Season Wrap Thoughts

DarkKnight

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Jan 17, 2017
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All the stats are in, all the facts, all the results, the season is done in its totality. So how do you access this year for the team?

Big picture, progress was made on a host of fronts. Bottomline though, the season ends up a mild failure, due to lack of tangible results. Plenty of eventually successful teams go through exactly what this young core has experienced, it isn’t “over”, we will have other potential runs at the ultimate prize. However, we’re judging this season, in particular these playoffs.

I’ve defended Babcock, primarily because I’ve seen good growth with so many players, he is pushing them to reach their potential, in my view he is an excellent motivator. I thought we had a terrific game plan against Boston, and up until Game 5 was quite comfortable arguing he was the better coach. What we witnessed in Game 6 and 7 however is in some ways mind blowing, his stubbornness and lack of agility cost this team, to the point the blame lies at his door. 5 v 5, pure hockey, we were the better team, which makes this defeat all the more tough to swallow. Our special teams were awful, and for that reason I want to see a new assistant next year, at the very least. Babcock is officially on the clock, he won’t be fired in my view, but a sluggish start next year, I won’t be a steadfast defender. The coaching staff needs some changes, that is a certainty.

I still can’t figure out how that Andersen goal went in, you look at the net view and I don’t see the room, and yet the puck goes through him. Andersen had his best year as a Leaf, as well his best series, the numbers support that. He did let in a stinker in Game 7, he has to own it, but I’m not laying this series defeat at his door, over all I actually liked his game.

Marleau is done, it happens, time to go. That said, Kadri deserves some real blame here. A third line of Kadri, with Nylander and Marleau, that was effective in the regular season, that looks like a line that could produce in the playoffs. Kadri’s inexcusable suspension-heart in the right place, head short circuited- affected our entire game plan, and maybe that was the difference…given how ineffective our third line was down the stretch.

I’m happy with Matthews growth, he came through this playoffsand showed really progress in his 200 ft game. I’m comfortable giving him the C now, and I think he will rise to that crest. Ditto Marner, a great year for him, the kid is heart and soul, can do it all and will only improve further with maturity. Reilly, Tavares, AJ, Kap, Muzzin, Hyman, key guys, great contributions. Plenty of good individual stories for the Leafsmoving forward, we will be in the playoffs for many years to come in my view.

Dubas. Good trades, great role in signing JT, draft encouraging. Contracts, a failure in my estimation. You sign players to the best deal you can at the time, it really is irrelevant to me if 4 years down the road a “bargain” emerges, a good GM doesn’t need apologize, he’s lauded for the signing. RFA’s don’t have great leverage (well they do now it seems), so in particular theNylander contract was astounding, he extracted pretty much everything from Dubas, I still can’t quite believe it. I give Dubas a pass on the year and to be fair, with a GM, it is never universal success, has to be assessed in totality.

Speaking of Nylander. Given our cap situation, he is the obvious trade candidate in my estimation. Nylander doesn’t play like a “core” player, he is a complimentary piece both in play and inspiration. The question then becomes can you afford to play borderline star money to a secondary piece. In a cap world, the answer is probably no. Nylander will forever be polarizing with this board, the truth lies in the middle, and for myself, the middle still isn’t good enough to justify that contract.

Goodbye Jake, thanks for the painful memories. Love the guy at times, but his mental mistakes will never stop and you simply can’t trust him when needed. I cut him some slack this year because he’s clearly hurt, but that brain cramp last night is VINTAGE Gardiner.

We need to make changes to our D, no question. Sandin looks an option next year, perhaps Lil as well. Dermott had a very uneven season, at his best he is Top 4, but he still seeks consistency to firm up that spot in our lineup. I would look for a D trade, and I wouldn’t really miss Zaitsev.

Overall a decent year, with great progress made on many fronts. That said, bottom line, a very bitter taste this morning and the status quo won’t do moving forward…..

Time for a break.
 

93WrapAround

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Jul 4, 2018
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Way too early to give up on Nylander - it's ONE bad season and it wasn't even a full season. His play was frustrating no doubt, but who wouldn't be frustrated being stuck with AHL talent. He needs to have a huge off-season and I expect a 65+ campaign next year. If that doesn't pan out then you can see what can be done, but he won't be traded this off-season nor do I think he should be. Give him some f-ing adequate linemates before sending him packing.

