, that, being a public company makes it more difficult. And, that they need minority investors.

But, I still believe that the matter is 'on the table' not off it, with regard to the idea of a team there.

IIRC..... they (Quebcor) were looking for a minor investor from the beginning of the bid process. As Mouser pointed out the Canadian dollar was sliding at the time which made it even more difficult than it would have been.

I agree that the possibility for a team is still there. The only problem IMO is you've got at least one influential BoG member who looks at QC as a "landing spot" more than a new member.

 

[gstommylee]

I remember you saying no one would pay that for Seattle.

That's because at the time we didn't have a $$$ guy actually willing to do an all private arena for hockey now NBA later. It helps when you actually have someone willing to write that check for the arena and someone writing that check for a team. The moment OVG shows up with a Billionaire in tow for the NHL team. That changed.

 

[TheLegend]

That's because at the time we didn't have a $$$ guy actually willing to do an all private arena for hockey now NBA later. It helps when you actually have someone willing to write that check for the arena and someone writing that check for a team. The moment OVG shows up with a Billionaire in tow for the NHL team. That changed.

So what makes you think it'll never happen again???

Understand Tommy.... OVG and Co didn't just pop up overnight. There were rumblings about them back when you had no less than three different groups looking to get something done at SoDo, Bellevue and Tukwila.

Guys like this are lurking in the weeds all the time. It's just a matter of getting everything to fall into place for them without drawing attention.

Look at Bob Parsons (GoDaddy) snapping up Westgate Entertainment District in Glendale for what really amounts to a bargain. Nobody saw it coming but when the property was put up for sale the deal was done within a month.

I would suggest OVG had been working on the Key Arena project for quite some time. But laid back on it because if it had been out in the open Chris Hansen would have certainly gone nuclear over it and you might not be celebrating getting a franchise yet.

 

[gstommylee]

So what makes you think it'll never happen again???

Understand Tommy.... OVG and Co didn't just pop up overnight. There were rumblings about them back when you had no less than three different groups looking to get something done at SoDo, Bellevue and Tukwila.

Guys like this are lurking in the weeds all the time. It's just a matter of getting everything to fall into place for them without drawing attention.

Look at Bob Parsons (GoDaddy) snapping up Westgate Entertainment District in Glendale for what really amounts to a bargain. Nobody saw it coming but when the property was put up for sale the deal was done within a month.

I would suggest OVG had been working on the Key Arena project for quite some time. But laid back on it because if it had been out in the open Chris Hansen would have certainly gone nuclear over it and you might not be celebrating getting a franchise yet.

Btw Hansen allowed the city to look at key arena cause he had no choice.

Regarding other markets willing to pay 650m or more for a team. Quebec didn't seem they were able to pay back when it was 500m. Why would that suddenly change today when its 150m more. Houston balked at the price. another Ontario team would cost probably double than what Seattle paid for the team. That includes arena and paying off buffalo and Toronto as well. I just don't see any one else interested in paying that high kind of price.

 

[93LEAFS]

A sport that already has trouble getting good ratings in the states, is not going to shift to an MLB/NFL set-up where key teams are playing more games at off times (4:30 west starts when teams their teams are east, and the opposite for eastern teams).

Why the hell would Rogers who paid a fortune for national TV rights want the Leafs playing more 10:30 or 9:30 games. Plus Canadian teams playing each other more, is probably worse, because while it may lead to higher ratings for individual games, it reduces the total amount of games with significant appeal.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I think that Quebec's ship has already left port when the Flames went to Winnipeg. If the Coyotes move, it really looks like Houston for reasons of geography.

 

[TheLegend]

Btw Hansen allowed the city to look at key arena cause he had no choice.

Regarding other markets willing to pay 650m or more for a team. Quebec didn't seem they were able to pay back when it was 500m. Why would that suddenly change today when its 150m more. Houston balked at the price. another Ontario team would cost probably double than what Seattle paid for the team. That includes arena and paying off buffalo and Toronto as well. I just don't see any one else interested in paying that high kind of price.

Which doesn't mean a whole lot. You could count on lawsuits flying and a public campaign to submarine things and/or delay the process to the point where the competition gives up.

Houston hasn't "balked" at anything. What you have is a guy interested in bringing another tenant to his newly purchased barn and wants a good deal on top of it. It isn't about the sticker price as much as what gets thrown in with it.