Season Ticket Holder Discussion Thread: Pt 4

Sanchez

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Jan 18, 2006
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3 Thursday games and cans of beer for $5 only till the end of the 1st intermission. Cash only and at select places on concourse. Pretty lame if you ask me.
 
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ThePhoenixx

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IIRC the 50 goes to the people selling the 50-50 like EMHA (Edmonton Minor Hockey) that sort of thing. I think a few go to the Oilers Foundation but they should have no trouble via corporate sponsors topping up anything they may miss those nights I would think.

Bottom line if you have a building 2/3rds full your 50-50 isn’t going to be the same as if it were full. Upping the payout brings in more fans and may actually increase the payout than if it were a normal 50-50.

In the end you deposit dollars into bank accounts not percentages.

So the answer is yes. They are taking from a charity to entice more people to attend.

They could have added some of their own profits to the 50/50 to entice fans. I'm not sure why you are defending this decision. It is a poor one.
 

5 Mins 4 Ftg

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So the answer is yes. They are taking from a charity to entice more people to attend.

They could have added some of their own profits to the 50/50 to entice fans. I'm not sure why you are defending this decision. It is a poor one.

First neither of us know how it will work toward the charity. Second - It’s simple business. On the face of it the percentage is less but potentially draws far more people who will buy more to make the actual dollars to the charity far more than anticipated under less than perfect conditions (ie a full building).

Anyway I posted what I thought was some interesting and cool promotions for people who attend the games as per this thread, but as usual this forum craps all over anything the Oilers do with respect to things like this so I won’t bother next time.

Honestly this thread should just be closed and locked. Posting anything remotely positive in this thread is just an exercise to get beaten on.
 

ThePhoenixx

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First neither of us know how it will work toward the charity. Second - It’s simple business. On the face of it the percentage is less but potentially draws far more people who will buy more to make the actual dollars to the charity far more than anticipated under less than perfect conditions (ie a full building).

Anyway I posted what I thought was some interesting and cool promotions for people who attend the games as per this thread, but as usual this forum craps all over anything the Oilers do with respect to things like this so I won’t bother next time.

Honestly this thread should just be closed and locked. Posting anything remotely positive in this thread is just an exercise to get beaten on.

You call my post an over-reaction?

I like all the other promotions. Perhaps I should have said that. I simply asked a question and then logically followed the answer.

Also, your post was not about season tickets.

One last query. The reasoning you used to to explain taking money from the 50/50 charity (that wasn't even introduced by them) is that more people will be there and buy more 50/50 tickets. Will the Oilers throw in the extra profits from the beer, tickets, etc. they sell because of their choice at the expense of a charity?

This really sounds like another Katz is sick and MIA while Bobby is worried about the numbers. He obviously didn't think it through.

Am I supposed to go to the game and be happy that one person will benefit with a bigger payout instead of the hundreds or thousands that would have benefited from the charity money instead?

Surely that now I have made myself clear you can see the PR problem this represents.
 
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5 Mins 4 Ftg

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You call my post an over-reaction?

I like all the other promotions. Perhaps I should have said that. I simply asked a question and then logically followed the answer.

Also, your post was not about season tickets.

One last query. The reasoning you used to to explain taking money from the 50/50 charity (that wasn't even introduced by them) is that more people will be there and buy more 50/50 tickets. Will the Oilers throw in the extra profits from the beer, tickets, etc. they sell because of their choice at the expense of a charity?

This really sounds like another Katz is sick and MIA while Bobby is worried about the numbers. He obviously didn't think it through.

Am I supposed to go to the game and be happy that one person will benefit with a bigger payout instead of the hundreds or thousands that would have benefited from the charity money instead?

Surely that now I have made myself clear you can see the PR problem this represents.

I never said you over reacted.

Finally you seem to be missing the point that the charity will make more money via the promotion than without it. Not sure your getting that.

Anyway I am out of this thread. Cheers.
 

ThePhoenixx

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I never said you over reacted.

Finally you seem to be missing the point that the charity will make more money via the promotion than without it. Not sure your getting that.

