Seattle's AHL team trademark of Firebird rejected

[axecrew]

There is absolutely zero chance for Seattle to have a single AHL contracted player because they don't have a team so they can't sign a player to an AHL contract. The can assign the heck out of players to the AHL and ECHL but there is absolutely no way for them to have an AHL contracted player. AHL contracted players are not tied to any NHL team, they are tied only to the AHL team.



You have no clue what you are talking about. You were totally wrong about the Panthers affiliation and I expect you to apologize to everyone on this board for the error of your ways.....

Tommy I throw myself on the mercy of nurse able

 

[JMCx4]

Tommy I throw myself on the mercy of nurse able

Thanks for leaving Lt. Dish for me.

 

[LadyStanley]

There is absolutely zero chance for Seattle to have a single AHL contracted player because they don't have a team so they can't sign a player to an AHL contract. The can assign the heck out of players to the AHL and ECHL but there is absolutely no way for them to have an AHL contracted player. AHL contracted players are not tied to any NHL team, they are tied only to the AHL team.

Not exactly. Players on NHL ELS deals can be assigned to AHL and/or ECHL with impunity. But players on subsequent NHL contracts can be assigned to AHL without issue (waivers notwithstanding); but must give permission to be assigned to ECHL.

Seattle may have ELS deals from undrafted free agents and perhaps their first round draftee, but unlikely many more (unless a team trades a guy on ELS deal as part of conditional trade to protect/select another player).

But they will probably have a dearth of journeymen type guys from expansion draft they have to find homes for -- all on 2nd or 3rd contracts.

 

[royals119]

Your point? All except for two or three like Pirri and Whitecloud were NHL-contracted players signed well before the start of the season. They didn't have many minor-league contracted players I can think of for their inaugural season. That's what I was saying, non-NHL players. Vegas had an AHL team which was predominantly theirs, albeit shared in theory with St. Louis and they still almost had no minor-league contracted players. Seattle is planning to send their prospects to any team that will take them and will have even less.

Maybe I misunderstood you. You said Seattle won't have more than a few "non-NHL" players. I thought you meant players under contract who aren't playing in the NHL. My point was they likely will have 10, or more, players on NHL contract who won't fit on their NHL roster who they will have to find a place for in the AHL or ECHL. Vegas numbers were provided for comparison.
As others have already said, they won't have any AHL contracted players. They could possibly identify some players they are interested in who they don't want to sign to NHL contracts, and encourage a friendly AHL team to sign those players, and provide scouting reports or coaching assistance for those players. But they have no way to sign players to AHL contacts themselves.

 

[LadyStanley]

@royals119 it is possible Seattle has less than 10 non-NHL roster players.

Yes, they have to pick 30 players in the expansion draft, but they might trade some (as VGK did with Schlemko, traded for pick). VGK also was induced to pick a few UFAs that didn't end up re-signing with the organization.

I think it will be interesting to see who, if any, undrafted free agents they sign out of college, CHL, USHL, Europe. They may want to sign them sooner than later to help develop them with the plan of having them available for the NHL after some development. The Europeans might get loaned back to Europe; the CHLers might return for overage season.

Lots of options. Lots of unknowns.

 

[royals119]

@royals119 it is possible Seattle has less than 10 non-NHL roster players.

Yes, they have to pick 30 players in the expansion draft, but they might trade some (as VGK did with Schlemko, traded for pick). VGK also was induced to pick a few UFAs that didn't end up re-signing with the organization.

I think it will be interesting to see who, if any, undrafted free agents they sign out of college, CHL, USHL, Europe. They may want to sign them sooner than later to help develop them with the plan of having them available for the NHL after some development. The Europeans might get loaned back to Europe; the CHLers might return for overage season.

Lots of options. Lots of unknowns.

Sure, anything is possible.

I still feel like it is unlikely they go with "a few", considering most would think that means 3-4, and they are surely going to sign at least two extra goaltenders, which would leave them with only 1-2 extra skaters. I would be very surprised if the number was closer to 3 than 10. I would bet the over if the line was 7.5

If I was putting together an NHL roster from scratch I would want at least four forwards, two defensemen and three goalies beyond the typical 14/7/2 (or 13/8/2). Particularly considering Covid-19 will likely still be an issue, although hopefully less of a problem by that point - and the league will probably find a way to get players vaccinated earlier than the general population of young healthy people.
(This is assuming there is still a 23 man roster limit. Seems like there might be some kind of "black aces" roster for 20-21, but likely not for 21-22)

 

[LadyStanley]

The NHL has the roster # limit, and given the flat cap, I really doubt the league allows any extras/black aces for the RS.