On that note, I'm personally done with Babcock. There's absolutely no justification for giving Brown and Marleau those minutes instead of Ennis and Moore (or even Petan, etc.). Marleau is beyond cooked and if someone even thought he looked okay (Bob Mackenzie this morning on radio) I simply don't take that opinion or hockey knowledge with much level of seriousness - Babcock included. This guy just refuses to adjust and the fact that he finally put Moore and Ennis with Nylander with 6 minutes left down 2 goals in Game 7 is as much as admission for me that his stubborness has gotten in the way of this team's potential.

Freddy is our best player more often than anyone else but he needs to step the **** up in clutch games going forward. It's become a consistent thing and he needs to figure out why. The 1st goal was flukey and if that same shot happens 1000 times it probably doesn't go in 995 times - there was just no space. The 3rd goal is just inexcusable and was morally deflating.

This D-core will be INFINITELY better without Gards and his consistent brainfarts. I think the arrow is pointing up on defence.
 
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DarkKnight

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Way too early to give up on Nylander - it's ONE bad season and it wasn't even a full season. His play was frustrating no doubt, but who wouldn't be frustrated being stuck with AHL talent. He needs to have a huge off-season and I expect a 65+ campaign next year. If that doesn't pan out then you can see what can be done, but he won't be traded this off-season nor do I think he should be. Give him some f-ing adequate linemates before sending him packing.

On that note, I'm personally done with Babcock. There's absolutely no justification for giving Brown and Marleau those minutes instead of Ennis and Moore (or even Petan, etc.). Marleau is beyond cooked and if someone even thought he looked okay (Bob Mackenzie this morning on radio) I simply don't take that opinion or hockey knowledge with much level of seriousness - Babcock included. This guy just refuses to adjust and the fact that he finally put Moore and Ennis with Nylander with 6 minutes left down 2 goals in Game 7 is as much as admission for me that his stubborness has gotten in the way of this team's potential.

Freddy is our best player more often than anyone else but he needs to step the **** up in clutch games going forward. It's become a consistent thing and he needs to figure out why. The 1st goal was flukey and if that same shot happens 1000 times it probably doesn't go in 995 times - there was just no space. The 3rd goal is just inexcusable and was morally deflating.

This D-core will be INFINITELY better without Gards and his consistent brainfarts. I think the arrow is pointing up on defence.
I wouldn't categorize it as giving up on Nylander, as a trade possibility is more to shore up other needs and he would generate a significant return. I consider it, not saying it has to happen, but that's significant dollars tied up.

I'm done defending Babcock.
 

DarkKnight

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This was a failed season in my opinion.....the Leafs needed to win a round this year in order to have a growth year

If they fire Babcock out of this year tho it will be worth it
Yep. Losing again in the first round hurts, regardless of quality do competition. It was Game 6 for me, that was the real moment to turn the page and move forward...we didn't get it done and the staff failed the team. Andersen is a series hero if we win that game.
 

93WrapAround

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I wouldn't categorize it as giving up on Nylander, as a trade possibility is more to shore up other needs and he would generate a significant return. I consider it, not saying it has to happen, but that's significant dollars tied up.

I'm done defending Babcock.

You'd be selling low no matter how you try to spin it, not a prudent decision in the least. Even the biggest Nylander detractors never imagined the nightmare production that was this season. Trading now would be a panic move and likely for 75 cents on the dollar, at best.
 
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ShaneFalco

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Can't have so much money tied up in AM, JT, MM and WN.
The first three aren't going anywhere

We can only hope PM retires
Dubas and Babcock aren't on the same page, and Babcock is just the wrong fit for this team
Gardiner - he chokes in big games
 

Guided by Veseys

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Nov 14, 2011
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Something was off a bit this year and the end result doesn’t surprise me.
I truly believe it was Babcock that couldn’t make it happen for us.
Of the many issues I have with the coach perhaps the most significant is how he didn’t really cement the Nylander and Matthews pairing again this year. That was one of the top 10 duos in the NHL the season prior. Nylander wasn’t conditioned well initially but even still, it was madness keeping them apart. Everything would have played out so much differently.
 

Buds17

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Quality thoughts as always, DarkKnight.