Anyway I am out of this thread. Cheers.

That is one enormous leap of logic. Cavernous. I guess the numbers will speak for themselves.

So you know, if they had announced they were doing this a few times during the season and the Oilers would personally top up the missing 10 to 20% I would actively search for and go to every one of those games and buy a mittful of 50/50 tickets.

The feeling of goodwill would be worth the few hundred K they may have to pay out.
 

jeffff

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The charity would have to sell 66% more tickets than normal to yield the same return. That is a fairly substantial increase...but who knows??

100 tickets sold with 50/50 split. Charity 50, purchaser 50

166 tickets sold with 30/70 split, Charity 50, purchaser 116

So if an average 50/50 night is $60000.

For the charity to receive 60K...The winner would get a 140K....that is a huge 50/50.
 
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bone

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For the 50/50 promo, I like what the Eskimos did better. Just seed the money and everyone benefits.

That said, the organization running the 50/50 doesn't even get close to 50%. Likely closer to 20% where the rest goes into the Edmonton Oilers Community Foundation, which likely generates a bunch of tax breaks for the Edmonton Oilers Entertainment Group, so they've been benefitting from it, likely all along. This promo likely impacts how much they benefit as a result but omits the fact that the foundation also eats a shortfall.
 

madmutter

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IIRC the 50 goes to the people selling the 50-50 like EMHA (Edmonton Minor Hockey) that sort of thing. I think a few go to the Oilers Foundation but they should have no trouble via corporate sponsors topping up anything they may miss those nights I would think.

Bottom line if you have a building 2/3rds full your 50-50 isn’t going to be the same as if it were full. Upping the payout brings in more fans and may actually increase the payout than if it were a normal 50-50.

In the end you deposit dollars into bank accounts not percentages.
I'm pretty sure that while 50% does go to charity the organization supplying the volunteers for that game's 50/50 gets a flat rate payout that is far less than the amount raised ($8000 is the number I recall but I'm not certain), the remainder of the charity portion goes to the Oiler's Community Foundation.

I do think you're right that a higher split will make for bigger pots. I would bet (pun intended) that the funds raised will be higher on games with better odds. It seems like a few thousand extra fans show up for Esks games when there's a carryover so there's definitely enthusiasm for this kind of thing.
 

CanmoreMike

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#YEG
For the 50/50 promo, I like what the Eskimos did better. Just seed the money and everyone benefits.

That said, the organization running the 50/50 doesn't even get close to 50%. Likely closer to 20% where the rest goes into the Edmonton Oilers Community Foundation, which likely generates a bunch of tax breaks for the Edmonton Oilers Entertainment Group, so they've been benefitting from it, likely all along. This promo likely impacts how much they benefit as a result but omits the fact that the foundation also eats a shortfall.

I’ve heard the same thing.

My understanding is that in 2011/12 when the new 50/50 system was introduced and the pots grew in size the Oilers capped what the assisting charity could collect. Before a prize would be about $35-50K and the charity would collect 1/4 of the pot, Oilers foundation collected another 1/4 of the pot and 1/2 would go to the ticket winner.

When the pots grew the Oilers capped the charity’s collection at $25K (don’t quote me but something like that) and whatever was left was what they kept.

Theoretically the Oilers might be giving the participating charity a guaranteed amount of, say, $25K and if 30% of the pot is underwhelming it’s the Oilers that take the hit and not the charity.
 
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RadDude

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Dec 14, 2007
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I’ve heard the same thing.

My understanding is that in 2011/12 when the new 50/50 system was introduced and the pots grew in size the Oilers capped what the assisting charity could collect. Before a prize would be about $35-50K and the charity would collect 1/4 of the pot, Oilers foundation collected another 1/4 of the pot and 1/2 would go to the ticket winner.

When the pots grew the Oilers capped the charity’s collection at $25K (don’t quote me but something like that) and whatever was left was what they kept.

Theoretically the Oilers might be giving the participating charity a guaranteed amount of, say, $25K and if 30% of the pot is underwhelming it’s the Oilers that take the hit and not the charity.

