Season Wrap Thoughts

[Randy Randerson]

The thing that the Washington Capitals Cup run should have taught us is that there is no singular way to win a Cup. The Caps won their first Cup with a core pushing 30. As for not having the money or high draft picks to supplement the core, that's why you have a scouting staff. A high draft pick is no excuse not to find serviceable talent. A franchise like the Leafs, with the resources at their disposal should not have this issue.

Washington is the outlier though, teams built that way are usually winning their cups with their young stars under 25/26, when you're building along this blueprint you're looking to be Pittsburgh/Chicago not Washington.

High draft picks are dramatically more likely to yield star caliber talent, and a franchise not being able to get out of the first round with the talent we have may well need more star caliber talent. If finding the next Aho/Kucherov with 2nd round picks is what you're hitching your chances to, you're putting yourself into a situation that you're very unlikely to succeed.

A franchise like the Leafs with the player personnel they have should also not have trouble getting out of the first round, it's been more along the "expected outcome" curve in previous years as we were coming out of a rebuild, but this year needed to be better and the long term huge AAV commitments to a small number of players is going to tie their hands to significantly supplement outside of the draft while also having started to trade away first round picks.

I'm not saying that we're doomed, I'm saying that if there isn't marked improvement next year in the outcome, it will be time to think about cashing in some high value players for a do-over at the rebuild because the management of this team has likely mis-played their hand and will be too cap-committed with too few high ceiling non-roster pieces to really change it.

JVR/Bozak should have been traded for futures, Gardiner maybe as well, none of that would have changed the outcomes in their respective years (except possibly for the better). Nylander and Matthews were probably paid too much, Marner probably will be as well.

And again I want to re-iterate that I'm an optimist, I was as high as anyone on this version of the Leafs being able to contend for a long time. They're starting to really rattle that outlook with their results, and the outlook isn't likely to improve from here as we start to deal from the non-roster asset base and commit huge money to a small number of players. They need to prove they're a championship level team next year, otherwise I think the best course of action for the franchise is to start taking it apart and getting huge futures return for some of the valuable parts so they (probably under new management) can try again.

 

[Trapper]

We just need better defence and better special teams + a little overall toughness. Marleau, Gardiner, Zaitzev, Brown, Nylander, Kadri should be in consideration for trading.

Ennis and Moore showed great heart in the playoffs, which should give them ice time next year imo

Gardiner + Hainsey out. 7 million out.
We need to find a top 4 D (like Pesce) at 4 million.
Then the Dermott + the other kids can play for the bottom pair.
Tradable assets as you state above.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Don't let another season of the same issues despite changing up players occur. Babcock has clearly indicated he's not interested in change, is in no way accountable, and he hasn't learned a thing from last year

 

[4StevieBlunder4]

I had one expectation of this year that I thought was fair- make it to round 2. If we were swept in round 2, the year would have still been a success to me.

Losing again in a game 7, and not even leading in that game, makes the year a failure. We did not meet the expectation. Now the positive is our issues were on full display and therefore no longer is there an excuse to ignore them.

Babcock: Like the guy, think he’s a good coach, but he let me down with his stubbornness. Maybe it’s time to move on. I mean Marleau was out for way too much valuable ice time in the last two games especially. Even the staunchest Babcock fans should be hard pressed to explain that away.

Assistant Coaches: Dear god our special teams was brutal. If Babs gets another shot, these guys can’t. That simple.

Kadri: Needed him and he was AWOL. Again. Maybe I’m just bitter but this guy needs to shape up or ship out. And honestly that is generous considering how long he’s been here already and his constantly recurring issues. If we can’t rely on him in the playoffs, why bother with him at all?

Nylander: He aggravated me too. I dunno if he is trade-worthy yet, maybe give him a full year with the team, and MUCH better line mates. But man, this guy is on the edge of being run out of town. There is truth to the accusations of softness, again that was obvious in games 6 and 7.

Anderson: The people blaming him have an agenda. He gave up the occasional softie, but his many, many game-saving stops more than balance that out.

Defense: Poor. Rielly is a leader, Dermott is still making rookie mistakes (alarming). And Gardiner should be gone. He is waaaaay more of a liability, especially in big moments. Zaitsev I was actually moderately happy with this playoffs, especially considering I had grown to expect very little of him.

Bad year. Lots to look forward to. Should be quite the offseason. I’m not sure now though where the bar is next year.

 

[MJ65]

How long are we going to mourn this season?

 

[Nineteen67]

Yep. The next few weeks will be silent i think. But once Shanny makes up his mind everything will move fast.

Can we expect a little Bab jab tomorrow, or has he been asked to cool it for now?

 

[Nineteen67]

How long are we going to mourn this season?

We merged last year with this preparing us for next....

 

[therealkoho]

Yesterday was my awakening to this fact tbh. I had major doubts about his tactics before but now I just think he might be an outdated coach like Carlyle.

Also, Matthews and Nylander better be on the same line for 82 games next year.

why?
do you think they're going out west together as a package!

Nylander is gone bud, he bit the hand that feeds him. You can talk all you want about "oh, it's only business!" in regard to his contract but the fact remains that he showed zero loyalty to the organization and because of that they owe him nothing. Loyalty is a fact that need's to be factored into any negotiation and William Nylander proved faithless. He told them he was in great shape and ready to go, he was anything but, the Leafs had to make up the "12 game nonsense" to cover for him, and he wasn't even ready by game 20. If you want to call it just business, the employee showed little regard for his employer and that is grounds for dismissal, especially as his indifferent play factored into the Leafs being eliminated.