I'll credit the Leafs for not allowing themselves to be in the position of potentially letting the Boston PP decide Game 7. Where was that discipline to stay out of the sin bin in Game 6 though? Toronto's own PP unfortunately didn't convert on their Game 7 opportunities. The deficit they faced didn't seem overly insurmountable in the 2nd period. Yet, the 3rd period effort came off as listless or uninspired IMO.

Tough 1st period and game for Gardiner, but thankfully not to the extent of a year ago. Wish Andersen prevented that first Boston goal in particular, but giving practically any goalie only one goal in support is asking for too much. The Kadri suspension definitely had an impact on the team's lines. Whether Nylander could have switched with Kapanen at some point is going to stay an unknown, as the need at centre was too much to contemplate otherwise.

It was a season of stalled progress. Same third place in the Atlantic regular season finish, same first round playoff loss postseason finish. Hurts to have had Boston on the ropes with that 3-2 series lead without having the ability to put it away.

Obviously hope to be wrong, but I don't think that one, single move quick fix to transform the Leafs into a Cup winner exists. There are going to be changes, whether through trade and/or free agency and/or promotions from the Marlies, and for a variety of reasons (cap, natural progression of things, to have a different look, etc.)

Enough blame to go around without laying it at any one Leaf's feet (player/coach/management), but three straight seasons with playoffs is still something to build upon. The playoffs have a different look to them on a number of fronts this season. There's even a 2nd round series featuring two teams that missed out entirely last season. If Carolina wins tonight, there will be two of them. One season can bring a lot of change. Hopefully for the Leafs, next season will be a step forward.
 
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Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
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Frustrating season of spinning our wheels. This was a lazy team who never showed a killer instinct or a desire to be anything more than "good".

Team has the potential to be great, but they need to commit and they didn't do it. Hope it's a learning experiences but you can only say that so much
 
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Loosie

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Jun 14, 2011
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Can't have so much money tied up in AM, JT, MM and WN.
The first three aren't going anywhere

We can only hope PM retires
Dubas and Babcock aren't on the same page, and Babcock is just the wrong fit for this team
Gardiner - he chokes in big games

PM needs to go on LTIR instead of retiring so the Leafs can get some cap relief on his contract.
 

DarkKnight

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Quality thoughts as always, DarkKnight.

I'll credit the Leafs for not allowing themselves to be in the position of potentially letting the Boston PP decide Game 7. Where was that discipline to stay out of the sin bin in Game 6 though? Toronto's own PP unfortunately didn't convert on their Game 7 opportunities. The deficit they faced didn't seem overly insurmountable in the 2nd period. Yet, the 3rd period effort came off as listless or uninspired IMO.

Tough 1st period and game for Gardiner, but thankfully not to the extent of a year ago. Wish Andersen prevented that first Boston goal in particular, but giving practically any goalie only one goal in support is asking for too much. The Kadri suspension definitely had an impact on the team's lines. Whether Nylander could have switched with Kapanen at some point is going to stay an unknown, as the need at centre was too much to contemplate otherwise.

It was a season of stalled progress. Same third place in the Atlantic regular season finish, same first round playoff loss postseason finish. Hurts to have had Boston on the ropes with that 3-2 series lead without having the ability to put it away.

Obviously hope to be wrong, but I don't think that one, single move quick fix to transform the Leafs into a Cup winner exists. There are going to be changes, whether through trade and/or free agency and/or promotions from the Marlies, and for a variety of reasons (cap, natural progression of things, to have a different look, etc.)

Enough blame to go around without laying it at any one Leaf's feet (player or coach), but three straight seasons with playoffs is still something to build upon. The playoffs have a different look to them on a number of fronts this season. There's even a 2nd round series featuring two teams that missed out entirely last season. If Carolina wins tonight, there will be two of them. One season can bring a lot of change. Hopefully for the Leafs, next season will be a step forward.
"Stalled progress" is a good way to put it.
 
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DarkKnight

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Jan 17, 2017
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Frustrating season of spinning our wheels. This was a lazy team who never showed a killer instinct or a desire to be anything more than "good".

Team has the potential to be great, but they need to commit and they didn't do it. Hope it's a learning experiences but you can only say that so much
Only caveat with "lazy", we did seem locked in by Christmas, even as a fan I was just waiting for the playoffs to start the entire second half.
 
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Loosie

The Eternal Optimist
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The Kadri discussion needs to happen, and I hate it.

He's a good player on a good contract, if we trade him our centre depth is horrendous (unless we get someone back). If we try and trade him now we'd be selling low because of the suspension.