The Charities and volunteers get $6000 put 25% of anything over $100,000 in sales. The remainder of the pot goes to cover costs and licensing of running the 50/50, with the remainder going to the EOCF. The money brought in by the 70/30 split will still be making more than enough to fund the charities and volunteers... it will be the charities, events and admin that the EOCF fund that will lose out for those few games.

Foundation Programs
 

CanmoreMike

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#YEG
The Charities and volunteers get $6000 put 25% of anything over $100,000 in sales. The remainder of the pot goes to cover costs and licensing of running the 50/50, with the remainder going to the EOCF. The money brought in by the 70/30 split will still be making more than enough to fund the charities and volunteers... it will be the charities, events and admin that the EOCF fund that will lose out for those few games.

Foundation Programs

Just so I am clear the charity is guaranteed $6000 and if the pot hits $150K then they get another $12.5K.

Am I reading that right?
 

RadDude

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Dec 14, 2007
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Just so I am clear the charity is guaranteed $6000 and if the pot hits $150K then they get another $12.5K.

Am I reading that right?

Correct, if the pot was 150K the winner would take home 75K, the Charity would take home 18.5K, and the remaining 56.5k would go to the costs and EOCF. I'm guessing if it was a 70/30 split the Winner would take home 105K, the Charity would still get their 18.5K and the EOCF would take home 26.5K.

So in the end this promotion shouldn't cost the the Volunteering Charity anything.... and the Oilers anything as well.
 

ThePhoenixx

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I’ve heard the same thing.

My understanding is that in 2011/12 when the new 50/50 system was introduced and the pots grew in size the Oilers capped what the assisting charity could collect. Before a prize would be about $35-50K and the charity would collect 1/4 of the pot, Oilers foundation collected another 1/4 of the pot and 1/2 would go to the ticket winner.

When the pots grew the Oilers capped the charity’s collection at $25K (don’t quote me but something like that) and whatever was left was what they kept.

Theoretically the Oilers might be giving the participating charity a guaranteed amount of, say, $25K and if 30% of the pot is underwhelming it’s the Oilers that take the hit and not the charity.
Thanks.

I have often wondered and heard conflicting stories on how the money raised is split up.

Thanks for the info.

The Charities and volunteers get $6000 put 25% of anything over $100,000 in sales. The remainder of the pot goes to cover costs and licensing of running the 50/50, with the remainder going to the EOCF. The money brought in by the 70/30 split will still be making more than enough to fund the charities and volunteers... it will be the charities, events and admin that the EOCF fund that will lose out for those few games.

Foundation Programs

Interesting.

Thanks.
 

glendroid

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Mar 17, 2009
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Does anybody remember when the size up from the smallest soda became $7.50? I don't either.
 

Rkhtsen

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Jan 15, 2016
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The Charities and volunteers get $6000 put 25% of anything over $100,000 in sales. The remainder of the pot goes to cover costs and licensing of running the 50/50, with the remainder going to the EOCF.

Foundation Programs

thanks for the info. I always assumed the charity gets the other 50% or a % close to half. From the non playoff games I went to last year, i recall most of the games are around $120,000 total pot so the charity would get $6k + (25% of 20k) 5k = $11k. that's less than 10% of the pot and they need to supply 60 volunteers for 5 hours each. Pretty sad if you ask me, I will probably forego any more 50/50 purchases and donate more at work. At least my work matches
 

bone

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thanks for the info. I always assumed the charity gets the other 50% or a % close to half. From the non playoff games I went to last year, i recall most of the games are around $120,000 total pot so the charity would get $6k + (25% of 20k) 5k = $11k. that's less than 10% of the pot and they need to supply 60 volunteers for 5 hours each. Pretty sad if you ask me, I will probably forego any more 50/50 purchases and donate more at work. At least my work matches

If I remember correctly the workers don't get any parking or such either. When our kids' sport associations show these as an option to fund raise, I challenge it as it isn't an amazing return particularly on weekday games vs. non-rivals for the amount of labour that is required.
 