The only way I can see "black aces" is if the AHL doesn't play at all.


I can see 2 extra goalies (recall that VGK had to do emergency recall of their 5th goalie from juniors when they got down to three on the IR), 4 extra D, and 6 extra F.

 

[210]

I can easily see the NHL having a "taxi squad" of players available that are not eligible to play in games unless a player gets sick or is put on LTIR. I don't even think it's that much of a stretch. This way the NHL team can make sure that potential replacement players won't have an increased chance of getting sick by having to practice and play under conditions that the organization doesn't control.

 

[royals119]

I can easily see the NHL having a "taxi squad" of players available that are not eligible to play in games unless a player gets sick or is put on LTIR. I don't even think it's that much of a stretch. This way the NHL team can make sure that potential replacement players won't have an increased chance of getting sick by having to practice and play under conditions that the organization doesn't control.

For 20-21 I think that is possible. If so it will be interesting how they handle it as far as waivers and cap. I would assume it would be the same as sending a player to the AHL. For 21-22, (which is the topic of this thread - i.e. Seattle), I don't think it would happen, unless things change dramatically and the AHL isn't operating, or has multiple teams fold.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Oak View Group overhauls Palm Springs arena plan - Arena Digest

The Palm Springs deal has been revised to a nearby site.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

I can easily see the NHL having a "taxi squad" of players available that are not eligible to play in games unless a player gets sick or is put on LTIR. I don't even think it's that much of a stretch. This way the NHL team can make sure that potential replacement players won't have an increased chance of getting sick by having to practice and play under conditions that the organization doesn't control.

Like the NFL's practice squad..........

 

[210]

Like the NFL's practice squad..........

Exactly.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Not exactly. Players on NHL ELS deals can be assigned to AHL and/or ECHL with impunity. But players on subsequent NHL contracts can be assigned to AHL without issue (waivers notwithstanding); but must give permission to be assigned to ECHL.

Seattle may have ELS deals from undrafted free agents and perhaps their first round draftee, but unlikely many more (unless a team trades a guy on ELS deal as part of conditional trade to protect/select another player).

But they will probably have a dearth of journeymen type guys from expansion draft they have to find homes for -- all on 2nd or 3rd contracts.

Yes, as I said they can assign until the cows come home, but they cannot sign a player to an AHL contract. They can assign all they want but cannot sign a player to an AHL contract. Their AHL team can sign one to an AHL contract but they can't.

 

[gstommylee]

Yes, as I said they can assign until the cows come home, but they cannot sign a player to an AHL contract. They can assign all they want but cannot sign a player to an AHL contract. Their AHL team can sign one to an AHL contract but they can't.

You heard of 2 way contracts no?

 

[210]

You heard of 2 way contracts no?

You know that players signed to NHL two-way contracts don't have AHL contracts, they only have an NHL contract that lists a separate salary for the minor leagues, right?

 

[axecrew]

You know that players signed to NHL two-way contracts don't have AHL contracts, they only have an NHL contract that lists a separate salary for the minor leagues, right?

Apparently not.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

You heard of 2 way contracts no?

1) Yes some NHL contracts have 2-way movement between the NHL and AHL. NHL contract

2) AHL has contract that have 2 way movement between the AHL and the ECHL. AHL contract

3) And 3 way NHL contracts have 3 way movement between the NHL, AHL, and ECHL. NHL contract

Please note that the only AHL contract is number 2 above.

You know that players signed to NHL two-way contracts don't have AHL contracts, they only have an NHL contract that lists a separate salary for the minor leagues, right?

You don't say.......

Apparently not.

The NHL CBA is a pain to read. I read the most recent one but I have decided if they do anything to it again, I will not read it.

 

[LadyStanley]

All NHL contracts, excluding NMC, have the ability to move/assignment to the AHL. (Some contracts, called two-way, have different levels of pay depending on major/minor league assignment.) Now, a player may have to clear waivers to be assigned. (And a player with a NMC can waive to be assigned. Which sometimes happens for an injury rehab stint.)

ELS NHL contracts can have the ability for players to be assigned to NHL, AHL or ECHL. Post-ELS NHL contracts nominally exclude assignment to the ECHL (IOW, AHL or NHL only; or loaned to Europe); however, players can choose to be assigned to ECHL.

@Tommy Hawk - I have read through the 2013 CBA. But haven't seen the changes implemented this summer.

 

[210]

NHL contracts other than ELCs don't "nominally exclude" being assigned to the ECHL, the CBA does that in clear and concise language.