I want his talent on this team, but I don't trust him to not do something stupid in next year's playoffs and once again not be here.
 

Nineteen67

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You'd be selling low no matter how you try to spin it, not a prudent decision in the least. Even the biggest Nylander detractors never imagined the nightmare production that was this season. Trading now would be a panic move and likely for 75 cents on the dollar, at best.

They wouldn’t do that. If they trade him for fair value then it’s certainly a viable option, if not preferred.
 

Randy Randerson

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Jul 28, 2016
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this is the stage of the rebuild/compete cycle where teams that followed the same blueprint as us started to have real success, Chicago won a cup with Kane and Toews on their ELC's.

I'm usually a very optimistic person, but if the Leafs don't do serious damage in the playoffs next year, with the young core all in their primes and the bulk of the cap commitments made, it might be time to rebuild again - that would mean this core is just not good enough despite what they look like on paper, and we wouldn't have the money or the high draft picks to supplement them. This could be really bad.
 
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DarkKnight

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The Kadri discussion needs to happen, and I hate it.

He's a good player on a good contract, if we trade him our centre depth is horrendous (unless we get someone back). If we try and trade him now we'd be selling low because of the suspension.

I want his talent on this team, but I don't trust him to not do something stupid in next year's playoffs and once again not be here.
I don't think you can trade a good third line C on that contract. He really do let us down this year though. In fact, that suspension may have cost us the series, it effectively neutered our third line and depth up front was our advantage.
 
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Clark4Ever

What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Oct 10, 2010
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I thought we played well enough to win last night, but it's extremely difficult to overcome multiple mental errors that gifts the opposition a couple of goals in a game 7. Freddy was great for most of the series but the first goal was inexcusable. Gardiner once again cost us in the most crucial moments and he shouldn't have been out there in the first place.

On the balance of play, that game should have been tied late in the 3rd period at the very least, and it's a shame the season had to end on that note. I think we deserved better.

That being said, we missed a golden opportunity to close it out in game 6, and we paid for it dearly.
 

SoVi3t

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Sep 16, 2009
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The Kadri discussion needs to happen, and I hate it.

There is no discussion, he has to go. He has been getting steadily worse as the years progress, and every time he gets in the playoffs he loses his mind and handicaps us. Get rid of him, there is no benefit to having him.

There are a few players we have to understand do NOT help our cause. I don't care what Gardiner's stats are during the regular season or in his career. Every playoffs he crumbles under pressure, makes insanely bad mistakes, and just compare his compete level to Morgan Rielly. It's not even close.

We've given several players multiple chances. Enough is enough. Get rid of them, and then figure if we can salvage Nylander or if he has to go too.
 
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DarkKnight

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They wouldn’t do that. If they trade him for fair value then it’s certainly a viable option, if not preferred.
The value argument, one thing to keep in mind after July 1st he becomes incredibly attractive "real money" wise. I'm saying you trade him no matter, but if a decent opportunity comes and you can get some cap relief, I'd consider it for sure.

There wasn't a soul on here who felt the "big three" would cost us near what they will after Marner cashes in. Factor in JT and maybe you do have to make some hard decisions moving forward.

Nylander traded is an option for me, he still hasn't shown he's a true core piece. He looks a 5 mil player.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
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We knew we were playing the Bruins, barring some miracle.
Sorry, didn't see the edit.

That's fine to say we were playing the B's but we played our way out of home ice and really didn't ramp up going in to the playoffs either. It showed a lack of professionalism for most of this team and it's the exact type of problem we saw in the playoffs. Inability to bear down and simply execute.
 

DarkKnight

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Jan 17, 2017
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I thought we played well enough to win last night, but it's extremely difficult to overcome multiple mental errors that gifts the opposition a couple of goals in a game 7. Freddy was great for most of the series but the first goal was inexcusable. Gardiner once again cost us in the most crucial moments and he shouldn't have been out there in the first place.

On the balance of play, that game should have been tied late in the 3rd period at the very least, and it's a shame the season had to end on that note. I think we deserved better.

That being said, we missed a golden opportunity to close it out in game 6, and we paid for it dearly.
Agreed, Game 6 was our moment.

5 v 5 we're a great team and we proved it again this series. Special teams killed us, we wouldn't even have needed a Game 7 had we executed in those areas.
 
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