Rkhtsen

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Jan 15, 2016
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Did anyone else who canceled their season tickets get a call from an Oilers rep recently and get offered 2 tickets to a hockey game?
 

T-Funk

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Oct 15, 2006
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Did anyone else who canceled their season tickets get a call from an Oilers rep recently and get offered 2 tickets to a hockey game?
They call me from time to time. Haven't really listened to any messages lol.
 

Nonamee

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Sep 2, 2016
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Did anyone else who canceled their season tickets get a call from an Oilers rep recently and get offered 2 tickets to a hockey game?
Sort of. I've had a rep leave several voicemail messages for me. When the rookies were playing Calgary in Red Deer they invited to take me to the game (I live in Central Alberta); it didn't work out for me to go but I was pretty happy when I saw the results - 1 nothing loss in overtime. Post game comments weren't too positive either.

The rep also asked if I received the email from Mr. Katz essentially asking for my business back, hoping they could earn my business back. I indicated to them that I haven't received most, if not all, of their marketing emails for about a year. They said that they would resend it to me I said that would be great I'd like to read it

That was three days ago. They sent an email asking me to check my spam etc. folders first ... I indicated again that I have never received it ... and as of this moment I still have yet to receive it.

A friend of mine took me to the preseason game against the Canucks on Thursday. Sitting there watching and the in-game experience just reminded me of all the multitude of reasons I'm very happy that I didn't renew my seats this year.

Took a look at available tickets and it's quite impressive. Numerous primary (not third party) seats in virtually every section available for virtually every game. A plethora of group tickets in almost all seating zones. They just released more seats too boot.

It won't be difficult for those that would like to attend to get tickets of their choice.

There were several last straws for me but ultimately I drew the line when the Oilers started selling comparable seats for less than I paid as a season seat holder.

There's no looking back for me.
 

CanmoreMike

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Feb 27, 2002
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#YEG
There were several last straws for me but ultimately I drew the line when the Oilers started selling comparable seats for less than I paid as a season seat holder.

For the record Stu McDonald (or whatever his name is) told me at the STH breakfast where Bob Nicholson threw Reider under the bus that that promotion was a huge mistake and they won’t be doing that again.

And they are offering all seats in house to STH at STH price.

Not saying you made a mistake or anything. Just offering some clarity.
 

Drivesaitl

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For the record Stu McDonald (or whatever his name is) told me at the STH breakfast where Bob Nicholson threw Reider under the bus that that promotion was a huge mistake and they won’t be doing that again.

And they are offering all seats in house to STH at STH price.

Not saying you made a mistake or anything. Just offering some clarity.
I was here saying it was a huge mistake and huge slap in the face to STH when the half price off tickets sale occurred. Which it was, and so blatantly.

It was simply a cash grab by the Oilers to try to recoup something for seats that were unsold and available. That they say sorry later to something that was obviously disrespecting STH is window dressing.

You can apologize for mistakes. But apologizing for intentional cash grab is a bit unsettling. I'd almost prefer they just be honest about their mercenary ways. Stu McDonald has been around forever and knows better. Wouldn't surprise me if he was told to offer the tickets on firesale.

Yeah they won't be doing THAT again, but they'll think up something else like over pricing all tickets or ticket pacs or pouring 16oz into 20oz beer glasses or raising prices on booze and refreshments again.
 
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Drivesaitl

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Re; the debate about the 50/50 part I would encourage a look at the following, and its always better to give directly to such charitable interests as United Way, or Sign of Hope who have much better records of monies collected going directly to charity.

https://www.charityintelligence.ca/images/ProSports/Giving-to-Pro-Sports-Teams-report.pdf

Oilers years ago had very poor ratings but have improved in recent years but since they've been outed several times.

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/oilers-community-foundation-given-c-charitability-grade-1.4158307

Most importantly since CI (Charity Intelligence Canada) have been doing these reports pro sports have had to do a much better job of managing these funds and insuring efficiency of allocation to charities because in part there is now watch dogging going on. Doesn't say much about the pro sports orgs themselves that they required third party reviews to get better at allocating monies collected under the guise of charity, to the actual charities..
 

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