 

[therealkoho]

nvm

 

[DarkKnight]

Gardiner + Hainsey out. 7 million out.
We need to find a top 4 D (like Pesce) at 4 million.
Then the Dermott + the other kids can play for the bottom pair.
Tradable assets as you state above.

A Pesce type player to replace Zaitsev would be a truly big upgrade.

 

[Trapper]

A Pesce type player to replace Zaitsev would be a truly big upgrade.

I'm not even thinking of replacing Zaitsev. I'm talking in addition too.
I thought the Muzzin/Zaitsev pairing was fine. Now add a Rielly/Pesce.

This gives Dermott/Rosen/Liljegren the shelter they need to progress. 82 games is new territory for Rosen/Lily/Sandin. You need a viable top 4 and you need to move out forward dollars for it.
If Kapanen gets you Pesce, make the move. Obviously if you can shed Marleau that would be great.
Then you can pair it up at forward.

 

[DarkKnight]

I'm not even thinking of replacing Zaitsev. I'm talking in addition too.
I thought the Muzzin/Zaitsev pairing was fine. Now add a Rielly/Pesce.

This gives Dermott/Rosen/Liljegren the shelter they need to progress. 82 games is new territory for Rosen/Lily/Sandin. You need a viable top 4 and you need to move out forward dollars for it.
If Kapanen gets you Pesce, make the move. Obviously if you can shed Marleau that would be great.
Then you can pair it up at forward.

I don't think Zaits is a top 4 D man. When I said replace, he could still be a decent bottom pairing. Can you afford that though?

I think we are going to need 2 D man. I can see Hainsey sticking around though...if I thought we could use him for depth might be okay but I know he will play 23 a night.

 

[Trapper]

I don't think Zaits is a top 4 D man. When I said replace, he could still be a decent bottom pairing. Can you afford that though?

I think we are going to need 2 D man. I can see Hainsey sticking around though...if I thought we could use him for depth might be okay but I know he will play 23 a night.

Do you think this is outrageous expenditure on D for a contender:
Rielly 5 - Pesce 4
Muzzin 4 - Zaitsev 4.5
Dermott - Rosen - Lily 800+ K.

 

[DarkKnight]

Do you think this is outrageous expenditure on D for a contender:
Rielly 5 - Pesce 4
Muzzin 4 - Zaitsev 4.5
Dermott - Rosen - Lily 800+ K.

No. If you leave Zaits in top 4. My comment was if he's a bottom pair can you afford that expenditure.

Zaitsev has some nice games this series, and he did look a lot better away from Gardiner. I'm still not sold a D is cup caliber with him in the top 4, he has glaring weaknesses in his game.

So how are we getting Pesce? Nylander? That trade doesn't looks as egregious as some argue, at least to me.

 

[Trapper]

No. If you leave Zaits in top 4. My comment was if he's a bottom pair can you afford that expenditure.

Zaitsev has some nice games this series, and he did look a lot better away from Gardiner. I'm still not sold a D is cup caliber with him in the top 4, he has glaring weaknesses in his game.

So how are we getting Pesce? Nylander? That trade doesn't looks as egregious as some argue, at least to me.

I was thinking more Kapanen or Kadri for Pesce.
Hyman/Heavier winger...Matthews...Marner/Nylander
Hyman/Heavier winger...JT...Marner/Nylander
Moore...3C...Johnsson
The rest

 

[DarkKnight]

I was thinking more Kapanen or Kadri for Pesce.
Hyman/Heavier winger...Matthews...Marner/Nylander
Hyman/Heavier winger...JT...Marner/Nylander
Moore...3C...Johnsson
The rest

Kadri would get it done, don't think Kap. Not sure what do at C then, we really have no depth in the organization either.

I agree "heavier winger", not because I favour a bruising team, but we lack that balance up front...we need to find the right mix of skill and grit. And we're seeing that this playoffs, no question.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Thought it deserved its own thread. Crazy stuff.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kadri would get it done, don't think Kap. Not sure what do at C then, we really have no depth in the organization either.

I agree "heavier winger", not because I favour a bruising team, but we lack that balance up front...we need to find the right mix of skill and grit. And we're seeing that this playoffs, no question.

I'm not so sure Kadri gets us Pesce in fact I doubt it. If he does I do that trade instantly but it's hard to see how Kadri's value hasn't plummeted, at least for a team that wants to win in the playoffs.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I want Kadri gone, screw that selfish immature player. He lost us the series again.

 

[IPS]

I want Kadri gone, screw that selfish immature player. He lost us the series again.

He was a factor for sure but it's irrational to nail it all on him for being the sole reason.

 

[Trapper]

I'm not so sure Kadri gets us Pesce in fact I doubt it. If he does I do that trade instantly but it's hard to see how Kadri's value hasn't plummeted, at least for a team that wants to win in the playoffs.

Kapanen added to Aho might be enticing though. Either way, we have Kadri at 4.5 plus need to pay Kap/Johnsson. Don’t see it working unless Marleau gets moved.
But a 22 minute/night D is > than the above.

 

[Notsince67]

Yesterday was my awakening to this fact tbh. I had major doubts about his tactics before but now I just think he might be an outdated coach like Carlyle.

Also, Matthews and Nylander better be on the same line for 82 games next year.

Matthew's wont play 82 games

 

[Trapper]

Matthew's wont play 82 games

And again why Matthews/Nylander?
It could be Matthews/Marner.

Shouldn’t get stuck with only 1 way any more than the coach.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

He was a factor for sure but it's irrational to nail it all on him for being the sole reason.

No, it's perfectly rational, he can't be trusted. He needs to go. Two years in a row he's taken himself out of the series.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Every single player who was supposedly the problem last season are in the second round. Bozak, Martin, Komarov and Polak. Everyone's favorite whipping boys got it done.